Transgender Issues: Outing Yourself Before the First Dance?

http://blogs.montrealgazette.com/2012/09/28/transgender-issues-outing-yourself-before-the-first-dance/
9/28/12
Jillian Page

A Montana newspaper has a report that should serve as a cautionary tale — and a reminder — to all trans people about the necessity of being upfront about themselves from the outset when it comes to dating or even dancing with a stranger.

The Missoulian report is about an incident involving a trans person and a guy who found out for himself — i.e. through touching — that the person he was getting, umm, close to had male bits. The report suggests that he didn't take it well, and there are assault charges pending against him.

I can't comment about who is right and who is wrong in this case. But trans people need to remember that some people just do not want to associate with them, no matter how "passable" and beautiful you might be. Sure, it sucks, but that is just the way it is.

"I can't comment about who is right and who is wrong in this case"? Seriously? It's an assault case. I think the physical violence makes it pretty clear who is wrong. Well, whatever, there go my last fragments of respect for Jillian Page.

Taking it from this angle is both realistic and one of the major reasons why I hate the word trans as it doesn't fit all of us.  Perhaps if people were taught not to be homophobic creeps the world would be a better place and a guy dancing with a lady that has male bits won't turn into a violent altercation.  I mean seriously there is a way to respectfully decline someone, its perfectly ok to not want to be with someone for many reasons but to go out and act with violence is  the real wrong here.

In reality she did not have to come out at all, it is just a dance.  Actually come out to what? That she is a girl? there is no other answer to that question.  I mean your really not going to tell someone you just met that you were born with a penis, its none of their business what goes on inside of your pants is not open for discussion.  Until you decide to get serious.

Seriously do we really need to tell everyone we are trans?

Its not that I think of myself as trans but that's what we are going to be grouped as once people know our medical history and I don't really care for how they may treat us once they know.
The whole idea to transition is to lead the life that makes us happy and if at every single encounter with some stranger do we really need to out ourself for something as simple as a dance. If it may get serious then I understand the need to out ourself but I think as human beings we deserve some love for ourselves and who we are and hence need to give ourselves a chance that we may find someone but probably not by looking for them. So at the very least some polite conversation to give the other person a chance to know who we really are would be the least we deserve.

For all we know we may have met our soulmates a long time ago and may not have realized it yet.

edit: the person who committed the assault was wrong and should be in prison there is no excuse for assaulting and trying to kill someone just because they are different

When did it become our responsibility to protect every idiot from facing his  autohomophobia? Men do this because they're terrified of being gay and then realized they're attracted to someone with testicles. Obviously in this reporter's part of the world, the appropriate response is not to face the fact that sexual orientation is complex but instead to beat the $#!+ out of a woman who probably just wants to feel pretty. Funny, this reporter would probably lambaste any guy who thought it was ok to hit a woman in any other circumstance.

Quote from: TessaM on September 29, 2012, 09:11:53 AM
I disagree with so much of the stuff she posts on her blog. She even said it was ok for the Quebec government to not grant change of gender marker for those who havent gone through surgery. Like seriously?
On another note tho, I can't help but have a soft spot for her. When I came out, my mom contacted her via internet about me, asking her personally if she knew of any endo's and psychologists in the Montreal area. She replied within 15 minutes. AND WITH A PHONE CALL, NOT AN EMAIL. So iuno...

She didn't used to be nearly so bad, but there seems to be this weird thing that happens to a lot of post-op women that makes them treat other kinds of trans folk as like another, lesser, species. Like post-op, they are and should be accepted as females through and through, but everyone else deserves an asterisk and all the trouble that comes with that.

I dunno why I haven't been infected yet. Maybe it is still coming.

Quote from: Sarah7 on September 29, 2012, 09:22:45 AM
She didn't used to be nearly so bad, but there seems to be this weird thing that happens to a lot of post-op women that makes them treat other kinds of trans folk as like another, lesser, species. Like post-op, they are and should be accepted as females through and through, but everyone else deserves an asterisk and all the trouble that comes with that.

I dunno why I haven't been infected yet. Maybe it is still coming.

Lack of acceptance comes from all corners. More important is the fact that acceptance comes from all corners. Each of us chooses the kind of person we want to be. Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 29, 2012, 10:11:45 AM
Lack of acceptance comes from all corners. More important is the fact that acceptance comes from all corners. Each of us chooses the kind of person we want to be. Hugs, Devlyn

Is that entirely true? I mean, I don't have the genital hangup so much. But I KNOW that I treat trans people, especially trans women, better based on their youth and passability (if relevant) and/or attractiveness. Because those things are most tightly connected to my own fears around transition.

I mean, I guess it's good that I'm at least aware of it. But I'm not sure I can entirely get passed that. Bias is rarely an easy thing to deal with.

People will get over their issue with "the gays" and still have an issue with "those gays" (i.e. femme-y guys and butch girls). You don't just wake up one day and go "I'm going to treat everyone equally" because that isn't really a thing. It's hard and it's a process. And most people aren't even aware of / willing to admit to their bias.

Like I highly doubt Jillian Page is aware of what she's doing. And if anyone tells her, she's going to dismiss it as "well you just have a different opinion." And all opinions are equal right? Bleh.

The dance? No they don't get to know if they can't figure it out. A hug? Nah. Because telling them upfront tends to be relationship death, I would ease them into it eventually. However if they are going to chimp out over it, it's not going to matter when you tell them.

Quote from: Natasha on September 28, 2012, 11:44:27 PM
Sure, it sucks, but that is just the way it is.

This won't be popular but....

We can bitch and moan at the messenger but she is right, this is how some people will react on "discovery". Sure it's wrong but it -just is a fact- that in the world today if you play the stealth dating game, this can happen. Mainly if you start touching/sexually flirting and accepting of their advances. As far as "when did this become our responsibility?" I don't recall when this wasn't something that could happen playing the stealth dating game.

As far as this case, I have danced casually with guys and they aren't groping my crotch. I have to believe this was like some sort of slow dance/rubbing against each other sort of prelude to something sexual for him to do that. A causal dance at a club, you aren't close enough to each other to even touch.

All I can say is be careful out there.

I really am starting to wonder what kind of dance would have allowed or invited a guy to get that close or even try groping a girls genitals.

Its just sick, if its a dance where bodily contact was not required - then he should also be in for sexual assault as well.

Quote from: Alexia6 on September 29, 2012, 02:46:05 PM
Its just sick, if its a dance where bodily contact was not required - then he should also be in for sexual assault as well.

He is.

Quote from: Stephe on September 29, 2012, 02:10:01 PM
All I can say is be careful out there.

There is a huge line between "be careful" and victim-blaming.

Quote from: Sarah7 on September 29, 2012, 03:01:50 PM
There is a huge line between "be careful" and victim-blaming.

I'm not blaming the victim but there is also a huge line between being attacked for no reason and being stupid. It's why I said be careful.

So OK. How is this then: the world is wrong so don't bother telling a date you are trans because he shouldn't care. There is no risk in doing this because they should know we are female even if we do still have a few male parts.

Feel better now? I can join in with everyone else, be PC and tell people to ignore the dangers.. *sigh*

Quote from: Stephe on September 29, 2012, 03:32:51 PM
I'm not blaming the victim but there is also a huge line between being attacked for no reason and being stupid. It's why I said be careful.

So OK. How is this then: the world is wrong so don't bother telling a date you are trans because he shouldn't care. There is no risk in doing this because they should know we are female even if we do still have a few male parts.

Feel better now? I can join in with everyone else, be PC and tell people to ignore the dangers.. *sigh*

no, I agree with you. There are certain dangers that trans people have to be aware of, and if that means that you can't do el perreo(close up grinding), then you have to be aware of that.

But all of this wasn't specified, so we don't have anything to go on *shrugs*

Rejection by cisgendered people is a social problem. It's also their right to be bigoted and there's not much we can do about that. But assault?

Come on, once he crossed the line into assault, it was a crime. He was clearly the one in the wrong.

I could have understood (not approved but understood) if the guy simply said "um, not for me, I'm out of here." That's the ugliness of the transphobic social problem rearing its head. But as soon as he committed assault it was over the line, period.

Crossing the line is even caring at a dance.  How sex is so intertwined with our society is sickening at times.  As if every little cause, action, thing that is done is a means to sex.

Hence why a gay scout leader is casted away as if he were a pedophile when its obviously not true.

Hence why birth control is being debated as some kind of whore making super drug.

Hence why people question our sexuality as "Trans sexual" when that couldn't be further from the truth.

This guy is a louse, he shouldn't have tried groping this womans private area without clear consent.
If he'd restricted himself to verbal abuse he would have been just another jerk but making it a physical attack is disgusting.

This is a stark reminder to us al that we have to be extra carefull in public, many people don't care if we are trans but there's always the risk that we'll me "that jerk"