I understand the desire to change the language. Non-binary pronouns would make life a lot easier.

But what I'd really like is to change people's expectations of the pronouns we already have. Have "he" be allowed to mean some of the things that "she" now means, and vice-versa. Why can't I be a "he" with large expanses of female real estate in my soul, without having to invent a new pronoun to refer to me?

Quote from: agfrommd on April 24, 2012, 06:37:49 PMBut what I'd really like is to change people's expectations of the pronouns we already have. Have "he" be allowed to mean some of the things that "she" now means, and vice-versa. Why can't I be a "he" with large expanses of female real estate in my soul, without having to invent a new pronoun to refer to me?

Hmm... very intriguing idea.  But something in me balks at words like "he" being used on me, and I don't know if I can change that.  Especially since I know the definition won't have changed in other people's minds.

I am going to continue to be called "he" by most people for now though, since I don't feel up to trying to get everybody to use some weird pronouns they've never heard of.  It's an uphill battle that will probably get me labeled as weird and annoying, and I don't think my meek little self can manage it.

Nor will it mean 'person of third/another gender' in their minds, extra pronouns only mean 'awkward person who thinks the existing ones aren't good enough for them', even to me - and I'm a person of another gender.

Person/People

some times i'm really glad i speak a language that doesn't have gender specific pronouns. i once experienced hearing a guy speaking of some person he'd met, with an interpreter translating to norwegian. and since the default pronoun still seems to be the equivalent of "he" in norwegian, after a few sentences the guy who told the story just had to point out that this person was a woman. just to make the translation right. if it wasn't being translated he'd never have felt any need to specify the gender, since it was irrelevant to the story

Another Androgyne I know, actually the only other Androgyne I know, IRL, recently invented the word "Androgynads" to refer to xir... crotch bits during a tabletop session.
We laughed for about 20 minutes straight about it, but in the end decided we're going to keep it.

8^P

That's a bit splendid .

As a long time sci-fi fan, I'm often guilty of using the term "android". I dunno. It's kind of funny and works for me. I suppose in writing and talking, too, for that matter, I enjoy creating ways to circumvent titles or gender at all. It's pretty easy, really. Instead of "excuse me ma'am" say "excuse me". Instead of "who is shoe?" ask "who is that?" I think it's possible to modify your thinking in such a way as to pretty much eliminate gender pronouns, but it does take some thought.

I came across a webcomic that used the term gynoid for an android who'd chosen to transition from male to female body form. I liked this a lot, it being a fairly obvious point that android means man-like.

Quote from: BlueSloth on April 25, 2012, 02:00:42 AM
Hmm... very intriguing idea.  But something in me balks at words like "he" being used on me, and I don't know if I can change that.  Especially since I know the definition won't have changed in other people's minds.

I am going to continue to be called "he" by most people for now though, since I don't feel up to trying to get everybody to use some weird pronouns they've never heard of.  It's an uphill battle that will probably get me labeled as weird and annoying, and I don't think my meek little self can manage it.

I agree. Being referred to as male feels awkward and maybe even a bit demeaning for me, and I don't feel anymore comfortable with being called female than that.
I used to try to get people to call me an "it," but back then I was in the middle of what was, in my case, a sort of "I hate gender" tantrum. Nowadays there are no English-language pronouns that fit me... he, she, it or they... they all sound broken or impersonal and empty.

Online I refer to myself as hir/shi.

Perhaps the Spivak pronouns.

For the record, I hate Hir and most ad hoc gender neutral terms I've heard. They/them works just fine imo.

In non-binary company, I tend to use xe/xyr (though in my head, I pronounce the x like the j in the French Jacques, whereas most people pronounce it as a z). Otherwise I use she/her because they're the pronouns least likely to get me misgendered, even though woman is only part of my gender archipelago. A year ago, I found they really hard to use in the singular, and now it's second nature when talking about non-binary friends.

So Ze is pronounced "Z"?

Not if you're English . But yes, Ze is pronounced "zee", to rhyme with she and he.

"Zed" would be a good name.

I've recently been introduced to Ne as a neutral pronoun, and I'm warming to it.

Ne?

I just think...

Very strange (k)nights indeed.

In white satin.

The first time I heard the title, I thought it was Knights in White Satin, and I was a little disappointed when I discovered otherwise.  Not that the true title is bad either, but...