So I was browsing tumblr and see there is something called "truscum" which is basically transmen who reject the idea that being trans is an identity and that it is strictly a medical condition that needs to be taken care of. I don't know how many of you are on tumblr and how many of you are aware of any of this, but I was wondering what people's opinion was on it. What do you think of trans being an identity or something you identify as or strictly as a medical condition that you need to be released from through hormones and/or surgery? I'm aware people can have both stances, but there seems to be a bit of a divide. I don't know if the MTF community has any of this, I'm strictly speaking from an FTM perspective. Although, anyone can weigh in I guess. Thoughts? Opinions?

I see it as an identity that can be validated through surgery and hormones.

However, I absolutely respect anyone who sees it as a medical condition that just needs to be treated.

I think about it this way:

What if there was a way to confirm if someone's brain was actually male oriented through some sorta of technological advancement in fMRI scans or something similar.

Given the prevalence of gate-keeping to get access to surgery and hormones - what if we were required to pass the "provable medical condition" brain scan to be given the OK to proceed with transition?

What if you knew 100% you were male but did not pass the brain scan and therefore were stuck in a female identity indefinitely? How much would that suck?

If it is an identity - it's your choice, for your reasons.  Don't use biology as yet another reason to tell someone they can't be who they need to be in order to be validated and happy with themselves.

I also think focusing on ourselves as broken biologically can lead to an obsession with placing ourselves firmly on one side of the binary. This leads to someone defining their self-worth only through the opinion of others and how well "they pass", which in some cases can be crippling and counter-productive.

edit: "passing" standards are unfortunately reinforced through culture norms and many of us do not want to stand out and be defined by being trans, so people who see being trans* as an identity can still want to be "passable" to make their lives easier.

I view it as a medical condition only.

I am a tumblr. "Truscum" blogger.

I see my transsexualism as purely a medical condition. My concern with this whole "identity" plague are the people who are ignoring the the criteria to even be diagnosed with GID/Transsexualism.

Those who say they are trans but do not suffer from dysphoria and simply don't like the "gender roles" they feel they are expected to take on. I have a hard time believing people who wear this like a badge of honor or something that needs to be taken pride in.

You are either born trans or you are not.

It's simple.

Those who say they are trans because they "feel like dressing like a boy one day and a girl the next" make this condition seem like a joke.

How can we expect professionals and insurance companies to take us seriously when we have these attention seeking individuals running around screaming about how it's an identity and not a medical condition?

It totally boggles my mind how this has become acceptable behavior.

Quote from: Yossarian on November 03, 2012, 11:18:22 PM
I see my transsexualism as purely a medical condition. My concern with this whole "identity" plague are the people who are ignoring the the criteria to even be diagnosed with GID/Transsexualism.

You need external validation to prove you are yourself? You want to be treated like a child who needs permission to be happy? So in your opinion informed consent for hormones and surgery should never be allowed?

You want people to have to exactly conform to one particular narrative spelled out in an arcane DSM, which even most professionals repudiate, in order to get what they need to even exist?

Quote from: Yossarian on November 03, 2012, 11:18:22 PM
Those who say they are trans but do not suffer from dysphoria and simply don't like the "gender roles" they feel they are expected to take on. I have a hard time believing people who wear this like a badge of honor or something that needs to be taken pride in.

You are either born trans or you are not.

So if I don't pass a medical test I don't get to deal with my dysphoria?  I don't see it as a birth defect, but I absolutely need to transition to be happy with myself. You would tell me that I can't?

Quote from: Yossarian on November 03, 2012, 11:18:22 PM
Those who say they are trans because they "feel like dressing like a boy one day and a girl the next" make this condition seem like a joke.

How can the way someone else feels invalidate your own identity?

Quote from: Yossarian on November 03, 2012, 11:18:22 PM
How can we expect professionals and insurance companies to take us seriously when we have these attention seeking individuals running around screaming about how it's an identity and not a medical condition?

Informed consent is also a solution to this problem for hormones.  Most insurance companies in the US don't pay for surgery anyways. In countries with socialized medicine people who have non-conforming gender identities but are not transsexuals all ready have to lie in order to get things paid for. Their choices are not affecting yours in the least as long as the system makes them behave a certain way to even get what they want paid for in the first place. 

You want trans people to keep it to themselves and shamefully hide in the shadows. How does that improve the situation for trans people in the future? How does that make it easier for trans people to be accepted at work and by their friends and families?

Trans people are murdered for being themselves.  Trans people are denied identity validating healthcare.  Trans people are told they can't change their names and gender markers.  Everything you have just said perpetuates this status quo.

But you know what? I respect your opinion absolutely. I won't tell you that you can't have it.  I believe in the absolute right of the individual to define who they are on their own terms. Why would you deny this right to other people?

I'm irritated by anyone who thinks they've got it all figured out (and have made up a new term for it no less) and are running around telling everyone else that their way is the right way and whatever you're thinking is wrong.

If you need to think of it as a medical condition, fine, that's your choice, but do we all need another made-up term?  Could we all just be ourselves and cozy with our individual identities without creating another term and without trying to front some sort of lifestyle-movement-crusade on, for or against other people? Could we all just seek out the treatment we want and/or need without people giving us ->-bleeped-<- for it? Apparently not.

It's like we're all on a large playground calling out people who are different from us. And now we've got people coming down on transsexuals who actually just want to fit into the gender binary acting like it's some sin or something. I mean, I'm not advocating the binary, I wish someday in the future society as a whole would be a-okay with those "in the middle" individuals, but I'm certainly not going to diss someone for just wanting to be who they are. The whole trans community becomes a joke to a lot of people because of dumb stuff like this.

What about people who are stuck, like myself, unable to take hormone therapy for whatever health or personal reasons? Or people, once again like myself, who have a serious phobia and problem with surgery? I'll tell you one thing – it all makes my life real f'ing ->-bleeped-<-ty to have to deal with being labeled a gender that I'm not, but I'm not about to be lumped into someone else's category or terminology just because of the way I live my life. I'm who I am and no one's going to change that, not with a term or a label or anything else. I was far more damaged by therapists and psychologists that labeled me with a mental disease than when I started realizing that there's a ton of variation in nature and if people would have just left me alone or let me make my own decisions I probably would have been infinitely happier.

I also don't think the medical profession is cruising around tumblr to see what everyone are calling themselves these days. After hanging out here for about 2 years now I see a ton of trans people getting treatment they need. A small percentage seem to be caught up in some "gatekeeping" thing, usually because of having a crap therapist who doesn't even understand trans issues or family members who are acting as gatekeepers. Either way, it seems like that a lot of people are being taken seriously by the medical profession.

Hirschfeld first came up with transsexualism and came up with the idea of surgical treatment as early as 1910. "Trans" isn't some new thing. And from that inception, it has evolved. I'm certainly not the one to take the sides of the psychologists and doctors but because of actual important stuff that advocates are doing (not people yapping on tumblr) the DSM was recently changed to replace GID with Gender Dysphoria. That seems like it will open more doors rather than shut them. Even though I'm also not an advocate of the DSM being some be-all-end-all manual for labeling people with conditions I understand that it's an important factor for people being able to get the treatment they want/need. But that also means that people are being taken seriously. Hell even the U.S. VP Biden recently mentioned something about transgender issues being important. People are taking it seriously. What people aren't taking seriously is every new term that comes up on tumblr.

I'm sorry if this comes off a little ranty. I've had a rough day today.

medical condition>identity.

Suggesting some people just identify that way is a little offensive, but I don't have a horse in this race.

That being said, I'd be wary of who is more or less trans discussions, they ALWAYS go awry.

Quote from: Ave on November 04, 2012, 12:00:02 AM
medical condition>identity.

Suggesting some people just identify that way is a little offensive, but I don't have a horse in this race.

That being said, I'd be wary of who is more or less trans discussions, they ALWAYS go awry.

internecine conflict  is not something to be avoided.  It's the most important conversation we can have, in my opinion.  I really hope this thread does not get locked.

I don't have a medical condition.  I am myself. I am sorry that my identity offends you.   I wish I could explain it in a way that would not.   I wish I could find the words to express the fact that there does not need to be a > or <  between the two,  but  a =  instead, in terms of someone just wanting to be happy with themselves, whatever their reasons.

Quote from: spacerace on November 04, 2012, 12:05:09 AM
internecine conflict  is not something to be avoided.  It's the most important conversation we can have, in my opinion.  I really hope this thread does not get locked.

I don't have a medical condition.  I am myself. I am sorry that my identity offends you.   I wish I could explain it in a way that would not.   I wish I could find the words to express the fact that there does not need to be a > or <  between the two,  but  a =  instead, in terms of someone just wanting to be happy with themselves, whatever their reasons.

lol I'm not offended
but if GID were no longer a "thing" wouldn't that effectively kill insurance payments for hormones and SRS? These things then become elective, and if they are elective they will no longer be covered by any reputable insurance company.

Quote from: Ave on November 04, 2012, 12:09:19 AM

but if GID were no longer a "thing" wouldn't that effectively kill insurance payments for hormones and SRS? These things then become elective, and if they are elective they will no longer be covered by any reputable insurance company.

yep, pretty much.

Quote from: Ave on November 04, 2012, 12:09:19 AM
lol I'm not offended
but if GID were no longer a "thing" wouldn't that effectively kill insurance payments for hormones and SRS? These things then become elective, and if they are elective they will no longer be covered by any reputable insurance company.

I pretty much feel the same way @spacerace, yet I also fully acknowledge the importance of the diagnosis because that's how treatment is obtained, how it can be covered by insurance, etc. What I don't get is why people have to attack one another or say things can only be one way. The whole gender spectrum already exists. In my opinion it's existed since life began (and even exists in the animal kingdom). Let the people who need the treatment get it and leave the people who are fine with their identities alone.

Quote from: Ave on November 04, 2012, 12:09:19 AM
lol I'm not offended
but if GID were no longer a "thing" wouldn't that effectively kill insurance payments for hormones and SRS? These things then become elective, and if they are elective they will no longer be covered by any reputable insurance company.

My insurance covers nothing.  I chose informed consent. I will pay for surgery entirely out of pocket.  It is taking me forever to save the money for it.

You can't hide behind a broken healthcare system to deny someone else their identity .

Edit:  Considering things like insurance standards in the US, and government healthcare bright-lines in countries with socialized medicine, lets bureaucrats define who gets to be themselves.   That is what you want when you say "but doesn't this affect my healthcare?"

I also recognize that without insurance, some people will never get surgery or hormones.  This system sucks, but that doesn't mean that non-binary identities subtract from what what it means to be trans*

I have watched documentaries on children, five, six years old, who are men and women, but they weren't born that way. And how they were looked at by psychologists, half of the psychologists said that this should be allowed, the other half said that this should be discouraged and tried to kill that in them. And I just feel like that very few people can come into the feeling of their biological gender, but people have done it out of necessity, other than that, I feel it's wrong to force someone to be who they are not.

Well I think it is both, but I don't think what I have is gender identity *disorder*. I think it is a part of a continuum of what is "normal". (Normal, is, of course, a dryer setting.)
I don't know how you would know you had this medical condition, if you didn't have feelings inside that told you what your identity was.

--Jay J

Quote from: Yossarian on November 03, 2012, 11:18:22 PM
Those who say they are trans because they "feel like dressing like a boy one day and a girl the next" make this condition seem like a joke.

And just because how I view myself effects you...?
I invite you to comment on my other threads.

Quote from: spacerace on November 03, 2012, 11:40:21 PM
You need external validation to prove you are yourself? You want to be treated like a child who needs permission to be happy? So in your opinion informed consent for hormones and surgery should never be allowed?

That's not what I said. In order to be trans you must suffer from body dysphoria. If you do not. You are not trans. Simple. Why would someone who does not suffer from body dysphoria want to transition?

QuoteYou want people to have to exactly conform to one particular narrative spelled out in an arcane DSM, which even most professionals repudiate, in order to get what they need to even exist?

The DSM is becoming a joke, next thing you know otherkin will be included and it'll have people transitioning into a paper bag if that's how they identify.

QuoteSo if I don't pass a medical test I don't get to deal with my dysphoria?  I don't see it as a birth defect, but I absolutely need to transition to be happy with myself. You would tell me that I can't?

The thing is you do in fact suffer from dysphoria. I am speaking about those who do not. Body dysphoria is pretty much the only real symptom of transsexualism.

Again I ask how one can be trans and not experience dysphoria.

QuoteHow can the way someone else feels invalidate your own identity?

I have a medical condition. It has nothing to do with my identity.

Quote
Informed consent is also a solution to this problem for hormones.  Most insurance companies in the US don't pay for surgery anyways. In countries with socialized medicine people who have non-conforming gender identities but are not transsexuals all ready have to lie in order to get things paid for. Their choices are not affecting yours in the least as long as the system makes them behave a certain way to even get what they want paid for in the first place.

Hmm... I wonder why most insurance companies don't pay for it. Oh that's right, because they already don't see transsexualism as a legitimate medical condition.

Gender non-conforming individuals need to not lie and claim they are transsexual when they are not. People can not like certain things about themselves and deal with it how they see fit but do not appropriate a medical condition to do it. People have already proven that gender non-conforming individuals can get the treatment they want without doing so.

QuoteYou want trans people to keep it to themselves and shamefully hide in the shadows. How does that improve the situation for trans people in the future? How does that make it easier for trans people to be accepted at work and by their friends and families?

Excuse me? Don't make an ass out of yourself by assuming things I "want".

Transsexuals can be as out as they want to. That's not my business and I don't care but at least they are in fact transsexual and not just pretending because trans is the new black.

For us (and by us I mean truscum blogger), the point of transitioning from one "sex" to the other is to decrease dysphoria and blend in with the rest of society so we can live our everyday lives in peace.

I don't know about those who run around waving their trans flags everywhere but once you're transitioned and seen as "just another guy" it becomes easier and you'll have other things to worry about.

We have a medical condition and do not want it glorified.

QuoteTrans people are murdered for being themselves.  Trans people are denied identity validating healthcare.  Trans people are told they can't change their names and gender markers.  Everything you have just said perpetuates this status quo.

Transsexual people are murdered because there are ignorant people out there who hate us. Not for being themselves. For those who can't get their documents changed over that sucks and only the changing of laws will make it easier.

But in order to change the laws people must take us seriously.

QuoteBut you know what? I respect your opinion absolutely. I won't tell you that you can't have it.  I believe in the absolute right of the individual to define who they are on their own terms. Why would you deny this right to other people?

People can define/identify how ever they want. Just don't appropriate a medical condition to do it.

Quote from: aleon515 on November 04, 2012, 12:21:57 AM
Well I think it is both, but I don't think what I have is gender identity *disorder*. I think it is a part of a continuum of what is "normal". (Normal, is, of course, a dryer setting.)
I don't know how you would know you had this medical condition, if you didn't have feelings inside that told you what your identity was.

--Jay J

My feelings never told me what to identify as, I don't have to identify as anything because my feelings tell me I am a man.  I am a man, and I'm taking medical steps to fix my problem.

Quote from: Ave on November 04, 2012, 12:00:02 AM
medical condition>identity.

Suggesting some people just identify that way is a little offensive, but I don't have a horse in this race.

That being said, I'd be wary of who is more or less trans discussions, they ALWAYS go awry.

This is a good point, which all should remember.

As a support site, we recognize the entire transgender spectrum.  "->-bleeped-<-r than thou" and "true transsexual" advocates are not welcome.

With that said, the issue of GID as a diagnosis, and the concept of "gatekeepers" as impediments to receiving care, are valid topics of discussion.

It is impossible for me to see it as an identity.

Identities change over time. it depends on how much you grow as a person, the people you surround yourself by, the things you do. All those things have changed multiple times in my life, and certain aspects of my identity have changed. No one has the exact same identity, or even personality, as they did when they were a kid.

Being trans is something that will never change, and can never change. I see no problem with viewing it as a medical condition. There's no shame in that, although some people seem to see it as an insult to trans people, and I think that's why many choose the term "identity." That said...All of the doctors and psychiatrists I have dealt with agree that while we don't understand the exact mechanism for how transsexualism occurs, it happens on a biological level. Despite that they've never treated me like I am diseased, just like a human being who needs help, through medication and surgery, in order to be healthy and functional.

I don't see why we need to apply ID politics to that at all, personally.

Quote from: Two way Rain on November 04, 2012, 12:24:46 AM
And just because how I view myself effects you...?
I invite you to comment on my other threads.

Because wearing men's clothing does NOT make you FTM transgender.