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Questions regarding temporary T usage

Started by androgynoid, November 12, 2012, 01:41:44 PM

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Kevin Peña

#80
Quote from: insideontheoutside on November 15, 2012, 01:57:29 AM
I'm also sick of one minute everyone cheering T like it's some sort of miracle with very little side effects and then the next saying it's "drastic and dangerous". Double standards, much?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think people say that there are fewer UNDESIRABLE side effects of T when it's a full-blown FTM taking it, since most of the effects make them more masculine, which is desirable.

If you're taking it for any other reason, you may not like the results.

Permanent effects:
1. Sterilization and ovary atrophy. Could lead to a cessation of periods.
2. Body hair growth.
3. Male pattern baldness.
4. Grown clitoris and less vaginal lubrication.
5. Deepened voice.
6. Lowered to no more estrogen production.

Reversible effects (Stop when you stop taking T):
1. Acne
2. Estrogen's decreased production (If T is stopped EARLY)
3. Male fat distribution.
4. Initial breast reduction due to loss of fat.
5. Vein prominence and thick skin.

I'm warning you: think this through... HARD.
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Darrin Scott

Quote from: Christopher_Marius on November 17, 2012, 01:02:00 AM
Did we forget what this thread was about? I think so.

Quote from: Christopher_Marius on November 17, 2012, 01:02:00 AM
Did we forget what this thread was about? I think so.

No, people just think that unless you're a TrUe TrAnSeXuAl you shouldn't get treatment. I'm sorry, but I really think the OP and others like him got thrown under the bus. I really thought susans was better than the likes of Tumblr, but I guess not. I'm really disappointed with this community and the trans community at large. I feel if you need T for whatever reason and whatever your level of dysphoria you should get it. I did do informed consent and I'm not looking to sue my Dr or anything like that. In fact, I'm RELOCATING and uprooting my entire life and moving 1,000 miles away from home to start saving money for top surgery. While I did not have a letter, I was still serious about my transition and not some BS "regretter" how dare anyone say that I or others like me are. Some may be and stop taking T, but it's their choice. There would have to be mobs of people to start suing clinics for trans* people to stop getting treatment altogether. You can't blame less than 10% of the population on a T shortage. Cis guys use it too. I'm so sick of this crap and people getting bullied online for being who they are and doing what they need to do to get the treatment they need REGARDLESS of their level of dysphoria. I may get banned or lose rep points or whatever. I just get really worked up about it.





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aleon515

Darrin, I don't think everyone agreed with these sentiments. I know I didn't as well as Arch, insideontheoutside, and a couple others disagreed.


--Jay J
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Darrin Scott

Quote from: aleon515 on November 17, 2012, 09:40:06 PM
Darrin, I don't think everyone agreed with these sentiments. I know I didn't as well as Arch, insideontheoutside, and a couple others disagreed.


--Jay J

Maybe and Maybe I'm coming a little late to the party, but this subject is a sore one for me. I think I might just stay out of the thread. It cab ne quite triggering.





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Kevin Peña

Quote from: Darrin Scott on November 17, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
I'm so sick of this crap and people getting bullied online for being who they are and doing what they need to do to get the treatment they need REGARDLESS of their level of dysphoria. I may get banned or lose rep points or whatever. I just get really worked up about it.

I don't think anyone agreed with those sentiments. You may be a bit late to the party, but, if it makes you feel better, not everyone feels that way. Also, I upped your reputation for speaking your mind and being a stand-up, supportive fellow.  :)

Anywho, as for the OP, I once again refer you to think this through. You can go on T if you want, but I just want you to think about it.
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wheat thins are delicious

Quote from: Darrin Scott on November 17, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
No, people just think that unless you're a TrUe TrAnSeXuAl you shouldn't get treatment. I'm sorry, but I really think the OP and others like him got thrown under the bus. I really thought susans was better than the likes of Tumblr, but I guess not. I'm really disappointed with this community and the trans community at large. I feel if you need T for whatever reason and whatever your level of dysphoria you should get it. I did do informed consent and I'm not looking to sue my Dr or anything like that. In fact, I'm RELOCATING and uprooting my entire life and moving 1,000 miles away from home to start saving money for top surgery. While I did not have a letter, I was still serious about my transition and not some BS "regretter" how dare anyone say that I or others like me are. Some may be and stop taking T, but it's their choice. There would have to be mobs of people to start suing clinics for trans* people to stop getting treatment altogether. You can't blame less than 10% of the population on a T shortage. Cis guys use it too. I'm so sick of this crap and people getting bullied online for being who they are and doing what they need to do to get the treatment they need REGARDLESS of their level of dysphoria. I may get banned or lose rep points or whatever. I just get really worked up about it.

No one is saying that everyone who does informed consent wants to sue anyone.   No one said those who start T under informed consent are regretters either.  I have nothing to say in regards to T shortages because I haven't done any kind of researching about that. 

I'm also curious why you are relocating in order to save money for top surgery.  It would seem more logical (unless you are moving for a job) to stay in place and not have to spend moving and living costs while finding a job.


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Green_Tony

Quote from: Darrin Scott on November 17, 2012, 09:34:24 PM
No, people just think that unless you're a TrUe TrAnSeXuAl you shouldn't get treatment. I'm sorry, but I really think the OP and others like him got thrown under the bus. I really thought susans was better than the likes of Tumblr, but I guess not. I'm really disappointed with this community and the trans community at large. I feel if you need T for whatever reason and whatever your level of dysphoria you should get it. I did do informed consent and I'm not looking to sue my Dr or anything like that. In fact, I'm RELOCATING and uprooting my entire life and moving 1,000 miles away from home to start saving money for top surgery. While I did not have a letter, I was still serious about my transition and not some BS "regretter" how dare anyone say that I or others like me are. Some may be and stop taking T, but it's their choice. There would have to be mobs of people to start suing clinics for trans* people to stop getting treatment altogether. You can't blame less than 10% of the population on a T shortage. Cis guys use it too. I'm so sick of this crap and people getting bullied online for being who they are and doing what they need to do to get the treatment they need REGARDLESS of their level of dysphoria. I may get banned or lose rep points or whatever. I just get really worked up about it.

YES. I'm not a "regretter" or whatever either, and the way my case is being handled, is as much like pure informed consent (i.e. don't have to prove gender) as current legislation and rules will allow. I am a capable adult and being treated as such, and that's what I want for everyone, and this includes the reproductive rights arena. I want to be on T permanently, but I can still understand that some don't. I don't think they are less worthy of help than me, and I really just don't feel threatened by non-binary people at all. I don't understand being so threatened by non-binary people either. It is nonsense.
Something went a bit wonky with space and time. Now I'm here.
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aleon515

I don't know how many people are threatened by non-binary people-- may just not understand it well. May feel non-binaries are binaries who just are on the way to being "transsexual" (I think this is true in some cases). Heck I don't understand it well and I am non-binary.

I like informed consent as I think you are treated as more of an adult and less pathologized. "Here you are sick, take this letter".

BTW, the whole issue of shortages-- is something almost unheard of about 10-15 years ago. I've heard a lot of stories on this from NPR, and not much anywhere else. I think that they are largely NOT created because of high demand. IN some cases they are actually manufactured to tip up the price of something. Or to place one large pharmaceutical company against each other and are caused from lack of regulation of large pharma in the US. (Since this effects the world, there will be shortages everywhere.)  I can't say it will never happen for T, though it is usually specific (can't find one T might have to go on another). However you can be pretty sure if it happens it won't be because of informed consent. (Btw, I had this happen to me with a common seizure drug. It could be life threatening in some cases.) I am very cynical about this issue as I was effected by it and it caused a lot of problems like breakthrough seizures. But it was not caused because all of a sudden everyone had an unlimited supply of Tegretol. (You notice that aspirin or other cheap drug never has a shortage.)

There will be regretters with even the tightest forms of regulations. I think it is the nature of the condition. THere will also be regretters who will regret regretting and go back on T (or HRT).


--Jay J
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eli77

Quote from: aleon515 on November 18, 2012, 11:52:12 AM
I don't know how many people are threatened by non-binary people-- may just not understand it well. May feel non-binaries are binaries who just are on the way to being "transsexual" (I think this is true in some cases). Heck I don't understand it well and I am non-binary.

I'm transsexual and non-binary. *Shrug* The non-binary spectrum is complex, and I get that people aren't always going to understand super well. That's fine. What I don't get is the leap from "I don't understand" to "you must be wrong and are incompetent to decide what you want to do with your body and your life." Or the bizarre assumptions that we aren't under medical care - I've been cleared by two separate gender therapists and a host of medical practitioners. And I didn't need to lie.

Hell, I'm more medically altered than 99% of the persons frequenting Susan's, and probably everyone in this thread. I am not a child. I know what I'm doing, thanks. Cain was asking for specific information about the effects of T. Does this sound like someone who just blindly rushes into stuff? From my perspective the people who ID as non-binary are WAY more careful about what they decide to do to their forms. It's the people who incorrectly latch onto the true-trans-standard-narrative that have ended up as "regretters."
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Arch

More details about what happened when for me before I went on finasteride. So these are unimpeded changes on the so-called full dose--after an early menopause, so I guess my T didn't have as much estrogen to fight off. I was doing injections. I started off with biweekly but began doing weekly at a certain point. I started transition at forty-six. I am fifty now. I have been on T for three years and nine months.

I've been combing through my old journal and checking my video log. My voice was not really female anymore by three months in, and now I think that my voice was really more in the androgynous zone at that point. It's hard to tell. But before five months in, I was "passing" consistently, so my voice was good enough. My therapist said that I was in tenor range, and he should know; he is a singer.

I started seeing some downstairs growth in the first two weeks. I called it "a bit of growth--not a microphallus yet."

After nearly five months on T, I wrote up a progress report.

I had more downstairs growth, and my orgasms were much more intense than before. My fat was still redistributing to my belly. I had picked up some body hair (arms, legs), but not as much as I wanted, and the growth was a bit uneven. I had had a few stray hairs on my chest, but they disappeared under the surgeon's knife.

My hairline was male, and my hair was less thick, but I wasn't sure whether I was actually balding. I felt that my hairline was receding.

After about eight months, I did another progress report. By this time, I was on weekly injections.

This time, I noted that my thighs were still getting hairier and that the hair was coarsening. The hair on my arms was getting better, but I still wasn't satisfied (in fact, I still want more). My eyebrows were getting unruly, like my father's. I still had no real chest hair, but I had a nice happy trail and lots of pubic hair.

I had very nice sideburns (other FTMs envied them, so they were a strong point), but my mustache was terribly wispy, and the facial hair wasn't worth growing out yet. It was shaggy.

My hands had grown about a size, and the veins were more prominent.

I have been telling people that my vocal shift to baritone was impeded by finasteride, but now I see that this isn't true at all. I started going into baritone range after about 16 months, but I didn't go on finasteride until about 16.5 months in.

I have a video from that period, and I like the way I look in that video. I have a better haircut, my hairline is male, my face has masculinized quite a bit, and the voice is great, although I mention that I am still learning how to use it. A few weeks later, just about 17 months in, another video shows that my voice has stabilized nicely, although I say that I don't really know how to project.

According to my journal, I was a lot furrier all around, my skin was coarser, my Adam's apple was noticeable, my neck was thicker, and (of course), I had more muscle all over my body (the muscle started early on, but it was much more dramatic after more than a year). I had some fuzz on my butt (not sure when that actually started), and now I had more than a happy trail on my belly. My head hair darkened and coarsened; some of that might have been due to natural aging. (I used to have superfine blond hair, but it got darker and darker throughout my adult years. The same thing happened to my mother, but she wound up with brown hair, whereas I am still blond. Now, of course, I'm greying at the temples, and the grey hair is pretty coarse.)

I won't go on, since you are talking about taking T short-term. But I wonder what your male family members are like. As people have pointed out, genetics is key.

Anyway, I hope this gives you a better idea of what one guy went through.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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androgynoid

Quote from: Arch on November 18, 2012, 03:21:20 PM
I won't go on, since you are talking about taking T short-term. But I wonder what your male family members are like. As people have pointed out, genetics is key.

Anyway, I hope this gives you a better idea of what one guy went through.

Thanks for this post, Arch. I don't have any brothers, but I have a lot of uncles. They're mostly clean-shaven, and I haven't seen any of them shirtless or anything, so I don't know much about their facial or chest hair. I know my dad can easily grow a full beard and has what's probably an average amount of body hair. I've heard you should look to your mother's father to determine how you'll bald, and my mother's father is balding quite a bit, but not as much as my dad. My dad started losing his hair at a younger age than I am now.

Do you know if finasteride has an effect on the rate of T changes? I don't know exactly how these things work, but one of the reasons I'm hesitant about T is that I don't want to lose my hair.
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Arch

Finasteride inhibits DHT, which is responsible for lots of male changes, the ones we like best! So, yes, finasteride will tend to slow down transition. It might not do that to everyone. But if you plan to be on T for only a short while, and if you're still relatively young, hair loss might not be a problem. The only way to know is to try the T.

I am convinced that finasteride has been slowing down my body hair and facial hair because I took a break from it for three and a half months and noticed more dramatic changes than I'd had in quite some time. In addition, my voice just went through another major shift--not as dramatic as in the past, but I was cracking, and my therapist could tell that I'd shifted--so I wonder when all of that would have happened if I hadn't been on finasteride. I'm now off the finasteride because I want more body and facial hair. Also, I still hope to donate blood, but I can't do that while I'm on finasteride.

I've heard that the bit about looking to your mother's father is apocryphal, but I never really knew my maternal grandfather and don't remember what he looked like. I met him only once unless you count the time I was still teething. My hairline looks just like the hairline my father and older brother have.
"The hammer is my penis." --Captain Hammer

"When all you have is a hammer . . ." --Anonymous carpenter
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Jamison

You can't pick and choose your changes on T or the rate at which they come. If you're worried about regretting an irreversible change so much, then don't take the risk.
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AdamMLP

Quote from: DrillQuip on November 20, 2012, 08:37:12 AM
The original post had no questions about whether or not they should go on T. They asked about the changes T would do to them if they took it. God help them, they posted what they wanted from T and what they didnt and apparently that was a HUGE mistake.

For those of you who keep trying to nanny the OP, you are thread derailing. For those of us who would have also benefited from the answers about T and its effects...well this thread is such a waste now for the most part now thanks to you. Its filled with petty bickering and people who are just straight up ignoring the point of the thread. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Next time I post my own questions on this site I'll be sure to include no personal info about myself at all, so that self appointed nannys, gatekeepers, and self anointed "experts" dont waste my time with their opinions about whether or not I should make changes to my own body.

Most people weren't trying to "gatekeep" or say what the OP should or should not do.  One or two people did start doing that, and as you'll notice, the majority corrected them and said that their views weren't positive and were going down the "gatekeeping" route.  Unfortunately people got caught up in arguing over whether informed consent was a good thing or not, rather than answering the OP's question, but it was the discussion of that which led people onto that anyway.

The majority never explicitly said that the OP, or other non-binary people, shouldn't use any form of HRT, they were just cautioning them that it's not possible to "pick and choose" what effects they get, and that there's a possibility that it would increase their dysphoria.  I agree that some people came across too strongly -- I said this in one of my former posts -- but I think a lot of people were just trying to warn the OP that things could permanently change that they didn't want to, and that there's no way to tell what order changes will occur, or the time scale.
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Potter

Quote from: Cain on November 12, 2012, 01:41:44 PM
a) How long did it take for your bits to start to grow, and do you know if it's permanent even after stopping T? This is the change I'm definitely the most interested in.

This was one of the first things I noticed, for me it started in the first week, it didn't grow to spectacular size though and after that it had a few more growth spurts. I'm having one now and I'm over 2 years on T.

Quoteb) How long did it take for facial hair to start to really come in? I wouldn't mind my body being slightly hairier, but I don't want to grow a mustache or beard. I'd be okay with having to occasionally shave though.

I'm still waiting, I have no side burns some hair on and under my chin and a dirt/puberty 'stache.

Quotec) When did your voice start to drop? And one that might be harder to answer: if I were to stop taking T as my voice began to drop, would it stay in the crack-y, partially-dropped phase forever? Could I possibly train it to stay in my current range, similarly to MtF voice training? Based on the men in my family it shouldn't drop too far.

My voice noticeably dropped in my fourth month on T, but I started losing my upper register and get a bit of a hoarse sound after 2 weeks. I don't know if your voice would stay crack-y if you stopped in between.

I also remember someone saying gel is slower, it may be for some but it really isn't in my case. I was on injections first but my changes really speeded up when I started using gel at the start of this year, so really your mileage may vary on that one. Actually I think that goes for all the changes, it really depend on genetics.


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