Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 11:59:38 AM
Yeah I tried three times now to get put onto an AA, but the doctor all three times told me "You're so young, your hair looks fine, the cause looks genetic, you don't want to be taking stuff like that, the side effects wouldn't be worth it."

Yes if you don't tell your doctor you are a transsexual woman, and you also don't present with symptoms of either hair loss or benign prostate hypertrophy, an ethical doctor isn't going to prescribe you an anti-androgen. And because hair loss is considered a minor inconvenience for a man, for just hair loss the dose will be the smallest possible in order to minimize side effects. The side effects for some men is permanent unwanted feminization, gynecomastia, or shrinkage and impotence. For a MTF those are wanted effects, but for anyone else those could be devastating.

And if I go into the doctor's looking normal and male, without any way to convince otherwise... including either my way of talking acting or dressing, or a letter from a therapist, how could i possibly tell just any doctor about that? I seem to have run into a bit of a paradox just like I have with my writing--the only way to get published, is to have been published already. I'm kind of just outside the locked fence gate staring at greener pastures.

Personally, my depression has gotten so bad over the last 2-3 years, I can hardly enjoy any of the things I used to enjoy, I often feel too lazy and tired to accomplish much of anything, and don't feel what I have is worth fixing. Its a bad mentality, yes I know.  But what I do know is that the idea of becoming the girl I admire inside of myself, its been enough to start motivating me to make changes on the outside and bettering myself. The only flaw there is, when something threatens my ability to achieve the dream it either 1. makes me more determined, or 2. makes me feel even more hopeless and depressed. And right now, I'm sliding down into depression.

I know that the HRT wouldn't solve my problems, but I do think they wouldn't hurt either. I don't believe that the end result is whats going to make me happier, but the journey along the way. Testing the waters, overcoming my fears, and finally being allowed to spread my wings... but this can only ever work if I'm in a position of being comfortable and confident enough to do it. Jumping down to a strange new city by myself and crossdressing out in public may seem like a neat fantasy, but it could also be dangerous and even traumatizing if things go sour... so one needs all the tools and experience they can get.

You are in the right place to listen, read, ask questions, and learn from others experiences. A lot of the listening though that you need to do is listening to your own heart. And the one you may ask the most important questions is you. I hope you will get in to a good therapist with gender counseling experience, or at least an LGBT saavy/friendly therapist who is willing to learn, because it is hard enough to deal with what sounds like gender dysphoria when you are dealing with other challenges like clinical depression at the same time. Have you got either one of those yet?

I've been where you describe yourself, suffering severe depression, feeling you know what you need but thinking of a thousand obstacles that stand in the way. Firecat sweetie, you will be amazed what you can do and accomplish when you give yourself permission to follow your heart. You have to value the little girl inside enough to want to give her a chance. It sounds early to be worrying about full transitions or going full time etc, there is time to explore and get things right, but you can make a commitment to your self that you will follow wherever your truth may lead you.

You don't have to be ready to do what I did and jump into deep water to begin with; most girls take their time and explore gradually.

There are lots of things that you can do to explore your feelings and gain experience. For example, most decent sized cities have one or more crossdressers societies or social groups, that support one another and get together regularly to go out en femme and enjoy camaraderie and safety in numbers. If its not your town, you don't need to fear outing yourself prematurely. Many towns and cities have ciswomen or transwomen who are expert crossdresser coaches who will for a small fee give you a safe and supervised introduction to crossdressing including hair, makeup, shoes, walk, talk, and let you take home your clothing and makeup kit (or rent you storage space). For example, there is a cis woman where I live who adores transgender women and crossdressers and has her own retreat/shop/meeting space, and who has helped thousands of trans women, and crossdressing men, get in touch with their inner woman or femme, safely discretely and respectfully. There are also a number of very safe, very well respected annual conventions for crossdressers and transgender women where you can discretely try out your femme style in a safe environment for newbies. Taking a vacation from your male life might give you the boost you need, and can be done safely without having to do it all on your own.

That's a nice thought, but I'm so nervous to go around asking about things like that.  I'm such a hermit, I don't even know my way around the "city" that's literally across the bridge from where I live.  There's supposedly a good gay / lesbian / trans community in my area, but as far as knowing anything about it, its beyond me.  The "friend" of mine that was supposed to help introduce me to it, and take me to the clubs and teach me to crossdress properly has pretty much ceased all contact with me for whatever reason.  But its exactly what I need, somebody who could maybe take me under their wing, help me come across as feminine, and not from what my therapist said, my supposed "straight masculine" (even though friends of mine say I act gender neutral) or even moreso, not overtly gay. 

I have no issues with coming across as a bit butch or tom-boyish, as I've grown up as a boy. It's expected. I have many interests that a guy does, and I have a lot of quirks and mannerisms of said male.  Some of them I expect to eventually be replaced by female ones, some I expect are just going to be integrated into the new me.  Besides that, I do consider myself Bi, especially leaning more towards the female side of the spectrum. There are a few guys I'd be interested in, but by and large, they intimidate and scare the hell out of me. I'm literally ashamed to be male, with what i've had to grow up around.

Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 10:57:38 PM
And if I go into the doctor's looking normal and male, without any way to convince otherwise... including either my way of talking acting or dressing, or a letter from a therapist, how could i possibly tell just any doctor about that?

By being honest with them and just saying it? Like I said none of starting transition is easy. Actually it is easy, it just doesn't appear to be.

If you went into a doctor and said "I would like to get on spiro. I'm transgendered and what T is doing to my body is very depressing. I am in therapy and they doesn't want me on estrogen yet but I want to at least stop what the T is doing to me until I can get on HRT. " If the doctor had no clue you are trans, there is absolutely no way he would prescribe them and he would be a BAD doctor if he did. Worst case he would think you are weird and say no. He can NOT tell other people what the two of you discuss, so it's not like he can "out you". And if you really are hell bent on getting on HRT, if you got a doctor to prescribe spiro, the therapist would likely change their mind on HRT as well. YOU have to prove you are serious as what you are thinking you want to do is a serious thing to do.

Just FYI, I had been living full time for 3 years. I had already had my name changed, my ID state ID was changed etc. The doctor I talked to when I decided I wanted to try HRT started me on spiro that day, the therapist required 3 months of monthly "treatments" before she would give me a letter for HRT. So don't think they rubber stamp this for anyone.

As I see it, transitioning isn't supposed to make you happy. It's supposed to remove an obstacle from you finding happiness. That's a subtle distinction that gets lost sometimes.

Does your maleness block every attempt at finding happiness? Before I began seeing my therapist almost 7 months ago I had reached the point where I was genuinely asking myself why I wanted to continue living. I had come very close to attempting suicide as a teen and I recognized the same thoughts growing in my head again but this time I realized that I needed professional help. So I sought that out the help I needed, which led to discussions about how I perceived myself, my gender identity and the admission to myself (that I'd tried to deny for so many years) that I do indeed see myself as female internally. In my case it became a decision to save my life rather than lose it and even then I went slow, not beginning HRT until late September.

So how do you know that you are MtF? Only you can know that but in my experience, a therapist can be a great ally in discovering who you are and in helping you decide how to deal with your gender dysphoria. Not everyone needs to fully transition to the opposite gender. For some people, other or partial steps are sufficient. But take the time to consider all of those steps, how those steps help or do not help your gender dysphoria, and how you expect transitioning will let you relate to the rest of the world once you've taken the steps you choose to take.

Quote from: Firecat on October 19, 2012, 10:57:38 PM
And if I go into the doctor's looking normal and male, without any way to convince otherwise... including either my way of talking acting or dressing, or a letter from a therapist, how could i possibly tell just any doctor about that?

I asked around the LGBT community in my Area which doctor works well with patients that are transitioning and I found one. So, you may have to take the reins on this and make contact with them. I am truly sorry your friend ceased contact with you. I went in guy mode to get my first prescription. He didn't question me. He just treated me like a normal person. Told me what to expect over the long term, and what the potential side effects were like DVT, hirsute, cramps, and blah blah blah. When I went I used my male name at the time because I didn't want to have my insurance kick back the claim for the visit. Then later as I became comfortable I asked them to call me Jennifer and they had no problem with it.

Ahh therapy the gatekeepers. This is strictly my opinion on therapy. Please see a therapist first. I didn't get my letter right off the bat, but months later the therapist was like what do you think about going on HRT out of the blue during one session and I was like I really would like to go on HRT. I got my letter and went off to see the above doctor. The therapist is there to guide, but they are also there to make sure there are no under lying problems that needs to be address first can cause you to fail during your transition. If you are clashing with your current therapist, find another one. Until you find one that you can click with.  But honestly the decision is yours and we can only offer advice on what worked best for us.

Jennifer

I don't know that I have gender dysphoria or what, but I do know that I have seriously no motivation of living as a male, nor do I find any joy in picturing playing the male in a relationship, nor even in sex. I find myself actually easily turned on by a lot... playing the male isn't one of them. I see female clothing and I feel envious... I love the boots especially. I've made many more friends online posing as the female and being just a lot more open and yes even flirtatious... but being male irl, it made me very depressed as well, as I was "finding happiness based on a lie", that I could never be that person.   I feel socially very awkward always, I'm extremely self conscious, and even hate the sound of my own voice when talking. I'm extremely critical about my appearance, my self esteem especially lowering when I haven't shaved in a few days.  As far as living day to day as a female... I don't know, it's hard to picture. It's just as hard to picture my being anything but a quivering mess as a male either... the idea of becoming female just motivates me a lot more.

That said, I've made an appointment for thursday with my doctor to address the hairloss issue, as it's quite frankly effecting my ability to function at work or even concentrate on any one task... so really, how should I approach it?  Should I bring up the idea of Finasteride and tell him I know how it will effect my hair loss, and that I'm aware of the potential permanent feminizing side effects amongst many others, including cognitive effects? That I'm in therapy for transgender issues, and that while I'm looking to go male to female, the hair loss is impeding my ability to sit back and make rational thought?

I don't know if in your current status you are going to be able to use things such as finasteride or Minoxidil. Remember, you are going to have a major shedding for some time  that may increase your anxiety to the point of quickly dropping the treatment. You need to be patient, take photos every month and wait. The first decent results with  Fin can appear at 6 months, and you would need at least one year to actually have a real improvement. Also, each persons reacts in a different way to the drug. It may not be the only cause of Hair Loss.


It's been 5 weeks for me, and I have to deal with a daily count of 50-100 fallen hairs. I can see the scalp more clearly, and it takes a lot of courage to continue. Not really for the faint of heart, specially if you start reading horror stories on Hairlosstalk.

If that shedding is going to happen on finasteride, its going to happen on the HRT meds too, isn't it? Gods its hard. The shedding makes me paranoid, and I know its only going to get worse, but at the same time I know if I don't get it treated, I'll be well on the way to horse-shoe pattern bald in the next 2-5 years. My brother went fairly quick.  As I might've said, my stylist doesn't believe that the shedding on the crown has been the result of genetics, as she didn't see any of the little hairs evident. Also noting that theres been real bad irritation thanks to what I believe is shampoo allergy, actually its been really fired up in that spot since she washed my hair today... and yeah it was like that too right about the time I noticed the patch of hair thinning / missing. But she says on my hair line it does look genetic, tiny hairs dotted across my hair lone, one side having gone a fair bit farther back than the other. So really, who knows.   All I know is; save my hair, save my sanity.

On the brighter side, I came out and told a couple of my co-workers about my dream and desire, and they weren't surprised... the girl I told even was a little excited it seems

  Be honest with the doc. Tell him exactly what you just said. "That I'm in therapy for transgender issues, and that while I'm looking to go male to female, the hair loss is impeding my ability to sit back and make rational thought?" I would even say I am trying to get a HRT letter but am freaking out over what the T is doing to me in the mean time. I know finasteride/avodart will help that too. I wish I could get started on at least spiro...." and let that dangle.

Another tip on docs. Both of the docs I have been to (the first one retired) have more specialized in infectious disease treatment, i.e. they work with people who have aides. I think most docs in that field are very LBGT friendly and most seem to understand trans issues. If you can't find a "trans doctor" where you live, maybe hunt up one who treats aides patients and go talk to them?

A fair question to ask; should I expect briefly hastened hair loss on any AA / hormone I start taking? Also, would spiro have the same effect on hair loss?  All questions I should ask doctors directly, but I figure asking those who have asked doctors is much the same. I'll be seeing a physician on thursday, so I just have to keep sane til then. I just hope all goes well this time, as this time I made it the primary point of my visit, and not just a side note.

Also, will Spiro cause initial shedding?

After having told that girl at work about my desires and feeling about wanting to become female, and it sparking into fast, detailed and fun conversation... and this isn't the first time the topic has done this for me... I feel amazing. On top of the world. As soon as I let loose that can of worms on anyone, any they react in a positive manner (5/5 times, all positive so far), it's wonderful!  After a 7 day bout of severe depression, I suddenly feel on top of the world, and there's little doubt in my mind right now of just what I want... no... NEED... to fit in with the world.

lol she wants to take me to get a manicure sometime    Somebody who'd always been somewhat distant and only mildly friendly suddenly has the potential of becoming a friend.

Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AM
On top of the world. As soon as I let loose that can of worms on anyone, any they react in a positive manner (5/5 times, all positive so far), it's wonderful!

Of the hundred + people I know only ONE reacted negatively and he is VERY homophobic so not shocked. His fear was people who see us together would assume I was his date. Take her up on the manicure, get a pedi while you're there too. Things like this pampering princess time is one of the great things about being a woman )

Regarding shedding of hair:
Minoxidil is notorious for causing shedding before new thicker hairs come in. It, at least while continuing to be applied, causes some hairs that male pattern baldness type hormonal influences caused to go vellus (thin and nearly transparent) to revert back to typical non-mpb thickness. Since it influences the follicle to do this, the old hair is pushed out for the new thick hair. Neither the shedding nor the affect was that dramatic for me, since I had 25 years of change the other way to try to reverse.
Other hair medications  (anti-androgens) are supposed to block the effect of hormones that cause hair to go vellus. Since they aren't supposed to affect follicles that have already changed, they shouldn't cause any shedding. If they do, it is because they are enhancing the Minoxidil effect and causing existing vellus follicles to revert to follicles that produce regular thickness hairs. Didn't happen to me, but if it did I would celebrate.

also remember finasteride takes a good six month to a year. at least it did for me. the temples are now filling in lol. i had first vellous hair for the longest time. but try not to expect instantaneous results. have to be realistic

Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AM
A fair question to ask; should I expect briefly hastened hair loss on any AA / hormone I start taking?

I use Minoxidil and it has resulted in hair growth. Periodically I have shedding (more hair on the hair brush than normal) but I have a reasonably thick head of hair and it is the widows peaks I am trying to fill in. I also take Biotin to ensure that my hair is getting is full dose of vitamins and other dietary  goodies.

I do not think Spiro would have the same effect because AIUI it blocks the receptors for T, it does not stop production of T. They do not prescribe it over here (UK) so I am unsure exactly. Over here it tends to be Androcur, Zoloft or Decapeptyl.

Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AMAfter having told that girl at work about my desires and feeling about wanting to become female, and it sparking into fast, detailed and fun conversation... and this isn't the first time the topic has done this for me... I feel amazing.

Welcome to the female world. This is typical. I am still amazed at what women I have only just met will tell me about their lives. Of course, they expect you to be equally forthcoming...

Quote from: Firecat on October 24, 2012, 01:06:07 AMOn top of the world. As soon as I let loose that can of worms on anyone, any they react in a positive manner (5/5 times, all positive so far), it's wonderful!

It is like a drug, isn't it? So far I may have lost only one person and I am still not sure about him. He has not been hostile openly but he seems to be avoiding me. I do not see him often and I would rather not lose him but if I do..... oh well.. 

Transition is not all doom and gloom. For some of us it works really well.

Quote from: bev2 on October 25, 2012, 03:26:26 AM
I use Minoxidil and it has resulted in hair growth. Periodically I have shedding (more hair on the hair brush than normal) but I have a reasonably thick head of hair and it is the widows peaks I am trying to fill in. I also take Biotin to ensure that my hair is getting is full dose of vitamins and other dietary  goodies.

Agreed. I was not applying it properly at first (over wet hair, or washing it one after appyling in the morning gym shower). Mostly because I believed it would just be a placebo, but after fixing the biggest errors (I know have a bottle at work to apply it during the morning when I am completely dry), tiny black hairs started to appear on the hairline. With dut, the vellus hairs are now appearing. With a bit of luck, the areas close to the temples will continue filling, and the hairlin should define on the corners. Not a complete repair, but if it lets me keep a Norwood II and grow it longer (when the shedding stops)...

Well, he took a look... didn't see the bald spot my co-worker did, or the thinning that my stylist did, says that it might be just the way my hair sits sometimes.   But he did notice a lot of redness around my scalp, so it might be that I have a very sensitive scalp and that I should use organic shampoo, sometimes an anti-dandruff (zinc) shampoo. He says yes around my temples looks thinning, but does not want to put me on finasteride just on a whim because of all the various hormonal effects. 

I proceeded to tell him about my transgender issues, and how the hair loss is effecting me to the point of anxiety and depression, and that I wouldn't  be adverse to said hormonal effects. He calmly goes and explains that while yes, the finasteride would cause some regrowth, it would only be a temporary thing, and that over time the ends would be the same. He also said that the HRT would give much the same effect, but would actually take a different route, and something like two totally different routes to achieve one specific goal... he doesn't want to put me on the finasteride... yet. As he doesn't detect that bald spot, and said it would be unethical.  He also in turn tells me that yeah I had an allergy to the zoloft I'd taken before, or that it made the symptoms worse, and that he's been hesitant to start me on anything for that for anxiety and depression, as there might be something else entirely rather than a chemical imbalance thats causing it... and that my transgender issues might just be the reason. So he set me up with a psychiatrist that I'm going to go see on december 3rd and go from there.

The doctor then pulled me aside and said "I just wanted you to know, I don't care whether you're male, female, or somewhere in between, I'm here to help you, and this is a safe place for you to come and talk."

Each and every time I tell someone about this, I feel that much more relief... I get to feeling so much better about myself and find that I'm in much higher spirits, so even if there was no real solution, at least I can feel a little more confident today!

Sounds like it was a good visit then? That was good your doctor said that at the end, and that you are getting good support!

Quote from: Firecat on October 25, 2012, 01:05:43 PM
The doctor then pulled me aside and said "I just wanted you to know, I don't care whether you're male, female, or somewhere in between, I'm here to help you, and this is a safe place for you to come and talk."

That is awesome. There needs to be more people like that in the world.