I just got my T level results and my levels are still low, and they have been low since August. The doctor has increased my dosage again for the second time, but this is really driving me crazy. I can't relax. I feel on edge all the time b/c my levels are not right yet. I mean, I feel fine, but I can't relax b/c I feel like I'm slowly reverting back to female and and I'm not getting any changes. I haven't got'n any changes in a over a year. I still have a hard time passing and my voice hasn't changed much since the start of T. I'm wondering if the andro gel isn't working b/c I'm taking a half tablet of finastride...?

Since the T in my body has been low (way below the normal male range) since August, is the T converting into Estrogen?

Yes, Finastride would prevent you from seeing major changes.  It blocks conversion of testosterone to DHT, which is incredibly important for masculinization (including male pattern balding, of course).

Any testosterone in your body will convert into estrogen, to a small degree, but unless your levels are too high, it wouldn't raise your estrogen levels significantly (and the conversion process won't cause your testosterone levels to drop like you're describing).

Is your doctor monitoring your estrogen and free testosterone levels as well?

My doctor said she was gonna check to see what was turning into estergen. But when someone from the office called me back they just told me my T levels were low. I'm afraid of the breast enlarginging b/c of what is converting into estrogtheen.  My next appointment. Is  with the nurse and that is in December along with another. Blood test. I'm doing monthly blood tested, is that too long to it if my T levels have been low for so long? Sorry for the typos and periods in random spots, this phone keyboard. Is beung being stupid

There are guys out there taking T and finasteride who are still experiencing changes. skylark11 is one of them. I think he started on the medication around a year-ish into T, he's 3 years on T now, and definitely still masculinizing.

QuoteSince the T in my body has been low (way below the normal male range) since August, is the T converting into Estrogen?

If this were true, T wouldn't even work on female-bodied people. When a trans guy gets his first ever T shot his estrogen levels are typically astronomical... (for a guy)

How low of levels are we talking here? Anything above 200 for testosterone levels is "normal" for a guy.

We've seen recent pictures of you... you look much different from pre-T, you have facial hair now, you look unquestionably male. You say you feel fine, so your levels can't be too out of whack. I am going to bet that this is all in your head, and if you aren't passing it's because you must seriously be putting out confusing vibes.

You always blame your height, but height alone doesn't determine gender. It's your worrying that's most likely harming you. It's not healthy to spend your whole life worrying about things like this, please see a therapist and really tackle your self-esteem issues head-on.

And stop waiting for strangers' approval to be yourself... don't go out and wait to act a certain way until they confirm how they're reading you... just be yourself and it will remove all doubt from their minds.

Quote from: tvc15 on November 02, 2012, 08:20:50 PM
There are guys out there taking T and finasteride who are still experiencing changes. skylark11 is one of them. I think he started on the medication around a year-ish into T, he's 3 years on T now, and definitely still masculinizing.

That's good to know, good information to have.  It is something that could slow the rate of masculinization, but I defer to the real experiences of others.

My levels are either 200 or below. Last my doc told My levels were in the 200's. I thought the normal male range was 1500..? My doc did tell me that the android gel was not working

1500 is crazy high. I don't think in men they're supposed to exceed more than 1000... and it's more common for guys to be in "the middle" than on one extreme or the other.

I thought I read somewhere that 1500 was normal...?  I guess what I read was wrong. I was so sure I read 1500 as being normal. So above 200 is supposed to be the normal male range, but nothing below 200 is normal then.  So if my levels are 200 or in the 200's would that be low or normal?

QuoteThere are guys out there taking T and finasteride who are still experiencing changes. skylark11 is one of them. I think he started on the medication around a year-ish into T, he's 3 years on T now, and definitely still masculinizing.

Are they on shots and Finasteride or andro gel and finasteride? I wonder if shots and the gel make a difference while taking finasteride...? I mean would the the shots work better with maintaining your masculization than the andro gel would with finasteride?

QuoteYou say you feel fine, so your levels can't be too out of whack. I am going to bet that this is all in your head, and if you aren't passing it's because you must seriously be putting out confusing vibes.

I hope there not too out of whack but my doctor said the andro gel isn't working at all. I wish it was all in my head. I'm not sure how I'm putting out confusing vibes. I don't have any female mannerism. I've asked my cousin and they told me I don't and they would tell me the truth. I do wear a lot of unisex clothing, so maybe that could be it...? I do now wear a lot of button down shirts.

Besides being short, I just don't think I pass well b/c I don't think I'm too masculine looking. I don't think T has finished masculizing me yet. I feel like I've been on delays with T for a year and a half trying to get my dosage right. And now again I feel like I'm starting over with a new type of T and the way I'm taking it and trying to find my dosage and get my levels right again.

QuoteIt's not healthy to spend your whole life worrying about things like this, please see a therapist and really tackle your self-esteem issues head-on.

I do see a therapist. And everyone says I'm still neutral looking, where I could be read as male or female. So I'm not complete masculinized yet where I'm can be read as male 100% of the time. I'm hope I get out of this neutral stage soon.

QuoteAnd stop waiting for strangers' approval to be yourself... don't go out and wait to act a certain way until they confirm how they're reading you... just be yourself and it will remove all doubt from their minds.

I think I'm at the point now where if someone call me ma'am or any female pronouns I'm gonna say something. I'm sick of being called ma'am, miss, she, and her. And my voice is still way too high and I hate that so much. I wondering if that has anything to do with getting female pronouns thrown my way...? But sometimes they call me ma'am without my saying a word, but they never correct themselves after they hear my voice.

The last time I talked to you, your dosage seemed REALLY low, and now you are on the gel--it seems to get slower results--and finasteride to boot. I don't know anything about gel dosage, and the gel's slowness is something I haven't been able to confirm, but I do know that figuring out the right amount of gel can take some time.

Young guys are supposed to have higher T levels than older guys, so total T that is much less than 300 is pretty low if you are under fifty. And guys who are going through puberty should actually have quite high levels. But from what I've read, 1500 is way too high for a normal adult, although adolescents can run up to maybe 1200 or 1300. One clinic that posts its preferences online says to shoot for 350-700; I suppose that is total testosterone. And Dr. Nick Gorton notes that 290-900 is normal range for non-trans men.

I have been on finasteride for quite some time, and I know that it has interfered some with my masculinization. I took a break from it for three and a half months. During that time, I suddenly acquired quite a lot more hair than I had had before, and my facial hair started coming in thicker and coarser. I also went through another major vocal change, but that could have been one of those effects whose time had come. I've had a lot of vocal shifts in my three and a half years on T. No way to tell how much the finasteride has messed with that.

Sounds like you just need to play with your dosage some more? But if you're getting regular blood tests and are still experimenting with dosage, it sounds like you are on the right track. You're at a disadvantage because your dose was so low for so long, and the gel situation probably isn't helping. But as I said, I don't know much about the gel.

The constant stressing out cannot be good for you, but most of us worry more or less about the changes.

@Arch: I've heard, (not sure if it was you or not) that finasteride shouldn't effect facial hair growth, right? I've noticed the hair on my face and body is coming in much much slower than before. I'd like to be able to grow a beard while still taking finasteride. I've noticed I've been loosing weight and muscle mass for quit some time now and it's making me nervous that I'm slowly reverting back to female. I mean, if I was starting to revert back, wouldn't weight loss and muscle loss be a side effect?  When I look in the mirror I see myself slowly losing masculinity. Sometime I think that the fat is redistributing back to female. My mom and my grandmother have noticed I'm losing weight, and I haven't changed my diet. I'm still eating junk food. Part of me wants to stop the finastride so I can masculizes more, but I have a long, long, long, etc... way to go to masculizes more.

From my understanding, taking finaseride you will not lose your masculinity that you have gained from T,  but it will not masculizes you any further, it will just maintain whatever changes you had prior to taking finasteride... am I correct?

Also wondering, since my facial hair is still patchy on one side will it continue to be patchy as long as I'm taking the finastride? And the side that's patchy, the hair is lighter, and the hair on the other side is darker. Will this ever get corrected while still taking finastride?

Muscle mass is a temporary gain; you need to keep taking T to maintain it. If you are on a low dose of T (or if your levels are too low) and are taking finasteride, I would think that you could lose muscle mass. But I'm not a doctor or a pharmacist.

As I mentioned, my facial hair started coming in more when I was off the finasteride, so I think that med has been slowing me down in that respect.

I seem to still lose quite a bit of head hair while on the meds--although that sped up a little while I was off them--so I have decided that I have little to lose by going off finasteride for even longer to see what will happen. You see, I started getting new body hair while I was off finasteride, and I really want more--plus I want better facial hair. So I've decided to take a vacation from finasteride for at least six months, just to see how things go. I should be running out in about two weeks.

I know you're a really young guy and don't want to lose your hair. I hope that you just need to find the right dosage of T to maintain your transition even while you are on finasteride.

Thanks Arch.

My closest friend started losing his hair when he was...well, let's just say that he was twenty-four when I met him, and he had already lost a lot of hair. He was noticeably balding. Now, fourteen years later, he has lost it all.

The last time I saw him, I talked about going off finasteride permanently so that I could donate blood on a regular basis (this was before that horrible blood bank experience), and he said, "Are you sure you want to do that? Think about it before you decide." I asked him to elaborate, and he said that he hates being bald, that it's the worst. I said that I was probably just delaying the inevitable, that there was a chance that my masculinization was being held up (I didn't know for sure back then), and that I needed some way of dealing with my high hematocrit that didn't involve lowering my T dose.

He just repeated what he had already said. And I think he's a good-looking guy, although I have to admit that he looked better when he had some hair.

You seem to have the same horror of baldness, and I believe that you went on the gel so you wouldn't have to deal with a needle phobia, is that right? Is it worth it to you to wait longer for your changes if you don't have to inject and you get to keep your hair? I know that finasteride doesn't work optimally for everyone, so it's not a given that you'll keep your hair, but try to give your process a little longer to work. One guy I know says he took a full year and a half to "pass" consistently, and he was on a "full" dose the whole time. Can you just accept that your initial low dosage and now your method of delivery--and maybe the finasteride, too--have slowed you down or will continue to slow you down? Because of these factors, and because everyone is different anyway, you can't reasonably compare your transition with anybody else's.

It's just going to take longer for you. I know it sucks, but there it is.

@Arch: How come your friend doesn't get a wig? That's what I'm gonna do if I go bald.

QuoteYou seem to have the same horror of baldness, and I believe that you went on the gel so you wouldn't have to deal with a needle phobia, is that right?

Yes.

I mean it sucks to have to wait forever to pass, but if I have to wait forever and I get to keep my hair, I guess I'm okay with it. Not really, but I guess I have to wait if I want to keep my hair.

I mentioned alternatives like implants, and he didn't seem interested. I'm not sure why. But he also doesn't make a lot of money. And he's very careful with what he does make. I've never seen anyone so tight with a dollar! Half of what he owns, he scavenged.

How much is a good toupee costing these days?

I've seen some on ebay between $20-$30 maybe. Not sure how good they are though. I'm surprised he doesn't want a wig if he's so concern about his hair loss? I mean, I have no income at all, but I will find a way to pay for a wig.

That sounds like a mighty inexpensive hairpiece.

I think my buddy is just resigned to being bald. I mean, he's been that way for years, so it would look awfully funny if he suddenly just showed up to class with a full head of hair.

Yeah, but I mean, I wouldn't care if people knew I wore a wig. I mean, I would rather people not know, but if they do, it's not a big deal. If it makes you look better, why not ware it?