Quote from: DianaP on November 15, 2012, 09:39:08 PM


As for Iran, there is no way Congress will declare another war when the others caused so much chaos for nothing.

As for education, I have little faith in the US education system. The system works to foster grades rather than knowledge.

The last time the US Congress declared war was in 1941

The College and Post graduate education of the USA is second to none

I realize that I have probably killed any good will I have here by being a dreaded Republican and speaking out against Obama, but I am not ashamed of my statements.  I believe that this election has fostered a shift in American culture from a "Can Do" attitude to a "Do It For Me" attitude.  I am disgusted by this shift and I have decided not to keep quiet about it anymore on here or in the real world.  When he was elected in 2008 I decided to keep quiet and allow him to do his job.  This time around I am not going to be so laze-fair about things. 

Now, keeping this civil, you can not tell me that if you look at the view from my side of the room that Robin Hood economics does not penalize successful people for being successful.  Sure, some have inherited wealth, but they still had to be smart enough to continue growing that wealth.  Ivanka Trump is no trust fund baby, she is a brilliant business women.  I have no blooming idea how to play the stock market, but they sure as heck have put in the time and effort to learn it and turn that skill and knowledge into a darn good lifestyle.  If it were so easy then we would all be rich.   

My brother is an ER doctor who earns just short of $500,000 a year.  Why should he have to give 40% of that hard earned money to people who did not put as much effort and time into learning his skill set.  We both came from the exact same place, but he was willing to sacrifice his 20's with his nose in a book six days a week while was not willing to do so.  He is stupid rich and I am not.  It is not anyone's fault, but sole my decisions that has put us in our positions.

Now I think folks do not understand how hard being a "Fox news anchors for reading rubbish off of a teleprompter".  That was my chosen career path and let me tell you that it is freaking hard to read off a teleprompter for any period of time and not have it sound like you are reading.  I have every technical skill in the industry, but that reading bit is one that I can not master.  I would say to simply try and read a paragraph to someone and make it sound completely natural and conversational.  Then try and do that for four hours a day five days a week.  Believe me when I tell you this, it is a very hard thing to do and those that can do it worked their butt off to gain that skill. 

Four more years, how much further will we as a nation slip?   

Well we survived 8 years of Bush, I'm sure you'll hack your way though 4 more years of Obama. 

What you should be worried about is the the Republican brand is so tarnished and diminished that it's not even viable in some of the largest areas of the nation.  Here in some of the most affluent and productive lands in the US the Republican's didn't even run a candidate for State Assembly, and their candidate for Congress was a complete mystery until you read their name on the ballot.  Not a single yard sign, billboard, ad, flyer (and I got enough flyers in the mail to wallpaper a medium-sized house) or bumpersticker did I ever see for them.  Basically, they've bugged out and ceased to be a viable political party, conceding this area (Marin and Sonoma) to Democratic control.

And it's not just here, it's become pretty much pro-forma in the largest population areas (and most productive areas) in the county, and that' fast reducing the Republican party to a regional rump party of the poorest and least productive areas.  Check it out, the Dems' basically start any national election now with about 240 electoral votes, thus meaning the 'Pubs have to run the board on the rest, and have not done so recently.  Largely because they don't put up anyone who anyone really supports.

Here are the real facts:
In the 10 best educated states, Obama won 10 out out 10, while Romney won 9 out of 10 of the least educated states.
In the 10 most affluent counties in the US, Obama won 8 of them.  (He could't even carry the 1%)
In his home state, where his father was governor, he lost.
In his other home state, where he was governor, he lost.
His Veep, also lost his home state, hell, he lost his home town.

So I don't think we're going to slip, it's possible we're going to gain.  Dropping two unpopular wars (that were going nowhere) and not starting another one is going to be a good thing.  Fairness in taxation is important too.  To far more than just the Obama voters as it turns out.  The US has done well, awesome in fact, with much higher tax rates, I'm sure well make it through this round too.

And while the 'Pubs are going to form a circular firing squad and chase off the remaining normals in a rush to 'run a real conservative this time' (Can't wait for that very special Santorum/Bachman ticket next time either, I'll tell 'ya that, oh that's going to pick up the missing votes won't it?) the Dem's are going to fall in line behind their only logical choice, and go into 2016 with a full head of steam and little to no internal resistance.  With that election the Court will finally turn, and with it, America.

And reading news, no matter how much of a special skill it is - is not reporting.  They might try that aspect of 'news' on occasion.  Because they were not just wrong, they couldn't have BEEN MORE WRONG.

Quote from: tekla on November 16, 2012, 09:48:05 PM
Well we survived 8 years of Bush, I'm sure you'll hack your way though 4 more years of Obama. 

All I have to say is that 8 years of Bush was enough to almost destroy America, if Obama's results seem slow it's just because the size of the mess left behind by Bush and his cronies is one of epic proportions.

Just for fun....
MARGINS OF VICTORY

JFK - 1960 -     0.17%
Nixon - 68 -     0.70%
Carter - 76-     2.06%
Bush  - 00 -    -0.51%
Bush  - 04  -    2.46%
BO    -  12 -     2.90%

But if you want to see the really depressing news for the Republicans, look at the voting for people under 30 and for single women, and for Latinos.  Basically if they can't change those numbers, they are not going to win another national election.

Oh I don't know, Bush's lies got 5K Americans killed for nothing.  And the SC justices, and other judges, is huge.

Quote from: DianaP on November 16, 2012, 11:39:11 PM
I don't like Bush (or as I like to call him, "Bush 2: The Revenge), but I know not to blame him for problems in the US. Dysfunctional legislative bodies are the real problem. I never liked political parties. Their only function is to keep us mad at each other instead of at the people who are actually screwing up the system.

By Bush I mean Cheney and his corrupt Halliburton cronies, The neocon warhawks and the racist "compasionate" christian right. Those are smart manipulative and highly amoral people hiding their wicked motives behind the walls of tradition, freedom, religion and patriotism.

Nope, I don't like them one bit.

I agree about the presidency not having that much power as power is usually checked by congress and the supreme court.

But lo and behold, Bush's power was unchecked by a lackey majority led republican congress (filled with neocons and the religious right, up til 2008, and now back in power repackages as "Libertarians" and "Tea Partiers" ) and a conservative supreme court which basically made him president in 2001 over the general consensus (the deciding votes were  made by justices appointed by Papa Bush).

So, in my opinion neither Bush nor the Republican party get a pass for the mess they left behind. (Also you're not taking into account the US's biggest blunder ever, the war on drugs, courtesy of one Richard Nixon, and revived by Mr. Reagan,  which has been going on for over 30 years and is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths in Latin America)

So yeah, I don't think there's a middle ground for me here.

Obama's re-election proved many things to the Republicans: that his first win wasn't a fluke, that the Republicans really don't have much media control anymore, and that everybody has rumbled their game. Karl Rove's tactics only work when people don't believe you'd go to those lengths to win. When they're expecting shady crap, then you have a distinct disadvantage that you can't really overcome. And Karl knows that his time is short in the GOP because they spent a lot of money to lose big. That money probably won't be coming back without some incredible insight.  And you have to admit that's pretty funny.

One of the bright sides is how Romney, with time and effort, completely bungled an election that should have been closer. This is the second time this millennium where a businessman candidate completely failed at doing anything presidential. Business people should not be in positions of governmental power because their whole role is smoke and mirrors and privilege. Romney cemented that completely: he wasted a summer pandering to a base that didn't matter and alienating the hell out of moderates who realized he was an idiot. The Republicans failed to capitalize on anything past 2011 because they were and still are wildly out of touch with how they are perceived among most Americans. You do not walk back from that with the tactics the Republicans use constantly. You change or die.  And mostly, they are going to die a lot before they think about changing.

That, and their most attractive candidate for 2016 just died in the arms of some floozy.

Quote from: DianaP on November 17, 2012, 09:57:51 AM
Well, billions of dollars spent of campaigns and Obama is still president, the Democrats have a Senate majority, and the GOP still controls the house. In short, billions of dollars were wasted and NOTHING CHANGED. 

Yup, another four years of gridlock and no budget while the Titanic slips under the waves of debt.

Quote from: DianaP on November 17, 2012, 09:57:51 AM
Well, billions of dollars spent of campaigns and Obama is still president, the Democrats have a Senate majority, and the GOP still controls the house. In short, billions of dollars were wasted and NOTHING CHANGED. 

Some those billions of dollars weent to a myriad of hard core mom-pop small businnes, you know the peopple who make : posters, placards, stickers, buttone, etc


The lion share of those billionas went to media advertising corporations, most of them Reps

Actually most of that money went to TV stations.

Quote from: tekla on November 17, 2012, 12:30:45 PM
Actually most of that money went to TV stations.

TV is a type of media, yes? Or are we going to have a philosophical conversation about the nuances that separates media from TV?

Sure, all media is not TV, but the majority of this was spent on TV.  At that only in a few markets.  It was possible to live in place and not really see any Presidential election ads (and happy were those people too) unless you were watching national cable channels.  Furthermore, and perhaps even more interestingly, they didn't work except in the Republican Primaries, where they did deliver a candidate that could lose an election that was theirs for the taking.  Most of the big time advertising was pretty much wasted money, and I don't know if people are going to have to 'answer' for that or not, I am pretty sure that next time around you're not going to see as much of it unless things change radically - and I don't think that given the early money on Hillary vs. Jeb Bush it will.

Quote from: DianaP on February 09, 2013, 12:21:43 PM


I still think that neither presidential candidate was good and I don't like either party. I can agree that the US needs a political overhaul. The system is fine. The people in it just need to be fired, unless they can put their country before their parties. 

There you go, we can agree on this, good point Diana!

I have hope for this term.  I hope it is a good one.

Quote from: kkut on February 09, 2013, 01:27:23 PM
I think there's a growing push to begin fixing things. I'm actually hopeful on some levels. However, if things aren't fixed and deficits remain, we're in trouble.

its too bad Obama doesn't seem to care much about deficits, national debts, etc... maybe he has an ace up his sleeve?  he most likely knows more than we do about it... people like Paul Krugman say we can just make $1trillion coins and use accounting tricks to make the debt/deficit matter less?  maybe our huge military and foreign presence will protect us from all of the foreign investments on the US dollar?  heck, i wish i knew how he justified all this debt?  but maybe the debt is to make LEFT and RIGHT preoccupied and fight over things like fiscal cliffs and debt ceilings while he throws more money as Israel?  Libya? Syria? Egypt?  There is some SH*T going on over there!! WTF!?! PULL OUT PULL OUT!! NO WAR!! thats what i have to say...

its sooo hard to speculate on these things... just like cows don't know they're going to get slaughtered when the time comes... its beyond our perception to know whats REALLY going on ~ that's why i voted/wrote in Ron Paul so we have a chance to getting some kind of gov i can comprehend

...Republican congress is the true hero behind the Clinton years

...debt ceiling

... fiscal cliff

...the Deficit

...the gold standard

Fox News anyone?

Ugh, the republican congress with Rand Ryan Boehner and the tea party is the worst, and their only goal seems to hijack and disrupt whatever the democrats do or propose, even at the risk of driving the country to the ground.

yeah I don't agree with you libertarian/neocon/conservative/reagan peeps, Obama is handling the country very well, and so does the majority of Americans and the rest of the planet.

The Debt? ow wow, it's like beating a dead horse.

The 8 years of Republican plundering of the social safety nets, the destruction of science based education in favor of faith based hypocrisy and perverted Neocon politics is what got the USA in the mess that it's in. If Obama is to be remembered sadly it's only because the republican and libertarian tea party hacks and their inability to comperhend simple macroeconomics in their misguided attempt to sabotage the nation's economic recovery with their fear mongering ways..."the debt is too high!" "the debt ceiling must not be raised" "Obama is a socialist muslim!".

They're just recycling their themes, in fact just replace their economic arguments with the old terrorism ones and you can see they're nothing but  peddlers of fear preying on the less informed and the ignorant.

I will be the first to concede that none of us and especially me has all the answers. Most of what we understand is what comes through a tainted and biased media which pumps out left and right wing disinformation daily. We are much like those who read the sports pages and follow sports on TV and pretend to be experts on sports analysis. We don't have any answers! I'm sorry to think that one of our own here feels alienated, picked on and abused by any of us due to the vitriolic nature and passion generated in political discourse. I apologize to our friend DianaP, she's a sweet soul and I do like her.