Do any of you feel like you can pass (even a little) and then you find out that you are not "there" yet from others. OR  Do you feel like you don't pass, but those around you say you do? How can and do you figure that out. I am finding that I tend to go back and forth with this. I rarely wear make-up, because I don't feel the need to. However, I think that it honestly helps me out. Some days, I feel great about myself, but most days, I do not. I am really fighting hard this depression over this. And because of certain big situations looming over my head, I can't go as fast as I wanted to. At the moment, I've been on Hormones for close to two years. But, my hormones needed a bit of a boost and I would say things really started changing around a year and a half ago with major changes to my body and face. But, I have a really weird sense of where I am at. Meaning, I can't tell if I am too this or too that. My body dysphoria is very intense and my gender dysphoria is a little better. When I go out, I get ma'amed a lot and I get sir'd too occasionally. Again, this causes such confusion for me. I've posted on here a few times and the comments have been minimal, which I would be ready to hear the truth even though I know it would be hard for me. Your thoughts on stuff like this?

Here are a few pics of me as well. Maybe that would help so that you can see what I am talking about.
Thank you so much for your time.

Eyeliner but no make-up.



Hair's a little on the wet side. And no make-up except a little eyeliner.


I am 6ft tall so I'm sure THAT doesn't help either, but for now I'm just interested in the face first.

Thanks!

I feel the same duplicity of passing and not passing. At times, I will feel I am passing farely well. Then, something will happen that will cause me to realize I am not passing. Other times I will feel horrible about myself, and "know" I am not passing. Again, something will happen to change my point of view. I think most of us go through this from time to time. I am not concerned about it as I know I am still early on in my transition.

You don't look like a man, you have strong features on your face, but so do a lot of woman. The make up helps but you look perfectly fine, and perfectly feminine without it. You're a very pretty girl so you don't need make up. On account of your height, I am jealous of woman with such height

I rarely feel like I'm passing to anyone and most people just humor me.  I can't break that mindset no matter what others try to tell me. In a way though, I think it helps me to a degree because I've learned to stop worrying about it so much and just go on and be myself regardless. It seems to work for the most part.

Stephanie,
I'm going to chime in with everyone else.  I'm not seeing your features as being overwhelmingly male.  You have some strong features, but many, many women do including celebrities.  I know that it's easy to be hard on yourself if you're depressed, and depression comes easy to many in transition. 

I don't think that height as big a problem as build.  You don't have broad shoulders, so that isn't outing you, either. 

The only thing that you might consider (and I don't know whether you're full time or not) is to get a more feminine hairstyle.  I think that would tip the scales toward the feminine side.  You already have a feminine hairline, so that's not a problem. 

If I were with you in person, I'd give you a big hug and say "Hang in there!  It's going to get better".  And it will.

Probably has to do with shifting moods/level of confidence because you look much more female than male to me... When you're sad/angry you come off as more masculine and this is true for everybody. Now obviously we're clueless about your voice/ overall demeanor but if those are fine it's mostly a matter of these 2 factors: Mood/confidence.

Yeah, all the time. Some days I'm like, "lol, look at that, who'd believe I'm a guy?" and then no one genders me as female at all that day. Other days, I'm all "ugh, look at that ugly, muscular, blah, blah, blah" and I get gendered female even after saying my (very) male name.

Quote from: Seyranna on November 02, 2012, 03:10:15 PM
Probably has to do with shifting moods/level of confidence because you look much more female than male to me... When you're sad/angry you come off as more masculine and this is true for everybody. Now obviously we're clueless about your voice/ overall demeanor but if those are fine it's mostly a matter of these 2 factors: Mood/confidence.

I so agree.  There are days I am not in the mood and know I don't pass.  My confidence goes out the window.

First of all, based on looks alone IDK how people can call you a sir. At worst they may be suspicious but even at that point they should see you're dressed as a female and just assume you're female so that they don't offend you "if you are a girl" ... make sense? However, maybe your voice is killing it all and people just want to be rude.

Second of all, when people see you as female, the entire mood is different. They talk to you differently, especially men. I've noticed that men are much, much more intuitive than women on reading a trans girl. If people see you as female without a doubt they will ma'am you without hesitation. Of course there are those out there who are knowing of trans related issues and will maam you. This is when knowing and understanding how people (especially men) treat cis women comes in handy.

Third of all I have the same issues as you. Some days I think I pass and I'm the prettiest girl I'll run into all day. Other days I wanna hide under the covers because I'm fearful that today will be the first day I've been clocked in so many months. Honestly, I think part of it is hormones. Testosterone makes people confident... lack of it is gonna drain your confidence. Also, you have to remember that you've been looking at yourself in the mirror every day of your life for the past so many years. You aren't going to be able to help looking in it and seeing at least a residual effect of yourself... and for me it's so strong that sometimes I look in the mirror and ask myself what in the world changed... even though countless people have commented on how much I have indeed changed.

You can always get bold... go out and talk to people, then tell people you're trans and see their reactions. Or better yet, get a friend to out you behind your back and have them tell you the response. That is one way I know I pass at least 95% of the time, even on the days I feel like I look super crappy.

I have to be brutally honest. The pictures reveal the makings of a gorgeous beautiful woman. Beautiful eyes! Nice lips and smile.

But...the nose and brow-bossing might be problematic. In fact, the brow bossing is not that bad from what I can tell. Maybe some kind of brow lift and rhinoplasty would be all you would need to become a total knockout. 

That said though, I would rate you "highly passable" as is but I just wanted to be honest as to why some will be able to read you.

QuoteDo any of you feel like you can pass (even a little) and then you find out that you are not "there" yet from others. OR  Do you feel like you don't pass, but those around you say you do?

This is kind of interesting for you to say but I saw one trans woman ask for advice about if she passed from trans people and they were all very positive and said she passed. Then much later I found the same pictures in a place with more people that was dedicated to having people (mainly cis men) tell you if they thought you were attractive or not. They all said she was "obviously" a man and made very hurtful comments. So I went back and looked at the pictures, but no matter how I tried I couldn't see what the cis men were seeing. I just saw a woman.

Sometimes what trans people think is just so far off from how other people will actually perceive. I don't specifically mean that we think trans people pass when they don't... that can happen, but we also sometimes say trans people can't pass when in their day to day life they actually are doing just that. And then if we're wrong we chalk up to "mannerisms," "voice," etc... basically we blame it on the things we can't see so we can go on thinking our perceptions are accurate. But with that one woman I mentioned earlier, my perceptions just weren't accurate at all.

It's strange, though. And then of course sometimes you can pass one hundred percent to one person and 0% to the person standing next to her, even if they're both cis or whatever normative thing.

Oh by the way: you are cute.

Quote from: Carbon on November 03, 2012, 07:10:27 PM


It's strange, though. And then of course sometimes you can pass one hundred percent to one person and 0% to the person standing next to her, even if they're both cis or whatever normative thing.

People gender you as male or female or, possibly, androgynous, so its always 100% one way or the other...unless they can't make up their mind...then I guess you might call that 50%. 

Really though, Stephanie has a lot going for her appearance wise. Yet, realistically, some will read her especially at six feet.

I know as I live in an area where if a woman is very tall, she is assumed to be trans. (SF Bay Area)I heard a story recently in which a 6'4" African-American cis-woman was exiting BART and some black guy accused her of being trans. She yelled at the guy, "I ain't no GD man, M-F'er" and slugged the guy. BART police had to be called. I wish someone would have caught this on camera!

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on November 03, 2012, 09:06:56 PM
People gender you as male or female or, possibly, androgynous, so its always 100% one way or the other...unless they can't make up their mind...then I guess you might call that 50%. 

Really though, Stephanie has a lot going for her appearance wise. Yet, realistically, some will read her especially at six feet.

I know as I live in an area where if a woman is very tall, she is assumed to be trans. (SF Bay Area)I heard a story recently in which a 6'4" African-American cis-woman was exiting BART and some black guy accused her of being trans. She yelled at the guy, "I ain't no GD man, M-F'er" and slugged the guy. BART police had to be called. I wish someone would have caught this on camera!

It's also frame size, feet and hand size, and voice. Individually those characteristics don't matter, but at 6ft a trans woman would usually set off  some people's radar and it helps to have as many pluses in your column as possible.

Quote from: Ave on November 03, 2012, 11:53:51 PM
It's also frame size, feet and hand size, and voice. Individually those characteristics don't matter, but at 6ft a trans woman would usually set off  some people's radar and it helps to have as many pluses in your column as possible.

I once encountered a 6'4" naked white woman with a large frame and big hands and feet standing next to me at the mirror in the locker woman. She was one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen in my life. I almost fainted. 

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on November 03, 2012, 09:06:56 PM
People gender you as male or female or, possibly, androgynous, so its always 100% one way or the other...unless they can't make up their mind...then I guess you might call that 50%. 

That's basically what I meant. Some people are going to have the reaction "Wait, is that person male or female? I guess they're female." So then if someone came and said "That person is actually a trans woman" they could say "Oh yeah, I can see that now," but they still get 60-90 percent pass (some cis women only get 60-90 percent pass for some reason, too, so it doesn't necessarily mean you are doing bad. I have a friend who told me she got earrings specifically so people would be more likely to refer to her as female. I couldn't see any maleness in her either.). 

But if someone else got told "That person is a trans woman" they might think "I really can't see it at all." That's what I meant by one hundred percent: just not being able to see any male cues, even if you know to look for them. This is the situation with the woman I mentioned on the other website because I couldn't figure out what the cis men were noticing to gender her male.

QuoteReally though, Stephanie has a lot going for her appearance wise. Yet, realistically, some will read her especially at six feet.

Well, realistically any woman is going to get some junk at six feet, not because people at six feet don't pass but just because people are mean.

I agree about Stephanie having a lot going for her though. Those pictures are definitely at the point where I can only see "male cues" if I'm told to look for them, there's nothing male about the pictures to me.

Quote from: Carbon on November 04, 2012, 08:16:09 AM
This is the situation with the woman I mentioned on the other website because I couldn't figure out what the cis men were noticing to gender her male.

One person out of many were probably perceptive enough to pick up on it, and everybody else read the comment. Also, I've seen pictures of very pretty women on Facebook that I'm willing to bet every straight guy on the planet would want to take out, where a man comments "She's ugly!" and every guy under that comment pretty much agrees... it's like, um well don't have an opinion for yourself please!

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on November 04, 2012, 09:03:13 AM
One person out of many were probably perceptive enough to pick up on it, and everybody else read the comment. Also, I've seen pictures of very pretty women on Facebook that I'm willing to bet every straight guy on the planet would want to take out, where a man comments "She's ugly!" and every guy under that comment pretty much agrees... it's like, um well don't have an opinion for yourself please!

I've definitely noticed that too so maybe you're right.

I remember talking to my father about how at this camp I used to go to when I was a child*, around middle school age there was this one girl that every thought was so attractive and they kept talking about how hot she was. I didn't get it. I mean sure, she looked nice enough, but so did most of the other girls there. I kept going to the camp through high school age and then people started talking about how ugly she was. I was like uh, what, she basically looks the same as she did a few years ago.

(The part I didn't mention to my father is that one year they picked a new girl that everyone except me and one guy said they wanted to date. The one guy just said that he didn't feel like they could have a personal connection so he didn't want to date her even though she looked amazing, I was the only one who was like "Well she doesn't look incredible or something to me relative to other people.")

My father said something like, "Well at that age a lot of time people just focus on on one thing like 'Oh she has big boobs' and as they get older that changes." And I'm thinking, well, the actual criteria changes but the behavior really doesn't because people keep focusing on arbitrary stuff or other people's reactions.

*Note: At this point I didn't "know I was trans." I knew that I would prefer to be a girl and I had this unexplainable and covert interest in orchiectomy, but I didn't know I was trans and thought that my experience was part of being male/wasn't necessarily different from other males.

Quote from: UCBerkeleyPostop on November 04, 2012, 12:15:02 AM
I once encountered a 6'4" naked white woman with a large frame and big hands and feet standing next to me at the mirror in the locker woman. She was one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen in my life. I almost fainted.

whatever floats your boat, being larger than average will certainly draw attention and scrutiny though .

Quote from: Ave on November 04, 2012, 12:00:48 PM
whatever floats your boat, being larger than average will certainly draw attention and scrutiny though .

Why is it that you feel obligated to respond with a snarky comment to virtually all my posts? This is a rhetorical question, of course, as I know why it is.