Ok off and on for the last 20 years I have struggled with my identity as some of you all know, I even finally came to a happy place spiritually and moved to San Francisco 3 months ago to start transitioning from male to female. I was going to a UCC open and affirming church, everything seemed fine and dandy until the day I was introduced to a person who shall rename nameless but considers themselves to be ftm and formerly a lesbian for many years.

This person invited me to a MCC Church. At first everything seemed copacetic until they raised the cup of Christ (wine) and said "this is my sexuality" i was very torn asunder by that as that's not what I was taught the wine was supposed to represent.

During the service and before at dinner the FTM in question told me he was also a Buddhist and had an open sexual relationship with their wife and vice versa. This person was touching me a lot during the service and its that kind of thing that guys do to gage whether or not your comfortable being touched. It was more than  just hugging, they had on their mind something else.

The combination of this event and the fact that I was not meeting many real Christians who actually act like Christians at a tg support group I was going to that was supposed to be faith based, led me to run away from the whole thing and purge.

I tossed all my female clothing, got a haircut and went back into guy mode very disturbed and very annoyed about the whole thing.

I wanted to believe you could be Christian and LGBT or some variety and more and more its not looking like I found any good fruits of the Holy Spirit. So once again Im back to boy mode and sitting here very uncomfortable. I have just about given up on the idea, doesn't even matter how much science and people I have met, from my point of view the whole 2 1/2 months I was in San Francisco, I only met just 2 people that I could honestly say seemed to me authentic people I could trust and the rest did not act at all like they spoke about in prayers and meetings.

Sorry if your offended that I posted it here instead of perhaps spirituality but to me this was also a personal matter because I did not like being hit on like that during church, and I felt like if someone can't even just be a friend to me then what the heck am I doing here?

The decision on how to live your life has always been (and always will be) yours and no one elses.

We have talked about being Christian before, I am a Christian and live my life according to my beliefs.  I know Christ forgives me for any and all sin.  I am Not saying that being transgendered and transitioning is a sin, because in my mind it is not, but I have faith that "if it is a sin" I am forgiven and my salvation is intact.

Don't look to the Church, look to Christ.  Your salvation is through your acceptance of Christ, not the local church.

I feel that I can indeed be the Christian I identify as while also identifying and living as a queer trans* person. I haven't yet been to an MCC church, but the UCC church I go to has been a great haven for me during my transition.

But, just because it works for me doesn't me it will work for everyone else.

Sarah has a good point: it could be that Christ is more important than a church.

well Sarah,

I was just 4 weeks away from seeing a medical doctor at tom waddell at the clinic, so I was very close to taking hormones vs the time I was there in 1997 and then again in 2001 in Los Angeles. I don't think at this point I can go forward as I am really quite at an impass again spiritually. I am now stuck in Texas for a year again no matter what cause I could not afford to lose my housing and could not find an apartment in the bay area that was open and taking section 8 right away. Nor did I have $2000 to pay for a deposit. So if I ever go back its going to be me with some cash and me also with a national chain job I can transfer over to or something like that.

I am sorry you had such an experience at Church. I agree, Church is not a place to be hitting on someone, and that type of behavior would cause me to leave a Church as well.  I can assure you, not all Churches that are open to LGBT are like that. I go to a wonderful Church that is truly full of the Spirit.

Quote from: Sarah Louise on October 09, 2012, 01:04:33 PM
Don't look to the Church, look to Christ.  Your salvation is through your acceptance of Christ, not the local church.

I agree whith what Sarah wrote here. It is more important to follow Christ than to follow a Church.  I truly hope you find your way, and don't let this experience divert you too much.

I'm sorry if I sound uncaring or cruel Shawn - I totally don't mean to - but you have GOT to separate your religious and gender issues.

Think of it as a personal separation of Church and State.

On the one hand you are a person who believes in God.

On the other hand you are a person who is in great pain, trying to come to terms with the reality of their gender identity.

I can imagine all sorts of ways in which a belief in God's love, for all creatures, would be a comfort. But when other people's interpretation of God, and their bigotry and intolerance become a hindrance to your search for personal identity, then, honey, you just have to tell yourself: 'This isn't helping me. This is hurting me. I don't need this sh*t.'

Only you know who you are, what you are and how you feel. A therapist can help you with that. A doctor can help you. A surgeon can help you ... But some idiotic pseudo-priest who thinks that communion wine represents sexuality - and, BTW, show me the Biblical justification for THAT - absolutely cannot help you.

For starters I sincerl doubt your experience at the MCC church is typical of all congregations. Several members of my TG group belong or belonged to the local MCC church. Knowing them as I do I doubt that "This is your sexuality" would fly all that well with them. Also keep in mind where you are... nuff said?

I grew up and lived almost my entire life just across the river from NYC. I am now in rural West Virginia. Talk about culture shock! Life, and people, in and around huge cities is vastly different from anywhere else. I am not at all surprised how you cannot make any real friends in SF. My wife, a NYC resident, couldn't either the ear or so she lived there. All phonies and pretentious was her assessment. In NYC you can start a conversation with just about anyone, anywhere. Not out on the peninsula.

As an expert at beating myself up when the slightest thing goes wrong, or worse yet, when things go waaaay too well, take it from me and don't be so hard on yourself. It's pretty obvious that a) you were inappropiately being hit on and b) Also keep in mind where you are. As far from non-traditional as a person can possible get in the USA short of a few areas of NYC 

SF is a big city, plenty of other churches there. Also check out Veritas as well as MCC and UCC

I think the whole thing is unfair. It's unfair to yourself, and it's unfair to others. You should do whatever makes you happy and not try to fit in to the first thing you can fit in to.

You are being unfair to yourself because you are bouncing around from being unhappy in one situation to being unhappy in another situation. You cannot continue to live like this. How much of your life have you wasted by trying to find your true identity? You need to find something you are comfortable in and not hinge everything on 1 or 2 things (religion & transsexuality). If all you are is a christian, or a transsexual, or both... that is a very shallow identity and a very empty life. Not to tell you to give either or both of these things up, but find something else in addition to spirituality or gender to prioritize in your life for your own sake.

Also, it's unfair to others when you base the entire christian trans community around what happened at that 1 church in a very secular city. You are hinting that you can't be christian and trans. That's very unfair to all of those that ARE very much Christian and trans. Plus, YOU define yourself as Christian and trans... don't let others make you feel like you aren't because you disapprove of their actions.

And here you are, crossing the country like you do trying to find your happy place. You pick SF. Why? Was it because you hear how it's totally okay to be trans there, and you think life would be easy and carefree and you could just settle in without any setbacks? Well let me tell you something: finding that perfect place to live is more than just going to a city to oblige a stereotypical way of life. So SF wasn't your cup of tea... whatever! There's PLENTY of other trans friendly cities to live in. Ever think of Atlanta? New Orleans? Austin? There's tons of them. I'm sure you can find your fit in any of the cities that are commonly known as trans friendly. I really think you should stop making such rigid ideas of who you are and just be who you are!

i dont care if its a least religious place, that doesnt matter, what matters is I can feel happy, still don't though right now but i am dealing with it best i can. I am not interested in turning my back on Christ and doing whatever i want to do, it doesn't work that way for me. and yes being transgender and christian would be enough for me

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 17, 2012, 10:41:52 PM
i dont care if its a least religious place, that doesnt matter, what matters is I can feel happy, still don't though right now but i am dealing with it best i can. I am not interested in turning my back on Christ and doing whatever i want to do, it doesn't work that way for me. and yes being transgender and christian would be enough for me

It's not a matter of turning your back on Christ ... It's a matter of turning your back on people who interpret His message in a way that is hurtful and harmful.

Jesus preached a message of love, tolerance and acceptance. He welcomed the marginalised, the oppressed and the victims of exclusion and discrimination. THAT is the message to carry in your heart, not the bigotry and hatred of those who claim to speak in Jesus' name.

Well.. you can only do what makes you feel comfortable. At the end of the day you only have yourself to answer to. But I'd hate to see you 5.. 10.. 20+ years from now wishing you would've better resolved your identity issues because the answer to strike a balance between your beliefs and your identity finally comes to you.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 17, 2012, 10:41:52 PM
i dont care if its a least religious place, that doesnt matter, what matters is I can feel happy, still don't though right now but i am dealing with it best i can. I am not interested in turning my back on Christ and doing whatever i want to do, it doesn't work that way for me. and yes being transgender and christian would be enough for me

Where is the"happiness" to come from? Is it in circumstances or is it in Christ? As a Christian we are told we are the children of the king,bought with a very high price. Jesus said He would Never leave us or forsake us. We can go to God and the Holy Spirit in us calls Him "Abba" Father, which is a term of endearment closer to "Daddy". The closeness of the relationship that God wants to have with us is likened to a Shepard with his sheep,a bridegroom with his bride and a father with his beloved child.

You shouldn't turn your back on Him. Half the battle is not just reading the Bible and listening to sermons,
the other half is listening and talking to Him. Ask Him for wisdom,He has promised to give it to us.

God is the one who knows us better than anyone else. He sees the person we are inside without all the masks. How He gets you through this is between you and Him.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on October 18, 2012, 04:54:57 AM
Well.. you can only do what makes you feel comfortable. At the end of the day you only have yourself to answer to. But I'd hate to see you 5.. 10.. 20+ years from now wishing you would've better resolved your identity issues because the answer to strike a balance between your beliefs and your identity finally comes to you.

Or worse yet 30+ years later once again revisting crucial decisions made in your 20's when life was a LOT simplier.

You are 40 years old, and you are letting other people behavior influence who you are in such a major way as to cast your gender identity like it was a worn out shirt.

The you come here for sympathy, as if this was inflicted on you! You need to "toughen" up and take some personal responsibility for you life. Grow up!!!

Quote from: peky on October 18, 2012, 06:53:51 AM
You are 40 years old, and you are letting other people behavior influence who you are in such a major way as to cast your gender identity like it was a worn out shirt.

The you come here for sympathy, as if this was inflicted on you! You need to "toughen" up and take some personal responsibility for you life. Grow up!!!

Damn, that was harsh.

I have to agree however :/.

that was not a very productive thing to say..."toughen up"

I am a strong person in character and I help a lot of my friends and I have always treated people with kindness. I don't need to toughen up at all. How the heck am I not taking responsibility? I have done quite a lot in these last 6 months to just come to a place of acceptance. Then to have it all shattered again.

I simply have to find some folks who I can trust that are christian and transgender and actually find some gals/guys that actually live the way they state they believe.

How would you like it if someone brings you to church , only to have sexual interests in you and not actually there to help you put your 2 worlds together? So yeah It was "Inflicted on me" I did not ask for anything but friendship from that person, they really sent me emotionally in a bad way, that's what really got me hurting again. I just felt like i could not trust anyone.

I don't think you understand at all peky, when you are raised for so very long to think that all of the lgbt is wrong, and then someone comes along and does what he/she did it really stops you in your tracks and you question the whole thing again. It hurts because you really wanted to give it your all and accept the whole thing.

Anyways I am feeling better I have had some time to process all this. I haven't given up completely, just for now it is all up in the air, once again I am back to feeling like I am going to loose my salvation cause i decided to follow the path I thought was right.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 20, 2012, 07:09:12 PM

I simply have to find some folks who I can trust that are christian and transgender and actually find some gals/guys that actually live the way they state they believe.

Would you believe me if I posted that I am such a person?

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 20, 2012, 07:09:12 PM

when you are raised for so very long to think that all of the lgbt is wrong

I was raised Catholic, and went to private Catholic schools for 13 years. The best religious thing that happened to me during those years was falling in love with a girl who went to a UCC church. The same church where we were married, where our kids were baptized, where she was ordained, the same church where we were divorced, and the same church that gave me a standing ovation for telling the whole congregation that I'm trans and queer.

We're out there, Shawn. We do exist. There are queer trans* Christians who go to church without thinking of it as a singles bar.

I can't speak for the MCC church, though I do have an interest in visiting one. It comes down to getting to one when I don't have a car and the 2 closest to me aren't really all that convenient to public transport.

I would say, don't give up on the idea of finding Christian LTGBQ folks. We're out there. We aren't that hard to find.

thanks Constance, I appreciate that very much.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 20, 2012, 07:09:12 PM


I simply have to find some folks who I can trust that are christian and transgender and actually find some gals/guys that actually live the way they state they believe.

Yes you do. But the question is are you going to find them where you live or is it going to have to be a different way? Is it possible that it may have to be via the internet or some other way as opposed to face to face?

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 20, 2012, 07:09:12 PM


How would you like it if someone brings you to church , only to have sexual interests in you and not actually there to help you put your 2 worlds together? So yeah It was "Inflicted on me" I did not ask for anything but friendship from that person, they really sent me emotionally in a bad way, that's what really got me hurting again. I just felt like i could not trust anyone.

Been there myself. It set me back for a very long time. Forgive them and let it go. (You may not be able to forget but you may be able to use it to help someone else) The trust will come back but it will take time.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on October 20, 2012, 07:09:12 PM


I don't think you understand at all peky, when you are raised for so very long to think that all of the lgbt is wrong, and then someone comes along and does what he/she did it really stops you in your tracks and you question the whole thing again. It hurts because you really wanted to give it your all and accept the whole thing.

You are not alone. Others have been there too. Please correct me if I am wrong but I am sensing that you do not have peace about this. Maybe what you need first is His peace before doing anything else. Part of the problem is you have other people telling you what they think and how you should go,you are having feelings and other things that are in conflict with what you have been told. In and of themselves those are difficult to get through,but you also have another factor that is in play,and that concerns your salvation. From what you are saying that is the MOST important to you.

I believe that you may not find the peace you are looking for with God and your salvation unless and until you spend time seeking Him about this. He can confirm it to your heart and lead you in the direction that you need to go. Now the challenge is are you willing to do so and go for it all no matter what His answer is?

Perhaps this may help.It helped me out a lot

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