One thing about small towns, they may talk about you for a bit, but sooner or later, they get bored with it and just go on with things. I live in a town of 420 and they mostly got over it.  Not as good as I imagine stealth to be, but quite bearable.

you don't have to stay in a small town, it might be hard to fathom moving but it's definitely possible.  It really helped me to move to an area that was tolerant and accepting.

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Quote from: Jaime on November 15, 2012, 10:44:00 AM
One thing about small towns, they may talk about you for a bit, but sooner or later, they get bored with it and just go on with things. I live in a town of 420 and they mostly got over it.  Not as good as I imagine stealth to be, but quite bearable.

Stealth can be overrated. Guys cat call and girls hate you for being prettier than they are. At least when you are known or clockable... people are probably more respectful. I know men may not hold doors open for you if you pass, but at least they wont make you feel threatened when you walk by them at night and they're asking to take you home with them or show your butt and boobs, and women are much nicer to trans girls than they are to cis girls... believe me. But... I'd rather be stealth, it makes me feel better about myself.. even with the dangers and haterism associated with being seen as cis.

Quote from: muuu on November 15, 2012, 10:29:43 AM
waaaa...
That sounds rather depressing... I'll probably never get enough money to any major surgery (probably getting rid of the adams apple), so I don't like that idea. To add, there's no surgery to narrowen the ribcage and shoulders, so even if I had the money, I wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

The thing is, whats the point of going out if I don't look like a girl? It's the social things, like being able to be outside and people see me as a girl, that's the only thing I care about.
And ofc... if I'll always hate myself, it's hard to imagine a working life...

Well, I live in a pretty small town, and I don't want any talk about me spread around, which would actually make things worse. Like I don't know, I just can't imagine living with this body, no matter how much it changes. My "base" is too big, if I could lose maybe 2" or 3" on my ribcage and 1" in shoulder width, then things would be possible... but that's not going to happen.
My personality and attitude is something I don't want to change, just to make it fit my body size, because that's just wrong imo...

The point is to be yourself. If you like presenting in girl stuff, do it! Screw what people think or say. It's your life. Live it so that you're happy. If there's 1 thing I've learned in life it's you can't go through it happy if you're not yourself. If you don't pass, at least you are you. If you're confident with who you ARE, people will at least respect that. They might not like it but they won't mess with you about it. Even if they do, you're happy with yourself so you can come back with a "lala eff you" dance if you want

Plus, I'll be real with you. People don't stare at someones rib cage and say "DUDE!!!" ... I mean, we might... those who have been around trans people might. But the general population ... no. They see your presentation and as long as you don't have these overwhelming masculine features and a voice that goes BOOM! ... people will probably see you as female, or at least treat you like one because they don't want to assume you're trans and then be wrong.

You really don't need to be under 5'9", size 6, 34 26 38 with a c cup and a perfectly round chin, sexy rib cage, size 8 foot, tiny petite hands, and 16" shoulder width to pass. Now... if they're all WAY out of norm.. you may have problems but being trans doesn't mean you have to be the stereotypes to pass. People may clock you... so they hell what. You'll never know if they do clock you until you get out there and see if they are... and if they don't seem like they are, you'll never REALLY know until you tell people you are and see their reactions. But in the end, who cares... its your happiness. If your happiness is unattainable through transition, why do it? Transition is expensive and emotionally taxing, why do it if you don't get anything out of it?

Quote from: muuu on November 15, 2012, 11:03:55 AM
I might even be able to abuse socialism (Sweden <3) to move, though, I'm not sure about that. I've planned to move, but that'd be in maybe 6 months to a year. Like, even after I move, I don't want to walk around and not passing... I just can't look like this, I'm not very much of a butch personality wise, so uhm...

AND, I'm at BMI 18 now, and my underbust has gotten like 2cm (~1") bigger, which is NOT good... If I would gain even more, omg...

edit: actually, it might be 1.5", it's hard, because yeah... not sure where I measured before (my underbust and bust varied with about 0.5", so kinda hard to find where my underbust starts!).

when I told my psychiatrist about my obsession with tape measures and scales he told me to throw them away.  One of the first steps to treating body dismorphia (which is what so many of us have) is to remove the measurement devices.  So get rid of them, measuring yourself isn't going to make you any smaller.


You don't have to walk around not passing.  Start out with little things like women's jeans (no one will notice), tops that are more androgynous than masculine etc...  As hormones do their stuff start experimenting a bit more.  Transition is a slow process, the way you look now WILL change and the further along you get the more feminine you will look.  You may not be able to believe that you can change physically enough to pass, but it will happen.

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Quote from: muuu on November 15, 2012, 12:01:51 PM
I really don't have any other option than transitioning. But, I'm not going to transition just to get some girl parts, I've actually not really cared about them much at all until recently. I'm more of the "omg my bones must be perfect" kind of person, and breasts aren't that hard to fake really...

Unless I can actually fit in in society as a girl, I don't see a reason to actually live. (please note, I'm not saying people who doesn't pass must die, this is only something for myself)
Because to me, transition is about social things. When I go somewhere, I want to be seen as a girl, when I talk with somebody, I want to be seen as a girl. I have no other goals, than have some socialization, find a guy that likes me, and yeah... that's pretty much all I want.

Well brace yourself - good luck with that. As you get older, women talk about their experiences with giving birth and raising their children A LOT. That will probably get to you, as it's gotten to me. I have to sit quiet as women go on 45 minute conversations about what Jayden did as a 1 year old or what it was like carrying around Haley. Those moments, I feel like an outcast. Sure when they're talking about clothes, jewelry, gossiping... I can hang with the best of them and feel like one of the girls, but it almost ALWAYS goes back to babies. There's just no getting past that, you will probably feel hate to your own body at that point, going by your ideal world and all.

Most men that are going to want you are going to *require* you have SRS... at least in my part of the world they do and I live in a very tolerant city with lots of trans presence. Honestly, I pass better than a vast majority of the trans women I've met here, too. Everyone elses words, not mine. Men talk to me lots... but the moment I tell them I'm pre op trans... deal breaker almost every single time. Whenever it's okay... the questions almost IMMEDIATELY pop up ... "Is it big? Do you use it? I've never done this before. Go home with me! Well let me go to your place! Oh why not? Well fine" ... then he probably goes and finds a cis girl. Pre op... we are fetishized (if that's a word). Now, post op it may be different... because 95% of the men i've told have said "Umm well when you get that surgery, let me know!" ... but I always wonder... why would they want me when they can get a girl with none of my baggage...

You're trans. You will not have a normal life, period. This is a very ... different ... life from cis society and it comes with the territory. It sucks at times but still, the wisdom you gain about gender, society, life... to me it's worth it somewhat. But in the end of every day, I always wish I was born cis... male or female, don't care. Welcome to the real world, a world where you probably wont get the life you always dreamed of, no matter how stealth you can be. But don't be discouraged. You have no choice but to take life for what it is, so live it to the fullest anyways

To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.

Well, at least in my experience.

I came out to my therapist when I was 22-23, but then I chickened out and never again returned to therapy.

13 years later, I mostly hate my body, I avoid looking myself in mirrors, good days are when i think everything is under control or I forget about everything because of work. On bad days I feel like crying when I glimpse myself turning into a 40 year old man with thinning hair and growing hair in places I never knew would be possible.

I've mostly managed to live like this without doing something stupid, I'm relatively successful at my job and am happily married with children.

I honestly don't know where in the transgender spectrum I'm situated, so it could be different for you.

What i can say is that for me, you can't ignore the transgender thing, and therapy/ADs will work in how you handle your feelings towards your dysphoria.

It depends on what you want to do with your life, and that in itself is hard as it is, there is no one good or true path towards accomplishing your goals. Maybe therapy will help you in giving you direction with what you want to do.

Be forewarned that if you decide not to transition, it will take a lot of mental effort to keep these feelings under control. It's very tiring-

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Quote from: muuu on November 15, 2012, 01:18:51 PM
Yeah, I can image that baby talk might be annoying and make you hate not being cis even more.

I think all girls with special characteristics are being 'fetishized', so being 'fetishized' because you have something down there isn't that much different.
Assuming I would pass. I wouldn't tell a guy I date about it, until a bit later when I know that I like him or if he's starting to want to go further. If he seems like homophobic/transphobic or is just not the person I'm looking for, then why would I tell him that I'm trans? Either way, it's not going to be the end of the world for him. Maybe I'm a mean and selfish person thinking like this, but I really think that being trans isn't something you have to tell somebody until either one wants to take something further.
I think this is an interesting issue though.

First I want to say what I'm trying to get you to see is that things in life aren't going to be as normal as being any cis girl. They just aren't no matter how perfect things are. Yes, they can be similar and you can be seen as cis by most people you come across in the world, but there will always be moments in life that will make you think "If I was cis..."

Me and a cis girl had a conversation about men last night. I told her about my experience with a guy the other night... basically like "Damnit I wish we weren't so fetishized" she had the same response as you "Men are all perverts, welcome to the club"... but then I came back and said "Yeah but this guy started asking how big I was the minute I told him I'm trans. I bet no guy has ever came up to you and asked what your vagina looks like! But I have to deal with this crap like every single time I deal with a guy." ... she didn't really have anything great to say that made me feel like it's just what women face.

As far as telling a guy, that's up to you. You have to tell him eventually. However I'm gonna tell you now, telling them after they've made intimate contact (be it kiss, holding you in public, etc) is a good way to get assaulted, and possibly even murdered. No, it's not an exaggeration either. I usually tell a guy when they ask for my phone number. I have found that's the safest time to tell them. You really do NOT want to lead a guy on. They are stronger than you, more violent than you, and most are less secure with their sexuality to the point that they will lash out to defend it. And if you think even though you look 100% female that they will go home with you, don't kid yourself. If they aren't open minded enough to see a trans girl as a girl they'd like to date, you being hot and pre op will probably not change that.

You are seriously taking a gamble with bad odds if you start a relationship with a guy and you tell him you're trans after. Think about it... many men ride their entire stupid male ego (especially at a young age) on their ability to get women. They joke around with their friends calling them "gay". Some of their stupid meme crap include words like "no homo". How many times have you heard men say some stupid crap about "the ->-bleeped-<- on springer!" ... you think you're gonna flip that on its head by being totally a attractive passable girl? You probably aren't. Sure, find out if they're homophobic... but think of it this way, men know women don't like homophobia. They're gonna hide it. After he tells his friends and family about you, think he's gonna be happy going back and saying "Well... she was trans, but I totally am okay with it!" ... no, their ego is going to worry about who thinks they're gay.

Oh no, my friends are gonna laugh at me. Oh crap, what if one of them notices she's trans?! I gotta be careful with what I do with this chick in public. This is too much! Oh look, that girl over there is totally hot, I'm gonna go talk to her instead. That's what's gonna run through most of their heads. Not all, but most.

I'm telling you this as a girl that takes pride in noticing lots of how the world around her functions in general. If you think you're gonna go through life being  100% normal in social circles as a girl, and men are gonna mostly treat you like they'd treat any cis girl, you're mistaken. I thought I would be an exception too to a certain extent, but omg was I wrong. Men do NOT dig trans girls unless they're wanting to experiment, and the experiment types just wanna dive right into sex and, what sucks more is, they say things like "for a guy, you...". Yes, you can train them to not say stuff like that, but you'll have to learn how to  and it will screw with your head, for sure.

Just be ready for reality is all I'm saying. One thing I hate to see is somebody being disappointed in something when I could've helped. I really think you're setting yourself up for it, too.

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That might be smart

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That's a way to look at it... but I personally do not want to take that risk. Think I want a tooth knocked out? Hell no! Transition is expensive enough and I don't have dental

And I'd also like to add that there are a bunch of cops around here that would look the other way when a transsexual reports a crime like that. Things are definitely getting better for us, but there's still TONS of hate against us in places that count... like treatment by police.

Quote from: Raneth on November 15, 2012, 11:26:38 AM
when I told my psychiatrist about my obsession with tape measures and scales he told me to throw them away.  One of the first steps to treating body dismorphia (which is what so many of us have) is to remove the measurement devices.  So get rid of them, measuring yourself isn't going to make you any smaller.

Mine directly said, "Body dysmorphia treatment over anything else, we are not doing anything until that has been addressed". And yup, measurements drive me crazy. Even though I am smaller and slimier than more than half of the women at work. In fact, I raise sort of envy about how I easily lose weight to the point of  trying to force feed me cookies.

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This is big problem for me as well.

When I was younger, I used to look at myself in the mirror and love what I saw. I still recall, dancing in front of full length mirrors. I'd imagine some really nice, big guy. Though I was too young.

Even at 18, when I had my first real relationship, I was still small. I didn't have any serious body hair, none on my face, as such. I still remember being picked up, I mean physically, picked up. I had my hands on his shoulders.

Then I grew into a freak. It's fine to say, a normal male, but normal only applies when you're in the right body.

Eventually, I came to realise that my body is a bit like having the wrong car. It looks bad. It isn't what you want. But it gets you around and if you take care of it, keep it clean and fueled. it generally lasts a life time!

I'm still in the preparation stages for transition, but I have the same problem and I've been pretty blessed with my features. I'm almost 6 feet tall, but my frame is very small, my hands too. I actually wear the exact same ring size as my mother. I've put on some weight, so my dress size went up, but it's the last size on most standard clothing sites and my shoe size is a woman's 10, which is also usually easy to find. You're always your worst critic. I think that's true of everybody whether they're transgendered or not.