Ok, so this is something I'm struggling to get used to at the moment. Visually, I pass (or so people tell me) but what I'm wondering about is, when I'm walking down the street, minding my own business, people (men and women) tend to look me up and down quite often. I didn't ever notice this when I was presenting as male. It's really unnerving because I think, wtf are they reading me? Are they just looking at my clothes? Are the checking me out? Are they laughing to themselves at the poor/deluded/unfortunate etc etc trans person? In real life I don't really know many trans people and the friends I hang out with are all cis females. I asked them about it and they all give me the same answer, it's "no, they can't tell, they're just looking cause that's what happens to women all the time, people stare"
My problem is, of course, I don't know if they're just being nice or they're telling me the truth? What's a girl to do?
I guess my question here is, for anyone that's full time, was your experience similar? Do people just look at women more? Is this just a "normal" aspect of western culture? People stare at women?

Men are usually checking you out, Women are usually comparing themselves to you or admiring what you're wearing.

Don't sweat it.

When we begin we are hyper-sensitive about being "read".  And it is hard to get over that. Sometimes it is as Alyx said.  Sometimes it is because of our height, especially in heels.

Women always seem to be comparing themselves with other women.  And then there is the "smile".  Women smile at other women, as if to say 'Hi Sister".

Yes it can be unnerving at first, and it can take months, if not years, to get used to it. Think about it. I bet you check out other women as you pass them in the street. They know you're checking them out, especially if they're fashionably dressed.

We say we want to blend in, and then go out and buy something to wear which is really nice and... eye-catching!

Don't try to figure out what other people are thinking, you'll do your head in.

Men, will check you out if you're young and pretty. It goes as you get older unless, like me, you have FFS later in life, and then it comes back. I'm older and wiser now and I know what is happening when a man checks me out, because for a while they stopped.

I like it. Enjoy it while you can, Isabelle, because you'll miss it if and when it stops.

Quote from: Isabelle on September 29, 2012, 08:52:15 PM
I guess my question here is, for anyone that's full time, was your experience similar? Do people just look at women more? Is this just a "normal" aspect of western culture? People stare at women?

  Yes get used to it. You aren't being "read", people of both genders look at women. Guys never look at other guys, God forbid someone might think they are gay! And women don't look at guys for fear they might think she is coming onto them.

The other thing that women do that guys don't is they look and then smile, so just smile back. Or you can look and smile first. It's like girl code, being in the club. A "gurls rule, guys drool" kinda thing.

Guys head nod. They even head nod to women, a coy smile and then look away is how I respond. Don't head nod back

Anyway don't sweat this looking stuff, I've learned to enjoy it. If you really weren't passing someone would say something like "WTF" as they walk by etc. I got that when I know I wasn't lol. The other thing is if you are very unattractive, no one will look either, so that wouldn't be a good sign either.

I think that you should'nt be worrying about it. People tend to look more at women than at men. I remember the first day after i came out, i was sure that everybody i've seen on street could tell what i really am and i wasn't brave enough to make any eye contact and was looking on the ground any time someone looked at me. I think that we should just get used to it. It's really good to meet new people that don't remember you as a male. They could never guess that i was a boy and at first i was surprised that everyone was seeing me as a female. Also i have noticed that kids are much better in reading us. Sometimes some four years old girls or boys just come to me and ask me if i'm a boy or girl while their parents are only laughing and are sure that i'm a girl. Kids are smarter than adults in so many ways. Many friends of my parents who saw me after i started living as female, didn't even figured out that i was going through transition because usually i'm wearing very neutral clothes, but strangers who were standing nearby looked in a weird way at us when my parent's friends called me with my old name. Try to focus on the way men are looking at you. I think they're just find you attractive

Well, I don't dress out of the ordinary. I don't show much skin (certainly not my thighs :p ) my body is of healthy proportions so, I think I'm just going to have to put this down to me being neurotic and the fact that people stare at women. Thanks for the comments and insights everyone

Quote from: vivienne on September 30, 2012, 06:57:29 AM
How can you be sure that the parents aren't just acting because they don't want to hurt your feelings? Or confuse their kid? Try explaining what a transsexual is to a four year old, as a cis person/parent who may hardly understand him/herself, with the transsexual sitting right next to them, and the kid just being there.. It never happened to me that a kid asked me if I'm a boy or a girl, but if it would happen and the parents would say I'm a girl then I wouldn't assume that they're not aware of anything. But that's just me.

I am not transsexual. I am cis female, i just have some hormonal problems. All i said is that kids tend to see masculine and feminine features that adults can't see. Or maybe they're just more honest.

When I first presented myself as woman, the first thing I noticed was that more women watched me. Men also watch me, but women no longer avoid my eyes. Women do not stare at men, but some men stare at women.

It does not matter whether I pass or not.

You may see how many women or men watch me when I was the tallest person in the street by wearing heels. The fact is that almost every man in the street watched me at least once. Women studied me while men glanced at me.



Just enjoy attention.

Barbie~~

Quote from: barbie on September 30, 2012, 10:33:03 AM
Just enjoy attention.

AMEN to that

Quote from: Isabelle on September 30, 2012, 06:10:07 AM
Well, I don't dress out of the ordinary. I don't show much skin (certainly not my thighs :p ) my body is of healthy proportions so, I think I'm just going to have to put this down to me being neurotic and the fact that people stare at women. Thanks for the comments and insights everyone

Been reading this thread with some interest and though I present andro for the most part, I have hung out with many a MtF over a number of years, some moderately passable and others totally stealth. My observations have been that women do spend a lot of time observing the attire of other women around them, they are the ones most able to pick up on anything really amiss in another woman's presentation. Men are quick to notice an attractive form, then take a rapid visual scan of the face and spend an inordinate time surveying a women's breasts, rear end and legs. They aren't concerned about what they are wearing and are more interested in what they would look like wearing nothing at all. (The usual "men are dogs" visual ogling and thought process combo) If that's all that's going on, then that is normal and all is well. However if the smile should turn into an incredulous lear, then something is really amiss with your presentation. When someone makes eye contact, meaning you and the other party make eyeball to eyeball contact followed by a smile, that is often a clear indication that they may be interested in you. I can attest to this personally because it has happened all too often when the person on the other side of the room does that and I being an outgoing, chatty type has felt constrained to take it beyond a smile and a conversation ensues. It can put a strain on ones marriage or partnership because invariably the other party in the room has just drawn me in like the spider does the fly.

I sadly learned that how I feel about others looking is a reflection of how I am feeling about myself. When I first started seeing my therapist presenting quickly followed by shopping etc., I was full of confidence (btw - not really my first time, just first again in 30 years). As others said guys are checking you out, women are comparing or envious. I never thought much of the looks.

A few weeks ago I had a bout of "WTF am I doing!" because of events on teh home front. I knew I still needed to be out as Joanne. Funny part was I took every too long glance that I was read and it was a sign I should stop this BS.  (If only I really really could  )

Quote from: Stephe on September 30, 2012, 01:46:03 AM
  Yes get used to it. You aren't being "read", people of both genders look at women. Guys never look at other guys, God forbid someone might think they are gay! And women don't look at guys for fear they might think she is coming onto them.

The other thing that women do that guys don't is they look and then smile, so just smile back. Or you can look and smile first. It's like girl code, being in the club. A "gurls rule, guys drool" kinda thing.

Guys head nod. They even head nod to women, a coy smile and then look away is how I respond. Don't head nod back

Anyway don't sweat this looking stuff, I've learned to enjoy it. If you really weren't passing someone would say something like "WTF" as they walk by etc. I got that when I know I wasn't lol. The other thing is if you are very unattractive, no one will look either, so that wouldn't be a good sign either.

This ^^ is the best, well said Girl!

You may want to walk slower than when in boy mode, putting your feet in front of each other, chin up, and stick your rack out   

So it's only been about two weeks now that I've been going out in girl mode most of the time and yes, eye contact can be very disconcerting.  What's really funny for me is, before I came out as trans I would often go out in the most bizarre and extravagant outfits and often with a lot of makeup on and I positively enjoyed all the weird looks.
I have to keep reminding myself that I don't give a poo what other people think....but it's SOOO hard 

Quote from: Twyla on September 30, 2012, 01:40:46 PM
I have to keep reminding myself that I don't give a poo what other people think....but it's SOOO hard 

Oddly enough, it's a healthy attitude for us all to have. Otherwise you would be conceding that you are the sum total of how others see you rather than how you see and feel about yourself. Eye contact is normal, but a prolonged stare regardless of the intent, can be extremely intimidating if you allow it to be. A don't give a poo attitude trumps all that!

Quote from: peky on September 30, 2012, 12:31:16 PM
You may want to walk slower than when in boy mode, putting your feet in front of each other, chin up, and stick your rack out 

More good advice. women stand up straighter and carry their head up more than guys normally do. -Be proud- is how you should carry yourself.

Quote from: Stephe on September 30, 2012, 06:03:37 PM
More good advice. women stand up straighter and carry their head up more than guys normally do. -Be proud- is how you should carry yourself.

Excellent point! I used to walk along bouncing up and down swinging my arms until I saw a woman practicing her walk with a book on her head.

This is a problem with me too, it drives me insaneee not knowing if they're staring because they think I look cute/ugly/familiar/odd/male/female etc. I normally don't care most of the time but sometimes it bugs me. Sometimes I even think it's my imagination. Sunglasses help a lot, I always feel more comfortable with them on & also people who pass me by can't see that I'm looking at them to see if they're looking at me.

Quote from: PrettySoldier on September 30, 2012, 08:16:10 PM
This is a problem with me too, it drives me insaneee not knowing if.....

You will never know what they are thinking so don't concern yourself.

I've learned that many women can be snotty if they find you pretty. That's a good clue imo... when many women aren't as nice to you as you're used to them being, then you know that they see you as just another girl... and competition. It's not a sure thing but... lots of women are that way, especially younger ones. When I was a boy, women smiled much much more at me when making casual contact with them outside of just passing by and saying hi (ie at a cash register). When I was in between, they were nicer to me also. Now that I'm transitioned, I've noticed the more men that look at me, the more snotty women I have to talk to. Honestly I'm starting to dislike being around girls unless I know they're my friend

Men on the other hand are much more different. First of all they're MUCH less likely to ma'am you if you don't pass. Second of all, good luck getting a guy to hold a door open for you the way men typically hold a door for women (pulling the door open and standing at its side as opposed to holding it open after they've gone in before you) if you don't pass. Men will also not use pet names like "darling" or "babe" if you don't pass either, but then again that may only happen if you're passing AND attractive, so you may still pass but not be attractive to them. Lastly, their tone of voice changes when talking to females. With men, they're much more stern in their voice, while with women, they almost tone it down to be playful or closer to how one would talk to a 6 year old. Plus men will usually flat out avoid you if you don't pass. They won't make eye contact with you for sure unless they have to (if you're a paying customer at their place of work or something).

Also, FWIW, women were seeing me as female FAR before men were.

EDIT: Also... use everything you can as feedback. Almost everyone I know that knows I'm trans says things like "You're easy to be in public with!" or "You make it all seem so natural" or even if you have a girl friend trying to get you to come to the girls room with her. Sometimes it's the people who know you're trans that will give you the most feedback when you read between the lines or read their body language. Maybe that'll help you figure out what that eye contact is all about.