Quote from: Firecat on October 13, 2012, 12:37:06 PM
Its exactly what my original therapist said to me when I asked her about this kind of thing... "Why would you need that kind of training? Isn't the point to just be yourself in the end?" Yes I agree with it in some ways... if I don't like something, I'm not necessarily going to pick it up. However, the only "self" I know is that quiet, shy awkward boy who can't join in with the conversations, can't seem to click with anybody at work or at home, whose "friends" even ignore him on hangout times because he "brings nothing to the table."  So what I'm looking for is not acting lessons, but the ability to relax and be comfortable around others.

This is the real problem I see in this whole post... when did being shy become a masculine mannerism?

Like you said it is not black and white... just because people expect girls to be more sociable doesn't mean girls don't feel anxiety. Actually, more girls have anxiety and avoidant PD than men. You have to give women more credit as people with all the differences and complexity that anyone else has... and you get anxiety because you care what other people think about you.

As for your therapist well I don't know how you act IRL so I can't say, but some people have no clue what mannerisms are masculine or feminine and will just make that impression based only on how  you look and sound. I had a therapist before for non-TG stuff and she was good with body language but she told me that most of her clients had bad or terrible body language & non-verbal communication. Well I was still in the closet at the time and I was nervous and quiet for a while but she picked up on my femininity anyway (though she was kinda rude and tried to force me to be more masculine, she even told me to ask my doctor about getting my levels checked and taking T  ). But at the same time, someone else might not have, just because of how I looked. Not everybody is very aware of these things.

Yeah I suppose it is a confidence issue. Even though I can feel it in my personality, I find it hard to believe anyone else will around me. As I said, maybe I don't need acting lessons, but more than likely I need to find some comfort to being myself around others. I have no idea how well my face would pass or anything like that, but I've already sworn to myself I'd never get a ffs, so I think a bit of comfortability and maybe a bit more knowledge couldn't hurt.

Quote from: Firecat on October 13, 2012, 01:15:40 PM
As I said, maybe I don't need acting lessons,

Right it's not acting per say. But IMHO women just do things differently than men, especially with other women. Things that you would NEVER experience unless you were perceived as a woman already. Like the way a woman will touch another woman's arm when speaking to her, she would never do this when speaking to a man etc. A lot of it is very subtle and of course after you have lived as a woman for a while you pick these small details up. Even something as simple as how you shake hands, shake their hand "like a man" and that will raise an eyebrow which starts the "That was odd..." train of thought.

The only way to really pick this stuff up is from observation. I'm sure some people have been around women more than men so would pick up women's mannerisms. But again this isn't someone anyone male or female is born doing.

80% of the people I am around online are women, 90% of the people I'm around in real life are men, and would explain a lot.

Quote from: Stephe on October 13, 2012, 04:23:10 PM
Right it's not acting per say. But IMHO women just do things differently than men, especially with other women. Things that you would NEVER experience unless you were perceived as a woman already. Like the way a woman will touch another woman's arm when speaking to her, she would never do this when speaking to a man etc. A lot of it is very subtle and of course after you have lived as a woman for a while you pick these small details up. Even something as simple as how you shake hands, shake their hand "like a man" and that will raise an eyebrow which starts the "That was odd..." train of thought.

The only way to really pick this stuff up is from observation. I'm sure some people have been around women more than men so would pick up women's mannerisms. But again this isn't someone anyone male or female is born doing.

I totally agree!

And one other thing ... There may well be a big difference here between those of us who have never really behaved in a masculine way - like Tessa, whose experience is that she was always told she was acting like a girl or a 'f*g' - and those who have spent years and even decades conforming to what society expected of a man - some even being super-macho as a kind of compensation.

For the first group, then, yes, it's absolutely right to act naturally or be yourself, because that self has never really acted in anything other than a feminine way.

But I think it's much harder for the second group to get rid of all those learned masculine traits - like you say, Stephe, the guy handshake, or maybe walking with the shoulders hunched forwards, sitting in a guy way, etc ... Bearing in mind that 90% of communication is said to be non-verbal, people are going to make a lot of judgements based on non-verbal cues, way before we open our mouths.

So it really pays to make sure that the messages we give out are the right ones. And that takes observation, practice and experience to get right.