Hi everyone!

Alright, so from what I know the sooner you start HRT, the better the results and a lot of the time, you may not even need FFS to be passable in society. Obviously this is very appealing and would be amazing. I was wondering in general what is the age in general when hormones have a lesser affect on a person, specifically on their face? I am 20 years old and a college student and fairly skinny and am hopeful that I will be passable after I get on hormones for a while. What do you guys think? Should I be prepared to save for FFS, or is there a good chance I could pass if I am early enough in my life?

Thank you all,

<3 Emma

Okay so if my goal is to truly look like a passing beautiful woman on the outside as well, then I should start saving for FFS? Because I really want to be passing, whether I have makeup on or not.

Thank you both

Love Emma

Your age is a benefit. Young 20's transition well, face, body and voice.

Quote from: zaliel on September 23, 2012, 11:54:01 AM
Okay so if my goal is to truly look like a passing beautiful woman on the outside as well, then I should start saving for FFS? Because I really want to be passing, whether I have makeup on or not.

Thank you both

Love Emma

it's do able to save it

I save enough for Dr. Cardenas in 1 yr at minimum wage (total cost will be like 7 k after airplane ticket).  for package 2. http://www.transop.com/FFS_Pricing.html

If I were I would save up too 10 k before getting FFS, so you could have some emergency funds when you're recovering.

Quote from: Bella on September 23, 2012, 11:43:31 AM
I'll just say it like it is:

I've never seen a transgendered woman who in my opinion wouldn't benefit from FFS. Sure, some might not *NEED* it.. but in my opinion they do. In most cases of not NEEDING it, that's still only after applying make-up. If you want to pass completely, without make-up, I'd say FFS (among other things) are a necessity.

I have to disagree with this. In my opinion, not all transgendered women need to have FSS to "pass." Alot of transgendered women I know don't even use make-up and have never had any FSS and they appear to me nothing else than a woman. Which is the point. You don't need any of this to be what you are. But of course, I respect those who feel like they need to and want to do it. That is perfectly fine. But I don't think people should be pressured into looking a certain way to "pass" as a woman. If you are a woman, you are a woman, no matter how many FFS you've had or how much make-up you put on. Saying all transgendered woman need it is so enforcing those stereotypes on what a woman should look like, and I don't think that's right at all.

But that is just my opinion.

Quote from: Bella on September 24, 2012, 06:16:07 AM
You are completely free to disagree. I don't think most of the women getting FFS are feeling any pressure to look "a certain" way. I think most of them just want to remove the masculinity from their faces (which is completely understandable), which in turn will allow their feminine beauty to shine through. And as I said, ffs is just one of the things people *need*. A lot of trans women don't feel they need to work on their voice, way of speaking, nor their mannerisms, and that's their prerogative, but don't expect too much when you're not willing to give too much. FFS is a precious tool that's helped so many women be the woman they want to be, and I feel there's so much negativity towards on this forum.

Of course, if they feel the need to have it, of course they should. You should be able to look the way you want, and I have no prejudice towards those who do, it is their own choice. I still think that the whole "masculinty" and "feminine" issues is something society has created on how you should look based on if you are a man or a woman. And I don't blame people who want to fall into those ideal standards, but I think it's something people should be aware of.

FSS surely is something that has helped a lot of women, but I sometimes question the actual need to have it. Does everyone really need those excessive surgeries or is it something they unconsciously believe they need? I don't know. I still like to wonder about it.

Quote from: Bella on September 24, 2012, 06:35:26 AM
Well those things are actually based on what testosterone does to the skull (most of the time). Getting a perfect, straight, tiny nose from FFS might not exactly be purely feminizing. I see what you mean. But removing a heave browridge and square, tall chin is. I've had a feminizing rhinoplasty (i.e. a nose job where no one could tell. It still looked like my nose, just a feminine version). Now I want an aesthetic rhinoplasty, this time it's purely cosmetic, and comes from my obsession with perfection, and has nothing to do with my looking like a woman. Excessive? Perhaps.. but being beautiful really, truly makes me happy.

Then that's what you should do, and what everyone should do if it makes them happy. Because in the end, isn't this all about being happy with who you are?

this was probably already mentioned (if so, I apologize)

There is really no set age of needing FFS. Some may need it, some may benefit from it, some may not need it all.

True, one tends to have more masculine features as they get older (through testosterone) but this is in complete various and unpredictable stages for anyone and it is more to do with family genetics than your age.

I started to transition in my mid 30s. I don't think I need FFS as I never really had an "been outed" situation. So age isn't really a factor.

I think it has to do with each individual person and the individual assessment of whatever facial features they feel need to change.

the only thing I would be careful about is thinking that FFS will be the cure of your woes. Especially if you don't need it and want it anyway because you think that will make you more beautiful.

To each their own. Just be careful with it..we had a member here last year who was absolutely addicted to plastic surgery as she thought the secret to happiness and beauty was behind how many procedures she could get.

Yes, surgery can certainly alleviate stress and depression (hence, why many of us have SRS) but there is a such thing as too much of a good thing and one must be aware that surgery isn't the answer to everything...just a stepping stone to a greater acceptance of oneself.

Quote from: Annah on September 24, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
the only thing I would be careful about is thinking that FFS will be the cure of your woes. Especially if you don't need it and want it anyway because you think that will make you more beautiful.

To each their own. Just be careful with it..we had a member here last year who was absolutely addicted to plastic surgery as she thought the secret to happiness and beauty was behind how many procedures she could get.

Yes, surgery can certainly alleviate stress and depression (hence, why many of us have SRS) but there is a such thing as too much of a good thing and one must be aware that surgery isn't the answer to everything...just a stepping stone to a greater acceptance of oneself.

oh yea, sysm29 had a whole big post about it. Can we provide a link or is that shady..?

Quote from: Bella on September 23, 2012, 11:43:31 AM
I'll just say it like it is:

I've never seen a transgendered woman who in my opinion wouldn't benefit from FFS. Sure, some might not *NEED* it.. but in my opinion they do. In most cases of not NEEDING it, that's still only after applying make-up. If you want to pass completely, without make-up, I'd say FFS (among other things) are a necessity.

totally disagree with this...this tells me you have a very limited exposure to the transgender community and because the ones you saw did not pass, you assume everyone is like that.

I do pass completely...yes, without makeup on. My avatar pic, I am wearing a very light powdered foundation and mascara with a thin eye liner. That's it. Alice Cooper puts on the same makeup and he doesn't look like that.

People feeling the need to have FFS is fine and I can understand that. But don't presume every transgender needs it. Hell, you've probably walked past dozens of us and never realized we are transgender...that trandar doesn't work all the time. We have a transgender girl in our church. She has no idea I am trans...and I preach every Sunday.

To say everyone needs FFS is just silliness. Pretty soon, with that type of logic you'll be telling Cis women they need FFS.

Quote from: Annah on September 24, 2012, 12:50:49 PM
totally disagree with this...this tells me you have a very limited exposure to the transgender community and because the ones you saw did not pass, you assume everyone is like that.

I do pass completely...yes, without makeup on. My avatar pic, I am wearing a very light powdered foundation and mascara with a thin eye liner. That's it. Alice Cooper puts on the same makeup and he doesn't look like that.

To say everyone needs FFS is just silliness. Pretty soon, with that type of logic you'll be telling Cis women they need FFS.

Agree. I think some people get so caught up in catching flaws, that they start to lose their grip on reality.

Then they end up looking like a Bratz doll...and also a ->-bleeped-<-.

Quote from: TessaM on September 24, 2012, 01:11:15 PM
Yep yep yep
There is a feminist inside me that wants to scream how these surgeries are just reflections of how our patriarchal mysogynistic society has placed unfair standards on women and vanity. But wtv I want I want I want!!!

lol, I don't think you're going to go THAT crazy, you don't strike me as the type .

The way I see it, we sometimes need to overcompensate with FFS because of damage caused by T that cannot be changed. Change what we can, accept what we can't blah etc...

Quote from: Ave on September 24, 2012, 12:57:26 PM
Agree. I think some people get so caught up in catching flaws, that they start to lose their grip on reality.

Then they end up looking like a Bratz doll...and also a ->-bleeped-<-.

I remember talking to one TG and she was pointing "that's a ->-bleeped-<-, that's a ->-bleeped-<-, that girl over there is a ->-bleeped-<-."

Crazy thing was...all of those girls she pointed to were ciswomen.

She was losing touch on reality because she was so focused on how a "real woman" walks, looks, talks, and reacts.

Quote from: Annah on September 24, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
the only thing I would be careful about is thinking that FFS will be the cure of your woes. Especially if you don't need it and want it anyway because you think that will make you more beautiful.

To each their own. Just be careful with it..we had a member here last year who was absolutely addicted to plastic surgery as she thought the secret to happiness and beauty was behind how many procedures she could get.

Yes, surgery can certainly alleviate stress and depression (hence, why many of us have SRS) but there is a such thing as too much of a good thing and one must be aware that surgery isn't the answer to everything...just a stepping stone to a greater acceptance of oneself.

Anna, clearly your idea of passing differs from mine. Because it appears you seem to claim that you fully pass in a work and personal setting. I do not mean to be disrespectful or hurtful, but judging by your youtube videos and photographs, I would most certainly be compelled to express, that you would greatly benefit from Facial Feminization Surgery. Although I do agree, your bone structure is well 'diffused'.

Quote from: elle2011 on September 24, 2012, 11:57:24 PM
Anna, clearly your idea of passing differs from mine. Because it appears you seem to claim that you fully pass in a work and personal setting. I do not mean to be disrespectful or hurtful, but judging by your youtube videos and photographs, I would most certainly be compelled to express, that you would greatly benefit from Facial Feminization Surgery. Although I do agree, your bone structure is well 'diffused'.

Glad you said that...MTF  on the internet who claim to be 100% passable as  woman are usually not (at all) but are shouting down (in a weird, fake voice...) but they are passable as MTF..

Talking about other MTF 'losing touch on reality'....

Well I don't think anyone should be attacking each other saying who is or is not passable. I happen to think she looks beautiful and looks like a regular girl but that is my opinion. My original question was more regarding if it mattered to get FFS when you were younger or not and I really appreciate all the feedback that I got. We have to take care of each other and not put each other down. I love you all and thank you again for your help

<3 Emma

No, I just *hate* reading 'advice' from  self proclaimed '100% passable' MTF on this matter when they are actually not 100% passable.

I would call it 'under false pretense'..

I hate the fact people need to be "passable" in general. Why do people have to look a certain way to be a woman or a man? I know plenty of cisgender women who don't fall into this stereotypical look that a woman must have.

Maybe because the idea of what someone "should look like" is ridiculous. What about stop trying to enforce those stereotypes? Perhaps we should start there.