Greetings!

I have an unusual situation, at least insofar as I've been able to tell from what other people consider the transition process.  Typically when people talk about gender identity and reassignment it's from the perspective of a the male/female dichotomy.  So a male transitioning to female or vice versa.

My needs, or wants are maybe a little different than most and as such I'm not sure many can relate.  I'm male, I live as male, but I wear women's underwear under my male clothes.

I don't wear breastforms or padded bras, but I find the bras I wear and the body type I have usually result in a noticeably flattering feminine shape of my chest.  As impressive as my chest is with the right bra, I am not satisfied with the size and shape of my breasts and would like to find a way to develop larger breasts, female breasts.  I basically want whatever breasts I would have developed had I been born female.

I want to continue to live as a man though, but as a man with large natural breasts.  I'm already used to the clothes I'd have to wear, maybe I'll have to get a larger cup size on my bras, but for the most part I think the only difference will be I will be happier with the size and shape of my breasts and I'll be able to completely fill out my bra cups.

So it's a transition of sorts, but not the type most people talk about when they discuss transitions...

One of my concerns is, I don't think you can get approved for hrt unless you're committed to having a sex change and living as the opposite sex.

Any thoughts?

I don't think it would be a good idea to go on HRT unless you are committed. There are many other side effects besides breast growth, which is honestly rarely even more than a B cup. 

There are many who start transitioning but for various reasons never follow through completely, myself included. The Androgyne forum is full of people like myself. Not everyone is happy about us, but then again they don't live in our skins.

Quote from: Shantel on November 30, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
There are many who start transitioning but for various reasons never follow through completely, myself included. The Androgyne forum is full of people like myself. Not everyone is happy about us, but then again they don't live in our skins.

I'm happy about youse! Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Shantel on November 30, 2012, 06:31:42 PM
There are many who start transitioning but for various reasons never follow through completely, myself included. The Androgyne forum is full of people like myself. Not everyone is happy about us, but then again they don't live in our skins.

I'm not hating on you. I'm just saying that in this particular case, the ends might not justify the means.

Quote from: DianaP on November 30, 2012, 06:29:00 PM
I don't think it would be a good idea to go on HRT unless you are committed. There are many other side effects besides breast growth, which is honestly rarely even more than a B cup. 

That's it.  You say specifically you want LARGE breasts and you really want no other changes.  Hormones make subtle changes, throughout the body.  Large breasts, which are rare, would still take you years to develop.  On top of that you have all the other side effects.  Reduction in libido.  Skin changes.  Thinner body hairs.

You're probably better off with breast implants if that's all you're going for.  You could control the size much better that way too

Before I started researching what it's going to take to grow large natural breasts, I was adamant that I would *never* consider breast implants.

I was assuming that given the genetics of my family (all the women have ridiculously large breasts) all I would have to do start taking estrogen and I would sprout breasts as fast as they can physically grow... but it sounds like it takes years for hormones to work, and even then they barely grow breasts at all, and the older you are the less they will grow.

It's too bad, I wish I had known sooner that you need to start young and wait for years for hormones to work, I've been interested in having breasts since I started crossdressing as a child, just haven't made the decision to do something about it till recently.  But now I'm 40 and it sounds like the best hormones will be able to do doesn't meet the least of my expectations.

I guess I'll have to do research on breast implants, it feels dishonest to have artificial breasts to me, I would feel better if I could grow my own, the ones that are genetically programmed into my DNA but laying dormant.  Maybe there's medical advancements to be made in this area... perhaps estrogen isn't the best route to natural breast development?  Perhaps there's some other hormone or process that can be more directly kicked off in order to express those physical characteristics?

There needs to be a better option, I'm not keen on implants or impotence.

Generally speaking, breasts will be on the smallish side...but (if it were me) I'd be willing to gamble I'd get larger-than-average "MTF" breasts, given your family's "ridiculously large breasts".

Age is a factor, but it's not the be-all end-all of whether or not you get breasts. In addition to estrogen, one can take herbal fixes for breast growth (hint: Saw Palmetto has on a warning label "women should not take this, because it may result in unwanted breast growth". Figure out the dose, slowly increase it until you start feeling breast buds (I did), and then continue until you get on HRT.

Red Clover extract was another herb that I used prior to HRT. It comes with a dropper...half a dropper + 2-3 squirts of a skin softening lotion, rub on breasts for as long as your arms hold out (or about a minute...whenever you get bored). Rubbing pattern is: starting at 12 o'clock, rub inward and down to 6 o'clock, and continue to the outside area, and back to 12. Left breast is one direction, right is the other. (This has something to do with the duct work inside, it aids in growth.)

Also, you could take menopause supplements, over the counter stuff. (I got "maximum strength").

All these things did not affect my libido or man-parts in the least, but I did have noticeable "breastlings" soon after starting. Nips were about 1+" over the sternum area. Not much, but then again not bad considering these were just herbs.

There are some safety/overdose concerns iirc, so please google things and find out for yourself.  I did the herbs not for any hope of getting boobs, but more because I read here that the phyto-estrogens of supplements will sort of "prime" the receptors for the actual E, should you get on that later on...since they are primed, one *may* see more rapid than normal growth.

I know I have. Not as fast as my friend, but then she's younger than me by about 20 years. (I'm 48, with almost-B cups after 9 months)

Even if you get on E, yes libido etc will go down (almost certainly), but once you get breasts, and you go off E, they will stay there, only slightly and very gradually reducing in size, but you will get your male sex drive (i.e., erections) again.

Hope this helps, good luck on your journey and wherever it leads you.

"I guess I'll have to do research on breast implants"

The Wiki Staff have done the heavy lifting for us! https://www.susans.org/wiki/BA

I don't know if this is possible *without* any other changes (and for my wife it wasn't)... but my wife was an A-cup within a month, C-cup by 3 months, and at 3 years on HRT is 42DDD and still growing. She's probably a statistical outlier for both size and speed of development - she would be among cis women, too - but it does happen.  However, I do agree that you probably would have to be willing to accept at least some temporary additional changes, because I don't know of anyone who went on HRT and didn't experience that. Breast implants *are* the best way to guarantee that you get a specific breast size and/or look and nothing else.

(Amusingly, I'm FAAB and had more or less the same results; I was one of those girls who started the summer flat-chested and came back in the fall as a 36C, and by the time my breasts finally finished growing [about 10 years later] I was 42H.)

For at least some people, HRT does give them the breasts they would have had at female puberty, regardless of age. Or so I have to assume, because my wife's mother is a 32B and her sister around a D-cup, so there's clearly something else at work in her genetics! Oh, and she started in her early 30s.

You could try one of these systems http://www.mybrava.com/home.asp.  I believe its one of the only scientifically proven ways to get enlargement without some sort of hormones.

Quote from: blueconstancy on December 01, 2012, 11:11:39 AM
I don't know if this is possible *without* any other changes (and for my wife it wasn't)... but my wife was an A-cup within a month, C-cup by 3 months, and at 3 years on HRT is 42DDD and still growing. She's probably a statistical outlier for both size and speed of development - she would be among cis women, too - but it does happen.

This is *very* encouraging... I understand these are not typical results but it's very good news that it is within the realms of possibilities!!  It's exactly the kind of results I had in mind when I decided I wanted to take hormones, to go up 2 cup sizes in 3 months would be a dream result.  Given that I do have the genetic predisposition for developing large breasts, and that I'm already filling out a DD cup pretty well... I think it's worth it to see what kind of growth I get in 3 months time!

I mean, if I don't get as good results there's no harm done, right?  My libido will return to normal after I stop the hormones and after such a short period of time there should be no lasting ED problems.  I can mentally prepare for the possibility that I won't be one of the lucky ones to see rapid growth, but it sounds like the risk is minimal and the chances good for a short term run to see how I respond.

I guess the next step is to talk to a doctor, the fact that I don't want a complete gender reassignment might be an obstacle but I'll just explain what I'm looking for and hopefully it's something they can help me with.

Thanks for the info, I'm pretty excited about this again, I was a little crestfallen when I read that the results typically were not very good with hrt

Time for some realism....

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AM
This is *very* encouraging... I understand these are not typical results but it's very good news that it is within the realms of possibilities!!

Do you understand what the phrase statitsical outlier means? The development in question happens like that in maybe 1 in a 1000 cases. The odds are heavily against anything like that happening to you

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AMIt's exactly the kind of results I had in mind when I decided I wanted to take hormones, to go up 2 cup sizes in 3 months would be a dream result.

Yes a 'dream result' is exactly what it is. What you will get depends on your genetics and there is no way to know in advance how it will turn out.

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AMGiven that I do have the genetic predisposition for developing large breasts,

You may or you may not... it depends what genes you got. Your female relatives do not have male levels of testosterone retarding their development.

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AM
... and that I'm already filling out a DD cup pretty well...

With what? You say you want to grow large boobs and now you say you are a DD cup? I am sorry but that sounds like trolling. Can you explain it please?

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AMI think it's worth it to see what kind of growth I get in 3 months time!

I can answer that one. You will have what are known as breast buds. They hurt. A lot.

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AMI mean, if I don't get as good results there's no harm done, right?  My libido will return to normal after I stop the hormones and after such a short period of time there should be no lasting ED problems.

Maybe, maybe not. There are NO guarantees.

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AMI can mentally prepare for the possibility that I won't be one of the lucky ones to see rapid growth, but it sounds like the risk is minimal and the chances good for a short term run to see how I respond.

Do you have any idea that hormones do more than cause breast growth? Are you prepared for the mental havoc they will cause you? There is also evidence that if you are not truly Gender Dysphoric, pumping up on female hormones will cause you massive anxiety attacks and other problems. Are you prepared for this? Hormones can cause havoc with your body and how you see yourself and how you feel about your body.

In the end you will do whatever you wish to do, but from reading what you have posted I think you are indulging in a fantasy without any idea of the true consequences of what may happen.

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 11:52:17 AMThanks for the info, I'm pretty excited about this again, I was a little crestfallen when I read that the results typically were not very good with hrt

Exactly. The word 'typically' describes the most likely outcome. The outcome that you are most likely to get. Small boobs. A cups, not DD cups.

In any case, talking to a doctor should *definitely* be the next step, as they can better inform you of what you could likely expect in three months. I did want to put out there that it wasn't unheard-of to get those sorts of results that fast, with the idea that a short trial might be exactly what you wanted (as you say, you can quit if nothing's happened in that time)... but I also have to reiterate what Bev says about statistical unlikelihood. It may not hurt to try, but you're also wise to be planning to "prepare yourself" for a less desirable outcome.

That said, I dunno why my friends are different, but after three years of interacting with dozens of my wife's (and now my) trans female friends, most did end up exceeding a B-cup, often by quite a lot. But it usually took several years, too. Still, most agree that it appears likely they did get the development their genes would have given them at first puberty, with the caveat that of course barring a time machine nobody truly knows what that *is.*

On the third hand... You don't know what your genes are, either; there are throwbacks, and even cis girls can't always accurately predict by looking at their female relatives. It's a crapshoot, no matter what age puberty or breast growth begins.

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Thank you, hugs, Devlyn

bev2,

Like I mentioned, I have investigated the process of hrt and I am aware that the typical results are less than I was hoping for, the reason for my excitement is I was under the impression that the kind of growth I was hoping for was just not possible... but here I have an anecdotal account of better results than I was hoping for.

Also, like I said in the beginning of the thread, I'm not looking for gender reassignment.  I am aware that I don't fit into the Male/Female dichotomy with what I'm looking for, that doesn't mean I'm a troll or just fantasizing.  I don't know if I qualify exactly as gender dysphoric... I do know that I don't fit into what society considers an appropriate male gender role and crossdressing for me has always brought relief from the pressure to fit into a role I don't feel at all suited for.

But that doesn't mean I'd feel perfectly at home in a female gender role either.  Things can be more complex than black and white, and I'm not sure I can quantify my exact position on the gender spectrum.  Yes, I do wear a DD size bra, but that's because I'm a big guy and I don't fill the cups out perfectly.  I have big guy breasts and I would prefer female breasts.

Here's what I'm working with now:  http://i.imgur.com/8k88C.jpg

Do I really have to justify myself?  Does the fact that I already wear a decent sized cup mean I don't deserve to enhance my body to make my breasts decidedly feminine?  Maybe I'm reading you wrong but your post comes off as rather hostile.  I'm pretty sure I've made it clear that my feet are on the ground about my chances, but my point was this information gave me new hope and that was a good thing.

Ok, while I do agree that bev could have been a bit nicer in stating her point, I found that she had merit. Statistically speaking, there is very little chance you will grow large breasts in a short period of time. If you stay on hormones for a long time, you go into the realm where certain effects become irreversible, such as testicular atrophy, sterility, etc.

I for one understand the gray areas in gender, but I think you should weigh your options.

PS--> I think bev was asking why you want to take hormones if you can already fill a D cup. It sounds like you already have breasts?

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Do I really have to justify myself?

No

Quote from: DietFresca on December 01, 2012, 01:17:02 PM
Maybe I'm reading you wrong but your post comes off as rather hostile.

I posted what I did for your good. Please think about it carefully. I shall make no further comments on this thread.

I wish you good luck in your journey.

Um, I don't know what I think about this. I think it is interesting. Personally, after the few months since I began this whole journey, I've become much more open and accepting of people. I would say that if someone wants to take hormones for whatever reason, then they have the right to.

I think that the original poster did the responsible thing though in posting on this forum. I would applaud her? for that. (I'm not sure what gender they want to be and that's alright with me now. From the picture I'd say female though) Anyway, I'd recommend they seek a gender therapist and an endocrinologist in order to continue doing the "responsible thing." The irresponsible thing would be at this point to take anything written on this forum as the definite answer to all life's problems.

I would dissuade strongly against the taking of "natural hormones," especially without a doctor's supervision. Its a waste of money, and a possible waste of life. They will do nothing because the body will naturally try to correct an imbalance resulting from natural sources such as herbs. In fact, you would want it to! You just ate a poisonous mushroom, you want your body to try to work with it? No, you want it to filter it out! (Unless of course you ate magic shrooms, but that's another argument!)

Ultimately, I say take the hormones. Begin with spiro, then introduce estradiol (all under a doctor's watch of course)

"Ye have what I advise" (Milton, Paradise Lost, II, 283).

Quote from: Hippolover25 on December 03, 2012, 08:42:34 PM
The irresponsible thing would be at this point to take anything written on this forum as the definite answer to all life's problems.

I think we all know that. I never trust the internet 100%. 

However, I do think it bears repeating to be careful with hormones. Take them if you want, but I just want you to be informed before doing so, especially if you want to have kids someday. Taking HRT for too long can lead to permanent sterility, for example.