'Gender Identity Disorder' to Go the Way of Homosexuality
By Amelia Rachel Hokule'a Borofsky

Oct 29 2012, 1:45 PM ET

Western psychiatry's struggle to characterize those who do not identify with prescribed gender roles looks to be analogous to the history of homosexuality, which was a diagnosis (in at least some form) until 1987.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/gender-identity-disorder-to-go-the-way-of-homosexuality/264232/

When asked, "What are you?" Cocoa Chandelier confidently replies, "I am māhu. Not ma-hu or mahU, but māhu."

In Native Hawaiian culture, māhu represents a third gender -- someone who embodies both male and female qualities. In old Hawai'i, māhus entertained the chiefs and people held them in high regard. Māhus distinctively had higher powers because they embodied the best of male and female qualities, making them confidants, kumu hulas (dance teachers) and spiritual leaders.

Native American epistemology has a similar concept of the two-spirit or third gendered individual. Native Activist and scholar Will Roscoe found documentation of third and even fourth genders in more than 150 North American tribes. In Samoa, the term fa'afafine refers to a biological man who lives as a woman. Samoans appreciate fa'afafine for their hard work and dedication to family, and for the large part offer them social acceptance.

Western psychiatry, on the other hand, is still trying to figure out how to conceptualize people like Chandelier. In May 2013, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) will unveil the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5).

Doesn't this paint the psychological community and a bad light? I mean,  a few weeks ago I received a diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder. Apparently that remains a disordered condition until next spring, when it will no longer be.

Am I the only one who thinks "you're disordered, but as of next May when we publish our next guide you'll only be dysphoric" sounds patently ridiculous?

Doesn't this make psych diagnoses seem political instead of scientific?

Or is it just me?

 It does seem that way, doesn't it?

It's not supposed to be, but I don't see how politics, or at least severe opinions from influential doctors, doesn't enter into it.

But, regardless, the idea that being trans isn't something that needs to be "cured", just like homosexuality, is very good progress.

Homosexualality is a natural condition, and no longer is defined as something that needs to be fixed.  Being trans is the same.  We don't want to be fixed to become "normal".  We are NORMAL!  Whatever that means.

We want our lives to be the way WE think they should be.  Not the way that someone else thinks it should be.

This change in very good.  The wording is inelegant in my opinion, but it is progress.

-Sandy

I'm not normal, nor do I want to be.  My mental, emotional and psychological state however, is not deviant, disturbed or morally wrong.  I do suffer from a condition, much like others suffer from a myriad of other medical conditions.  Treatment helps and there should be no stigma for seeking help whatsoever.

Quote from: ashley_thomas on November 04, 2012, 08:21:43 AM
I'm not normal, nor do I want to be.  My mental, emotional and psychological state however, is not deviant, disturbed or morally wrong.  I do suffer from a condition, much like others suffer from a myriad of other medical conditions.  Treatment helps and there should be no stigma for seeking help whatsoever.

Sounds like the preamble to a Transgender Declaration Of Independence to me!!!

Quote from: Zythyra on October 30, 2012, 10:36:34 AM

Western psychiatry, on the other hand, is still trying to figure out how to conceptualize people like Chandelier. In May 2013, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) will unveil the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5).

Western civilization is so backward in some respects. So many of the third world countries understand and respect their bi-gendered as being close to the spiritual realm. A native American friend tole me that in his culture a hundred years ago I would have been highly regarded and could become the tribal shaman. Even the bible indicates that in the next life there will be no gender distinctions. So much for and thanks to the Puritan influence the first North American bigots.

I think one day it will go the way of Homosexuality.  Transsexuality and Transgendered will become another version of the human condition.  I would hope that it will be listed as a medical condition so that it does get covered by insurances.

But I don't think it will very soon.  It takes too long for the DSM to be rewritten.

I can see why people compare the historical situation of homosexuality to the current situation of transsexuality - I've done so myself on occasion. But in one sense they are not at all comparable: homosexuality is not a "condition" that requires any treatment, whereas transsexuality generally needs some kind of medical intervention - pharmaceutical or surgical. This inevitably makes them different in people's minds.

In a lot of ways, it would be more helpful to compare transsexuality to other congenital conditions that used to be untreatable and have stigma attached to them, like thyroid problems. I'd like to think that at some point in the future, people will be able to say "oh yes, I was born with transsexuality, but I had corrective surgery, and now I just need to take hormones to keep me well" and it'll just be seen as a condition like hyperthyroid or something - instead of the "mental condition" it's still regarded as in some quarters.

It's kind of a self-stoking cycle where the stigma attached to being trans causes trans people to present with mental anguish, which is then presumed to be a part of the condition - when in fact it's just a consequence of social conditioning. In cultures where it isn't an issue (or wasn't, pre- Christian intervention), there was no anguish involved, because being trans was just an assimilated part of that culture.

I'm very tired of hearing people make value judgments about how the gay community has higher incidence of unsafe activity and mental health problems, when it's the stigma and homophobia surrounding queer folk that is causing this. Now there is where being transsexual or homosexual has its strongest similarities - in the appalling way we're treated by others.

Quote from: Padma on November 05, 2012, 02:26:42 AM
I can see why people compare the historical situation of homosexuality to the current situation of transsexuality - I've done so myself on occasion. But in one sense they are not at all comparable: homosexuality is not a "condition" that requires any treatment, whereas transsexuality generally needs some kind of medical intervention - pharmaceutical or surgical.

This is exactly what some of the more vociferous campaigners seem to have lost sight of. I am reminded of women in this country (UK) campaigning for equal pension rights to men and they won, but as a result their pension age went up from 60 to 65. They are now equal - and worse off.

I would far rather that GID stayed in the manual, but maybe change 'Disorder' to 'Dysphoria'.

Quote from: Sandy on November 04, 2012, 07:58:54 AM
Being trans is the same.  We don't want to be fixed to become "normal".  We are NORMAL!  Whatever that means.

I disagree. We are not normal. Normal people do not have a mismatch between their body and their internal gender. We are a tiny percentage of the population, way, way less than 1% by number so any any reasonable definition we are not 'normal'.

We can become normal by getting our minds and bodies aligned with each other and that does require some 'fixing' - what else is HRT and SRS?

But... just because we are not 'normal' and we require help does not mean that we should be treated like dirt.

We're not less "normal" - we're just less common. It's normal for a certain small percentage of the world population to be trans, and to need help with that.

I know this sounds picky - but it's very easy to go from "not normal" to "not right", and certain transphobic folk make a meal of that.

Quote from: Padma on November 05, 2012, 04:43:45 AM
We're not less "normal" - we're just less common. It's normal for a certain small percentage of the world population to be trans, and to need help with that.

I know this sounds picky - but it's very easy to go from "not normal" to "not right", and certain transphobic folk make a meal of that.

I can see where you are coming from and I am not picky enough to argue about it.

I can see where you're coming from too - I've just been round this once already being bisexual, and having both straight and gay people telling me I'm "against nature" , so I'm wary of labelling myself as "not normal", or being labelled as such. But I do see what you mean, we're not "normal" where "normal" just means "doesn't have a medical condition."

Quote from: Padma on November 05, 2012, 05:31:23 AM
But I do see what you mean, we're not "normal" where "normal" just means "doesn't have a medical condition."

Yes. Exactly that.

I do not usually get in to these sorts of definitional disputes - I leave them to those who enjoy such things - but I am in a funny mood today because my face is covered in bristles for electro tomorrow. I always get a bit 'touchy' when I am in this state. My equivalent of PMT I suppose. It even happens once a month......

Quote from: Zythyra on October 30, 2012, 10:36:34 AM
'Gender Identity Disorder' to Go the Way of Homosexuality
By Amelia Rachel Hokule'a Borofsky

Oct 29 2012, 1:45 PM ET

Western psychiatry's struggle to characterize those who do not identify with prescribed gender roles looks to be analogous to the history of homosexuality, which was a diagnosis (in at least some form) until 1987.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/gender-identity-disorder-to-go-the-way-of-homosexuality/264232/

When asked, "What are you?" Cocoa Chandelier confidently replies, "I am māhu. Not ma-hu or mahU, but māhu."

In Native Hawaiian culture, māhu represents a third gender -- someone who embodies both male and female qualities. In old Hawai'i, māhus entertained the chiefs and people held them in high regard. Māhus distinctively had higher powers because they embodied the best of male and female qualities, making them confidants, kumu hulas (dance teachers) and spiritual leaders.

Native American epistemology has a similar concept of the two-spirit or third gendered individual. Native Activist and scholar Will Roscoe found documentation of third and even fourth genders in more than 150 North American tribes. In Samoa, the term fa'afafine refers to a biological man who lives as a woman. Samoans appreciate fa'afafine for their hard work and dedication to family, and for the large part offer them social acceptance.

Western psychiatry, on the other hand, is still trying to figure out how to conceptualize people like Chandelier. In May 2013, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) will unveil the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition (DSM-5).

I find it interesting how the transgender movement has a lot in common with the anti-slavery movement. The common bond is being treated like, "we're less than human." It's the effect of "othering"; if they aren't like you they're not in your category; therefore they are "other" or "alien".

I'm currently doing an essay on what it means to be "real". It's tied into the Pygmalion myth. I think I will be interesting as it will stray a bit into talking about being transgender mtf/ftm and what it means to be a "real" wo/man. Pretty controversial eh?

Note- I had to use the Canadian Stereotypical "eh". And no...we don't live in igloos and ride polar bears ROFL. (I'm Canadian)

It just reminds me of being at school, and how the "cool" kids were somehow also the ones who got to decide what was "cool" so that they stayed "cool". Pff. Normal may well be a setting on a dryer, but some of us get by just fine without needing a dryer .

"Normal" is a subjective, value judgement that may date back to a term used by a eugenicist to describe ability. 

I realize some people don't use it this way but so many do that many people will perceive it in that light if you use the term. Obviously, we are not common, typical, etc, if you choose to focus on certain things but these are facts.

Quote from: bev2 on November 05, 2012, 05:38:26 AM
...but I am in a funny mood today because my face is covered in bristles for electro tomorrow. I always get a bit 'touchy' when I am in this state. My equivalent of PMT I suppose. It even happens once a month......

Oh yes, I get Stubble Trouble in my heart too . I feel your pain.