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Quote from: muuu on October 28, 2012, 05:10:42 AM
Sorry if it's triggering >.< ... it's some of my favourit thinspo pics. I just can't stop looking at them, even if it just makes me feel worse about myself -.-



I've been thinking about how I should ask her (my current "therapist") to see another psychologist/psychiatrist... but I can't come up with a good way without seeming stupid and needy.
I just need a really good reason with logic behind it, one that doesn't make me seem dumb :s

I've really hesitated before responding to this thread - partly because i don't want to say the wrong thing, partly because i know that what I say is likely to bounce off you like a ping-pong ball off a brick wall and partly because this whole subject is profoundly distressing to me. But I feel I have to say something because,    Muuu, your life is in danger ...

You are anorexic. You may say that you're at 18 BMI but (a) that's still not a really healthy weight and (b) I wouldn't believe it unless I saw you on the scales, just in your undies, without being anywhere near a tap or a glass in the past two hours.

I learned what anorexics are like the hard way - watching my daughter starve herself down to 70lbs (32kg), seeing a beautiful, lively, brilliant girl transformed into a listless, balding, suicidal skeleton. She recovered, thank God, though the damage to her bones and reproductive system will almost certainly be permanent and irreversible ... and even when she was in hospital - where she stayed for five months - she was denying she had a problem, faking her weight and her food intake, lying, stealing, doing absolutely anything she could to protect the voice inside her telling her to kill herself.

And you sound just like her.

YOU MUST GET HELP

You seem to be suffering from a toxic combination of depression, suicidal thoughts, food anxieties, weight fixation and obsessive fascination with extreme thinness.

I think, at this point, that the immediate need is to deal with that. I mean, get you on a proper, supervised eating programme that will prevent the organ failure to which you may well be heading. Once that's been stabilised, then you can see whether transition can be of any help to you. But here's the thing, women are not defined by bones. They are defined by fat. It is fat that fills out a feminine face; that gives a woman her breasts, her hips, her thighs, the smooth, soft line of her limbs.

Anorexia is a denial of femaleness, not an embracing of it.

I don't want to sound harsh, or nagging, or intrusive. But I've seen what anorexia is like at close quarters and it is an ugly, angry, violent, hateful disease. I absolutely beg you, please - for your own sake - seek medical and psychiatric help before it is too late.

PS: One final thing ... anorexia, like gender identity disorder is something that lots of doctors and therrapists think they know about, but almost none really do. So make sure that you deal with an expert. And here's how you know you've found one: they look exhausted and admit they don't know exactly what causes anorexia and cannot promise a cure for it. Plus, they don't fall for any of your bull->-bleeped-<-, because - trust me -they've heard it all before. Find a doctor like that and don't ever let go of them because they could bring you back to real life.

Quote from: muuu on October 29, 2012, 08:27:11 AM
I've always felt like a burden in groups, and there's so many things I have to think about (what are they thinking about, looking and if I stand/sit in a strange way or look weird and so on). I don't know about calling, I just get really nervous when I have to call somewhere (To a doctor, a service provider etc)... and actually asking about personal (Online is different thoug, because nobody can see or hear me) things is even worse >.<
Thing is though, if I'd say something like "I'd like to have contact with a psychologist/psychiatrist because of <reason>", then she'd maybe ask what I'd expect from it and what made me think of it... There are just so many things I have to think trough.

I think supour groups can be great but they can also be a big step if your already nervous about speaking on the phone.
Maybe theres a way you can email some?
no matter what I think you should need someone to guide and help you cause you cant really deal with it by yourself, you need someone who can be our right hand to help you with all this.

Quote from: muuu on October 29, 2012, 08:27:11 AM
Thing is though, if I'd say something like "I'd like to have contact with a psychologist/psychiatrist because of <reason>", then she'd maybe ask what I'd expect from it and what made me think of it... There are just so many things I have to think trough.

You're overthinking it. You don't have to think of anything. "I just told you. I don't really feel we're compatible. And part of the consequences of this is that I don't really feel comfortable telling you of the details." If she's anything like a real therapist, she'll understand.

Overthinking stuff is dangerous with that personality of yours - I know because mine isn't all that different. At some point you'll go all "it's too complicated, I'm not doing it". I've made that mistake. It delayed my transition by months, maybe even a year if I add it up. But for you, you do realise that consequences could be much worse than just a delay, right? Depression and anorexia can have a much steeper curve upwards than gender dysphoria alone.

By the way, if it's easier online, there are support chat lines just for that, just like there are hotlines. The people there are just as good as the ones on the phone, and it's in the comfortable environment of a keyboard and screen. Plus, some of them, depending on the place, are actually professionals to some extent, even.

To find one, just look up on the Internet some phone hotlines you have heard about from your area. Many, many hotlines of all kinds have caught up to technology and opened up an Internet chat service on their website. Simple as that. If by some bad luck, you can't find any that way, well, I trust your Googling skills are good. The good thing about the Internet is that distance doesn't matter. It's just plain impossible that you can't find any English support chat to get some help.

And don't belittle this idea. Sometimes, just speaking (or typing - the same) to someone, live, and receiving support, even if you already knew all the advice given, even if logically it shouldn't have helped, makes you feel much better. It's the case for me, at least. And it's not even that likely that it'll be the only good side to it.

And if you'd like to speak with a few people instead of a 1:1 chat, well, I'm not there often at all, but the IRC channel here, I believe, always has some nice people.

And uhm... I seriously hope Carlita is wrong. But if she isn't, if there's really truth in what she's saying, if it relates to you, well, I agree with her. You know, once you start lying - especially if you lie to yourself - about a problem, it's usually a huge sign that it's a serious one. It's important to act before you manage to convince yourself that the problem isn't really one. Way too many people do or have done that, and I'm one of them. Once you're there, it's so very hard to get out of the hole. And when the problem is a really serious one, it can get very ugly.

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Step zero. Not even one, because it's even more important than that. NEVER THINK YOU'RE BOTHERING YOUR THERAPISTS. EVER. They seriously have nothing to complain about compared to you. Their only purpose is to help you. And you'll make them help. Understood? When you're low, you don't even have the right not to be selfish, when it comes to solving your issues.

Step one. When you don't have the strength to seek help, it's okay to ask someone to seek help for you. You don't have much to do. Hello, I need help. Four words. As I said, don't overthink it. Most of life is much easier than you figure it to be. And this is one of the best examples. They're pros. Unless you literally flee the appointment (because I very much hope you won't), they'll know how to get the rest out of you.

Step two. Go to your appointments and tell them about the distress you're feeling. Or hey, why not just print this topic out? When I felt overwhelmed about telling a therapist about an issue, I did that often. I printed a topic from Susans.

Step three. Whenever you think you've eaten enough, add something. Force yourself to add something. You don't have the right to leave the table without eating an extra something. The exact same as people who eat too much, inverted.

Step four. Stop thinking that super skinny is good. I know you can't change your opinions so easily. But believe in the power of self-suggestion. Don't allow yourself to word it, mentally or literally, that you'd like to be skinny, that you wish you could be skinny, etc. You reinforce your bad thoughts when you do that, even though you don't realise it. Even, once in a while, say it out loud; write it, the contrary, even if you don't think it: "A bit of fat is good." "Skeleton-thin is disgusting."

I know it sounds silly. But I also know it always works to some extent. You know you need to change your convictions. It won't happen overnight, but little by little, by doing the smallest of things and putting some will in it, you'll achieve something.

Take things step by step. Small step by small step. Stuff becomes easy when you do so. Do it the kiddy way if you must. Write them on a chart.

You can see it this way, metaphorically. You're stuck in a room. A huge boulder is in the way. You know only you can get out of that room. You won't die there. But you need to get out absolutely. You don't have a bomb or anything, but this place was a storehouse and you have a huge crate of hammers. Even if you wanted to kill yourself, you couldn't. A bad joke of fate made you immortal. (The reason for this last statement is that suicide is never an option. The way I see it, no one knows what lies after death. If you're depressed enough to think of suicide, you should be negative enough to envision that after death lies nothing but an eternal reliving of your issues, but worse. If it can be anything, it can certainly be the worst.)

You have two options:

a) Do nothing
b) Start hitting the boulder with a hammer

Option a) is meaningless; you'll just go crazy out of solitude. Option b) will take you a huge amount of time, but you know that every hit of your hammer brings you closer to the exit.

Even if you don't have a final solution, always do a little something for your problems, daily. That extra bite after every meal, for example, will be your hammer hits.

And get a good multivitamin. Until you eat right, it'll ensure you have your essential stuff. You know, many nutrients, when you lack them, can amplify and even cause depressive and anxious symptoms. Put all the odds on your side. (I personally recommend Women's Ultra Mega if you're in the US, for all the extra little stuff they add. But don't get the canadian version. A rip-off without the little cool extras and at three times the price.)

Finally, if all seems completely hopeless, you always have the last resort option. Going to the hospital, saying you're super depressive and suicidal and anorexic. They'll take you in, ensure you can't kill yourself, force you to eat right, and make you see professionals for your issues. I was at the hospital twice for reasons comparable to this, and both times it helped me a ton. Having them take care of everything for you, if only that, is a huge help. You don't have to worry about anything but you. And they even help you do it. And the best thing is that it's not even hard to do. You walk there, talk to someone and sit down, then follow instructions. If you're so anxious you don't even want to go there, you call and they send that funny little truck with a red light on it.

Edit: By the way, I've been posting on two threads these last days. You might want to give it a look. I think there's some advice that could apply to you.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,128856.msg1020774.html#new

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It's pretty simple, though. What a therapist is going to accomplish is help you find such things less important; to focus on what's actually meanningful in life. The problem is not that you don't have hips; it's that you think having hips is so crucial.

And by the way, gaining weight while on HRT will put fat on your hips, giving you quite a bit more of a female shape.

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Yeah, but thing is, it isn't. Look at Aeris' blog. She's just starting to get hips. Yet do you think she doesn't pass? Hips are a good thing, but to say they're capital is silly. You can pass just fine even with zero of them. And if it kills you that much, there are implants you can get eventually.

And that HRT won't have enough effect... Oh yeah? What tells you that? I've seen a lot of pretty impressive results. And even though I'm 21 already and my E dose is way too low, my actual bones have widened a bit. I can tell, since I've been losing weight rather than gaining some.

But of course, HRT can't do anything to you unless you EAT.

Finally, the very first step you're going to have to take if you want to feel better is to accept that you are wrong. It may be hard to dispose of those thoughts, but accept that they need to change. Don't say "it's important". Say "I have trouble letting go of the importance I put on hips".

You can see it this way. There is a problem caused by two things:
1. You absolutely want hips
2. You don't have hips

Assuming you can't do anything about point 2 - which, as I said above, isn't entirely true - the only way to resolve the conflict is to work on point 1.

Focusing on point 2 would be like trying to move a wall when the other thing causing the conflict is your trajectory -- Go elsewhere; that's a freaking wall!

Listen, we all have things we thought were absolutely necessary to our appearance, that we would never pass without, that we couldn't live without. Not just trans people. To become happy, you must be able to look at the brighter things and see that the big picture isn't so dark, and that most of the other aspects are much easier to brighten.

If you're willing to be happy, then stop doing the things that do nothing but make you unhappy. That's how adults cope with life.

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And that's precisely what a therapist should help you with. What on Earth are you afraid of? It's not like they'll worsen things.

And the very least I know when it comes to anorexia is never to believe them when they say they look fat. Because for them, near-death-slim is healthy-looking.

And the very least I know about depressed transsexuals is never to believe them when they say nothing about their body is feminine.

And the very least I know about everything is that there is always a bright side, and a way to brighten things up. Both of those.

What shocks me the most about you isn't how depressed you are, but how determined you are to make yourself as unhappy as possible and refuse all help.

(If you want to disprove anything I've said above, my PM box is open for a picture. But be prepared; I might do something terrible: see the good stuff! I hope you don't turn to ash like a vampire exposed to sunlight!)

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Quote from: muuu on October 31, 2012, 08:22:11 AM
well, when I got to this "GID team", they wanted to do some testing (intelligence, personality... and a whole lot more tests including roshak) and some background check ups (eh, asking about my childhood and such). They were satisfied with the tests and agreed I had "GID", and the main doctor person also said that I "scored very high" on AvPD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder ), and that those tests were enough to give a diagnosis.... but I'm not sure if they actually officially gave me one....
I hope this might make it easier to understand why I'm scared of asking my therapist for anything...

I know it might be annoying to have to listen to the same things over and over, and I'm sorry for that. but yeah... I just can't deal with things.

i'm also very scared of therapist, not by any disorder but I just had bad experience in my past.
I dont think I can say much who already been said, but just work out little by little,
its not easy to seach help and to help yourself but you has to be struborn cause it worth to try.

When things are going wrong in your life, try changing "Why should I try that?" for "Why should I not try that?"

You'll agree with me that at this point, it can only go up. Plus, I don't know for you, but for me, it's always reassuring that instead of me having to make my life better, I can put myself in someone else's hands who will take care of guiding me on the right way.

Quote from: muuu on October 31, 2012, 03:48:31 AM
There's not a single thing on me that is feminine, I guess my feet are ok, but I can't build a life around just my feet. Yeah, you can pass without much hips, if it looks somewhat proportionate with the rest of your body. (I'm sorry... I couldn't find Aeris blog)

I may seem childish, but I'm 22 (and a half), and my bones won't change at all, even if they would change a tiny bit, it's not enough to make any difference. I can't gain weight, because I already look really fat, not obese but at least overweight. Maybe it sounds strange, but you'd be shocked if you actually saw me.

There isn't a bright side and I can't just ignore everything that is wrong, I guess there wouldn't be a picture at all then. How the hell am I supposed to be happy? I don't have any interests and there's nothing that makes me happy, the only thing that I care about are the things that are wrong.

Nothing is entirely hopeless. There are other options as far as body mods go. Hip implants. Fat grafts. Tight-lacing. But you're going to need some help with fixing your distorted self-perception anyway. You aren't overweight. You can't be at that BMI. It is a physical impossibility.

There is a disconnect between what you are seeing and what is actually there. This kind of thing isn't super uncommon among trans folks. A lot of us have distorted self-perception. The anorexia is just going to compound it. It can be changed over time. But it takes work.

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Quote from: muuu on October 31, 2012, 02:12:02 PM
I do want help, but I'm too scared to ask for it... ...really too scared to ask for it. My next meeting is in a week, and maybe I won't dare to ask then either and the next week goes the same and so on.
Even if I do managed to ask her, it'll maybe take 3 months, just to get there... like, I don't think I can deal with things for that long.

I get it. I spent 3 years lying to a therapist because I was too scared to ask for help. And when I finally did, he didn't help at all. So it can be bad, sure. But it can also be good. When I finally saw a gender therapist, she was really nice and helpful and it was super easy and smooth. Therapists are people, some are pretty cool, some are not.

You need to find a way to bring the fear down. If they can't help, you can see a different therapist. And they are bound by confidentiality, so there isn't really a lot they can do to hurt you. And if they say something awful, then come back here and tell us, and we'll tell you they are stupid.

Maybe write down what you want to say before? I did that. And then if you are still just too scared to say anything, hand them the note at the end of the session. That way the scary thing is broken up into pieces: writing the note, then giving the note, then getting the reaction. No one thing is too big.

And I mean, you don't have a ton to lose, right? How bad can asking them for help really be? Living with this stuff in your own head is pretty much always harder anyway.

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You don't need to be skinny. You think you do. Not the same.

Now, who cares about how pathetic you look to your therapist, of all people? That's the one person who would never judge you. Even, it's the one person you should even be eager to look pathetic to.

And you already wrote about your problems. Print this topic. Job done. Now you just need to bring it to your appointment and put it on the desk (without a word if you want) at the appointment. Then everything is done, and you can just sit back until she talks to you about it.

It's so simple. Come on, you just need to grab your courage with both hands. A print, a paper in your pocket, a paper on the desk. Three steps. Or does your therapist have an email address? Even easier. Print as PDF, or paste link, then about 4 clicks. Done! If you're too scared, I can even do it for you if you give me the address. Simple and easy.

And you just know there's nothing bad that can come out of this. So make relaying the message to her your priority number one; your one big challenge; the ONE thing you must accomplish. You can do it. You know you can. It's not even remotely complicated.