soooooo, i think alot about my own perception of myself.  i don't quite understand it but i can't be the only person who feels this way.  it may be SRS fear?  it may be more gender confusion?  maybe a fear of having a relationship with someone and being a woman with a penis?  or a man with boobs?  please don't flame me for those comments, just merely thinking aloud. 

so i feel like these feelings stem from my sexuality.  ok, ill try to explain, but my sexuality basically tells me with big bright flashing neon words "be a girl."  now growing up, i had been able to make EVERYTHING ELSE about me ignore this flashing neon sign, but my sexuality has never changed.  it created a desperate longing to be a girl.  it created a young boy crying himself to sleep wishing to be a girl, then wishing to wake up and only have girls clothes, then just wishing to dream as a girl, then just wishing to be wearing girls clothes... then giving up on wishing and trying to forget.  i'm sure many of you have those same stories?  maybe not?  never has my conscious mind said "i am girl" and ill be honest, it scares the hell out of me.  it means to me that either people who say they've know they are a girl and are 100% about getting vagina are either wishing on a star and trying to convince themselves, or maybe i'm just not meant for SRS?  but that doesn't eliminate by need to be a girl.  ughh i don't feel like i am being clear here.

so i have been trying to find more information about detransition and SRS regret.  i have read Van's postings here and talked to him in email about him being androgenous now.  his postings most def resonated within me.  i also read somethings on sexchangeregret.com or something?  its an old guy who transitioned after being married/kids and then detransitioned after 7 or 8 years after SRS.  now its easy for me to look at his argument and say... well you had a lifetime of being a guy, you never looked like a female and you just couldn't get over that fact?  also the fact that it ruined your relantionships with family, children?  of course you're going to carry that guilt around and it may be strong enough to make you detransition.  maybe you're jealous of young kids being able to live as their preferred gender almost exclusively without ever having forced to live as a boy?  i feel that jealousy.  i wish i could erase my childhood and replace it with a girls.... not that my childhood was bad by any means, but i just feel like it contradicts who i am today.

F, am i making sense?  maybe the people who detransition and have perspectives on this topic don't come to susans anymore?  there have to be someone people who think SRS is not the right option?  other theories besides surgery?  hmmm, i want some critical thinking here!

so i'm all FFS'd and BA'd and pass pretty flawlesly... but i still stare at myself in the mirror and try to find a boy.  i tell myself that i only look like a girl because there isn't a girl to compare myself with.  like if i was staring into the mirror and a genetic/cisfemale was standing next to me, i would be dead givaway trans.  its like i'm constantly searching for a reason "not to be trans"?  as if one day i am going to look into the mirror and be like ~ that isn't a girl! and then detransition? shucks, i can't seem to find the write words (no, no pun intended) to express myself here.

i hope i've given enough context and information for people to maybe almost hopefully understand my feelings?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4RBkHK8q8s&feature=plcp

Ozma, let me put one of your worries to rest.  I have three daughters, all ciswomen, ages 19 to 26.  5' 5", 5' 9", and 6' 0".

After watching your video, and listening to you, and seeing how you carry yourself, you would fit right in as one of the girls.  You do not stand out as obviously trans.  In my eyes you are 100% girl.

Worry not!

Quote from: Jamie D on November 13, 2012, 12:49:51 AM
Ozma, let me put one of your worries to rest.  I have three daughters, all ciswomen, ages 19 to 26.  5' 5", 5' 9", and 6' 0".

After watching your video, and listening to you, and seeing how you carry yourself, you would fit right in as one of the girls.  You do not stand out as obviously trans.  In my eyes you are 100% girl.

Worry not!

isn't it what's inside that counts? 



i had someone respond to me... and basically said... getting a vag won't change anything about you right now.  all it will do is ease anxieties of having sex, most notably with men.  i mean i understand this, surgeries won't make you change the way you think, it wont make you a woman. but i just don't know how to decide what is the right course of action for me?  obviously that means i need to be paitent about getting a vag, but i can't help but get this anxiety about having a penis and walking around being a woman with a penis! ugghhh

at the same time i kind of feel like i don't like men, but then when i get horny, i like men.... and i wonder if its just my own awareness of my penis that makes me not like men? or maybe its my lifetime of trying to prevent wanting to be a girl and not wanting to be gay that doesn't let me like men?

when i can get my mind to a place where it is void of my current genitalia, i enjoy myself... its almost as if i can imagine what having a vagina will feel like? but then i just think i'm crazy for wanting a vagina?

i feel so confused!

We have all sorts of worries about SRS, doubts and stuff, and our opinions change as we change. I was pretty well thinking I wouldn't bother with surgery and just be happy living as the full time female me. But I'm definitely swinging into surgery.

As people keep saying this is were a good gender therapist can help. They don't make decisions for you, but guide you to think what you want and to explore the consequences etc.

Ozma, let me ask you a question.  You have been able to very successfully transform your body in away that approximates your dominant gender identity.  Am I correct so far?

What do you think a bigender, bisexual person like myself must do to deal with the gender dysphoria?  I think to answer for me is to be myself, and tweak what I can.

But I so very much envy people like you who have recognized who they are and acted on it.  It may be that your self image requires SRS, maybe not.  It is your unique journey.  There are no good roadmaps.  Like me, like Cindy, like all your other sisters here, you will have to follow your heart.

.

I think one of the most important things is what JamieD said in an oblique way, there are no rules about being TG or anything else in life for that matter. There is no book saying an MtF has to do this or that, there is no book saying an FtM has to do this or that.

We are all unique and lovely in out own way.

We walk our own paths, and sometimes we cannot walk those paths as we wish; for whatever reason.

There is nothing wrong in that.

At Susan's we promote social inclusion. What does that mean?

It means we don't give a damn what your identity is, how it changes or how you will tackle it. You are family and we will support you.

It is up to you to find your way, and of course many of us will help. But in the end decisions are yours. Never be coerced into something. You will live with the consequences. For example if you are coerced into having SRS, but not really wanting it; guess what? There is no way to sew the tackle back on.

You make your decision.

In Australia we have a 12 month RLE before we can have surgery, at the end of that time there is a full re-assessment, if the person wants surgery; some don't,  nothing wrong with that. Some decide to wait longer, nothing wrong with that. Some want it ASAP, nothing wrong with that either.

What is important is that YOU make an informed choice about your body.

No one owes you anything and you don't owe anyone anything. Your decision is yours alone. But make sure it is an informed carefully researched one.

Hugs

Cindy

Quote from: Cindy James on November 13, 2012, 01:47:23 AM
We have all sorts of worries about SRS, doubts and stuff, and our opinions change as we change. I was pretty well thinking I wouldn't bother with surgery and just be happy living as the full time female me. But I'm definitely swinging into surgery.

As people keep saying this is were a good gender therapist can help. They don't make decisions for you, but guide you to think what you want and to explore the consequences etc.

ha, its so familiar... telling myself "as long as i just look like a normal girl, i don't care if i'm pretty or not" or "i just want to be full time, i don't need a vagina."

its like stepping stones.  its too hard to think about the steps far away until you get closer to them.  when i told this to my therapist right away he said i had good "departmentalization" of my anxieties. haha

anyways, i was doing some thinking about this hole trans thing ~ HA, i'm soooo funny with puns! i recorded another video where i try to explain myself and possible future anxieties... yes i know its bad to try and tell the future cause it usually comes true (thanks Ayn Rand)

.

What a great thread, so many good posts!

I think what you are going through is perfectly normal. I went through the same process with FFS and though it's been way easier to decide to have a BA I still thought "what if I change my mind" yesterday I scheduled my surgery for BA and then later that night I was staring at my self in the mirror saying "your not really a girl" it's like I just want to torture myself! I think we all have a little internalized trans mysogyne going on, how could we not! We are the least understood and most marginalized group of people on the planet. That takes its toll. For me SRS will definitely be about being able to have sex correctly be that with a man or with a woman (mostly with a man) but that's just me.

Quote from: aprilrain on November 13, 2012, 06:41:48 AM
What a great thread, so many good posts!

I think what you are going through is perfectly normal. I went through the same process with FFS and though it's been way easier to decide to have a BA I still thought "what if I change my mind" yesterday I scheduled my surgery for BA and then later that night I was staring at my self in the mirror saying "your not really a girl" it's like I just want to torture myself! I think we all have a little internalized trans mysogyne going on, how could we not! We are the least understood and most marginalized group of people on the planet. That takes its toll. For me SRS will definitely be about being able to have sex correctly be that with a man or with a woman (mostly with a man) but that's just me.

thats right srs was all about being able to ride the pole for me 

Quote from: oZma on November 13, 2012, 02:54:23 AM
ha, its so familiar... telling myself "as long as i just look like a normal girl, i don't care if i'm pretty or not" or "i just want to be full time, i don't need a vagina."

its like stepping stones.  its too hard to think about the steps far away until you get closer to them.  when i told this to my therapist right away he said i had good "departmentalization" of my anxieties. haha

anyways, i was doing some thinking about this hole trans thing ~ HA, i'm soooo funny with puns! i recorded another video where i try to explain myself and possible future anxieties... yes i know its bad to try and tell the future cause it usually comes true (thanks Ayn Rand)

Wow, I love this video. I think you explain the feeling so well. Its so abstract, its hard to put into words at times. My life, the thoughts and feelings that I've had, echo those of this video. The voice just doesn't stop, no matter what methods and lengths we go to try and shut it up.

I just don't know if SRS would do that for me either. Its an issue that's on my mind at least once a day. Yes I want it, but then again, will it really solve my issues? But its a long way off for me and I am still just trying to accept myself and be content with where I am on my journey before I make a definite decision about that.

I check in on the boards every once in a while, but I don't post often cuz I don't always feel I have something to add. But I know I've read other posts on here a by you about questioning your pass-ability. And I just want to reiterate what everyone else keeps on telling you--and now also seeing this video--you are gorgeous. I would never be able to guess that you are not cisgendered. I know that we are hardest with ourselves and this may just seem like token praise. But I'm telling you--I'm married--I showed my wife your videos and she said, "Wow, I wish I looked that good."--Even many cisgendered women have issues with how they look--like muuu's example with anorexia.

You definitely pass. You just have to accept it and feel confident--and I know that just comes from going out and purposefully trying to create positive social experiences for yourself to look back on. I don't know. I personally have to force myself to do this. Perhaps its difficult for you too? But I do know that's how we learn about and accept ourselves, because simple interaction often reveals who we are.  I tend to think things will become more clear as time goes on. SRS is a HUGE decision, and not taking it lightly is a good thing.

And yes, you are very punny. 

Male genitalia under HRT become useless,
why clutch to them? I just get an impression that
you don't want to part with your male parts, due to
whatever reason. Please, don't hesitate to correct me
on the account of me being wrong.

Detransition is unwise if you weren't happy before
your transition and are happy now. Are you?
That's the ultimate question. All of us were unhappy
in our male bodies. It's okay to feel confused sometimes,
don't mistake that for unhappiness.

You look like every other woman to me,
if you want to become more feminine, give
HRT more time. It's a gradual process. And stop that
nonsense about "growing old and not looking cute anymore"
as a reason to detransition. I don't see any cute old men around,
do you? I do, however, see my share of cute elderly women.

SRS is the final step for most of us. Don't live in the past,
live in the present with your head into the future. The past is dead.

Quote from: Tristan on November 13, 2012, 07:01:32 AM
thats right srs was all about being able to ride the pole for me 

Sexually... yeah! Having multiple orgasms in a succession helps too.
In terms of self-image: it brings our bodies closer to our minds.

.

I have to say something about your video How being trans feels to me, and especially the all important "I want to be a girl." 

So much of what you said in your video has always been a part of my mental turmoil.  It's just been much longer lasting than a lot of the other girls on Susan's.  But I'll add that the nagging feeling of not quite getting there will probably never go away for me.  No matter how much I change my body and life there is always going to be something missing.  I can dream, but there's no way to have that one thing that has always really mattered the most.  And so I'll always wish that my life began with my mother being told "It's a girl."

My missing that begining to life is a deeply personal feeling, and I hope to accept it some day.  But for now I'll keep transitioning, and keep hoping that "I want to be a girl" can forever, and without regard or question of my birth, change to "I am a girl."

Love, Kathy 

Quote from: kathy b on November 13, 2012, 09:29:51 AM
I hope to accept it some day.  But for now I'll keep transitioning, and keep hoping that "I want to be a girl" can forever, and without regard or question of my birth, change to "I am a girl."

Love, Kathy

well stated Kathy, I think that this is the big question for a lot of us and though I have met plenty of post op woman who say that the GID has gone away in talking with them i also get the sense that we never really stop fighting that feeling even if its only for a moment every now and again.

I heard a story about a woman who grew up very poor, she worked hard has achieved wealth and wants for nothing but she still battles that feeling inside of her that dinner might not be on the table tonight. it never goes away completely.

Quote from: charlie on November 13, 2012, 05:34:31 AM

• Not wanting to worry how it sounds when I go

LOL! i think about this

Quote from: muuu on November 13, 2012, 09:27:33 AM
I don't think that it gets useless for everyone during HRT, so there may be reasons to hang on to it.
I'm not sure either, I think the question she's asking is if she'll feel more female without them. Though, because there are always things to improve, one won't get satisfied trough surgeries. The aim of surgeries imo should be to fix something that you see is in the way of your life, not because you want stop thinking "I want to be a girl" (I think you should go to a psychologist/psychiatrist about those psychological issues instead).
I might have understood her incorrectly though...

So the question is, why do you want SRS? Do you have a reason other than trying to please that 'voice'?
Personally I'm not sure myself, because of the surgery it self and possible difficulties afterwards.

yes muuu, you are correct.  about the constant improving myself aspect.  its a scary thought to think there is nothing i can do to further my femaleness

and i do see a therapist.  i have been since 3 months before hormones (2.5 years?) and i've always tried to be completely honest even when i felt i was saying things that i thought other trans girls wouldn't. 

Quote from: kathy b on November 13, 2012, 09:29:51 AM
I have to say something about your video How being trans feels to me, and especially the all important "I want to be a girl." 

So much of what you said in your video has always been a part of my mental turmoil.  It's just been much longer lasting than a lot of the other girls on Susan's.  But I'll add that the nagging feeling of not quite getting there will probably never go away for me.  No matter how much I change my body and life there is always going to be something missing.  I can dream, but there's no way to have that one thing that has always really mattered the most.  And so I'll always wish that my life began with my mother being told "It's a girl."

My missing that begining to life is a deeply personal feeling, and I hope to accept it some day.  But for now I'll keep transitioning, and keep hoping that "I want to be a girl" can forever, and without regard or question of my birth, change to "I am a girl."

Love, Kathy

the hardest part is the "arbitrary" factor.  the factor that in my head says "none of this should matter", "this is silly", "what reasons make you feel like you want to be a girl?"

its so hard to answer these because none of it does matter, there are no reasons really when it comes down to it (yes you could say cute clothes, long pretty hair, makeup).  but regardless, it is just the way it is and i guess we should all be thankful that we have the internet and we can discuss our feelings and know that we aren't alone

oZma it seems a lot of your problems stem from how you view yourself rather than how others view you. I've had this issue all my life even before transition and its a problem for all people even cis ones. I've talked with my therapist about it and she says she has trans patients that have had every surgery, completely pass, but when they look in the mirror they always see the guy despite everyone else seeing the girl.

My mother is a LCSW who has worked with young girls (and boys who are becoming more prominent lately) with eating disorders for most of her career. No matter how skinny they are, they always see a fat person and no matter what others tell them they see the opposite. I feel that this issue with trans women is the same but from an internal to external prospective. You are a woman inside yet you see the male body you use to have no matter how others see you. You cannot let an internalized feeling based off of this view of your external self override your true nature. It is why so many people who detransition based on this feeling end up regretting the detransition and transitioning again later which will only hurt them more in the long run.