I know this is long and a bit rambling but I really could use some advice...

So, today is a bad day. The first I have had in a few months, but worse than most. I woke up with this overwhelming sadness, this longing for my husband. This has not happened to me in almost 6 months, my bad days are always related to something completely off the wall but never missing who she was before. My wife and I are very trusting and secure in our relationship with one another, we both have friends of all genders and neither of us minds if we are with them alone. I think this may have helped trigger my morning meltdown. Last night one of our mutual male friends came over as my wife was leaving for work. He rented us a movie and we ate a pizza and just hung out on the couch and goofed off with the kids until she came home. At this point we all ended up curled up on the couch together (We have a love seat as a sofa as our house is a bit small lol) me leaning on our friend, his arm around my shoulders, with my legs curled up in my wife's lap. I honestly didn't think anything of it until this morning when she mentioned I had looked like I was enjoying being held by a man again (with no animosity)... Then it hit me, all the things I was missing, the heat that doesn't radiate from her like it did before, the smell of his cologne and deodorant that was replaced by the smell of her lotion, the comfort of thicker arms holding me... maybe just the general company of a man. And it hurt.

I hadn't realized just how much I do miss my husband, which is strange because my husband was kind of a jerk  , My wife on the other hand is the most caring and understanding person I've ever known. She has explained to me time and time again that she understands that I am heterosexual and she knows I am attracted to men and that she understands if I need the physical aspects of a heterosexual relationship (I also find my wife incredibly attractive..). She tells me that I'm not doing anything wrong by wanting sex in that way. But I still feel so bloody guilty about it. (Let me be clear here, I have NEVER been with another person since the day our relationship started) I feel guilty for being attracted to people that aren't her, I feel guilty for wanting what she cant give me, I feel guilty for making her feel bad even though it is never my intention. I cant help but feel crappy, it's just what I do.

She tells me that if I were to decide I want to be with a man that no matter what we are bound together forever, no matter what our relationship status... This scares the hell out of me... It comes across like she is trying to 'give me an out' so to say.  We've on occasion broached the topic of an open marriage, she says that it couldn't work because someone always gets attached even when it is known in the very beginning that it's nothing more than a physical need being met. The way she said this made it sound very much like an open marriage would be the end of our marriage.......

I cant change my sexuality. I am attracted to men. But I love my wife. No matter what physical needs I have, no matter what I do during the day, no matter where I go, SHE is what I want to come home to at night. Every night. I need a solution, a suggestion, anything! Will the want for the 'norm' of what I was before ever go away? Am I wrong for wanting to have what I did before AND wanting to keep her the way I have her now?? If I suppress it enough can I make it stop? Does anyone understand a word of this??

First off, I admire you standing by your wife and being so supportive in her transition! Now from what I understand of your post, it sounds like your wife changed a lot after coming out to you and being true to herself. This is going to take some time for you to adjust. Change is definitely scary and it's something that most people resist tooth and nail. Change can be fun too, though. 
Maybe looking at your needs from a logical perspective can help you out? What is it about male companionship that is so important to you? My situation is quite different from yours in that while I was with my boyfriend I never found 'men' attractive. The female body is so much sexier! Of course, my boyfriend was not much of a 'man'. His body resembled a yaoi boy if anything and his personality was very fem For me, now that my girlfriend is out, our relationship has improved ten fold. and I didn't even think it could get better. She has become so much more open about EVERYTHING. But yeah, before she was out, we were not very sexual (and we had been together 7 years). We've still never had penetrative sex because of her dysphoria, but before I knew that was the reason this used to frustrate me to no end. I ended up getting on anti-depressants and it changed everything. Apparently those things kill your sex drive. I still take them, but I find I can allow myself to be turned on when I want and it doesn't just randomly happen anymore.
I really don't know what to tell you to do other than that. It sounds like other than sexually, you two have a wonderful relationship. Do you two attempt anything in the bedroom any more? Maybe you could give it a try if you haven't? Experiment around and keep an open mind. Good luck and keep us updated

As someone who is married to a queer cisfemale and also in an open marriage with her and another female, it is quite possible to arrange almost anything in a mutually satisfying, rewarding, loving way. The only key is communication, obsessive compulsive irrationally frequent and thorough COMMUNICATION!! Keep talking, and if there is love between you (and it sounds like there is), you'll work it out fine. Just start thinking outside the proverbial box.

I always felt that the requirement "Thou shalt want only one person after marriage" to be based on the bible's "10 commandments."

There is nothing wrong with wanting, it's when you act on the want that there's a problem.

Sounds like you two have a very good, communicative relationship...be sure to tell your partner that he's the one you want to come home to AND be held by...

Quote from: Beth Andrea on December 01, 2012, 09:35:02 AM
Sounds like you two have a very good, communicative relationship...be sure to tell your partner that he's the one you want to come home to AND be held by...

I think you meant "she's the one" Beth.   

I'd be asking myself, Do I want an occasional lay or the love of someone who loves me for who I am?

Apologies for the bluntness. But I know what I'd go for.

I want to know I totally understand. But the love you get from commitment is as absolute as the commitment. Which means I agree with beth.

Corrected because I didn't feel comfortable with the euphemism. 19.22

Frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with you wanting a heterosexual physical relationship. There is also nothing wrong with acting on those urges considering that your wife has told you it's ok. She, like many other trans folks, knows that people have specific sexual orientations. That means that it would be very difficult to keep a physical relationship going after transition unless you're with a bisexual individual.

In short, you want a man, but you're with a woman, and that isn't exactly compatible to your physical needs. That won't go away no matter how much you want it to. There is no way you can have what you had before and keep your wife as she is now; there's a reason why they call it "transition," i.e, change.

It sounds like you and your wife have a more friendly relationship than anything else. You deserve to be happy, so it may not be a bad idea to make some adjustments. There is no reason you can have a relationship that is both loving and physical. I'm sorry if you don't want to hear this, but your wife isn't the only person out there who will love you.

I think like already stated that communication is key in any relationship but this rule more so applies to special "different" relationships.

I don't think we are as simple as I'm straight so I need a straight relationship to feel totally for filled. Love is a choice and comes in many flavours and sure there are probably a lot more options out there for you in this regard but it sounds like you are resolved in your love for your wife.

I think you need to talk to your wife and put it out there and maybe things won't go according to plan but there are two of you in this relationship and you actually never know what the wants and needs are of your partner until you ask.

I wish you the best in which ever way you chose to handle this.

Andi.

Hmm, it didn't take long for me on anti depressants, maybe a couple of weeks? It's worked for me on zoloft and effexor. I tried wellbutrin but it didn't really do anything for me. I guess it depends on which drug family it's in and of course I'm sure the side effects vary. Other advise, maybe just use porn until your wife is comfortable enough in her body?

Quote from: GypsySoul on December 01, 2012, 02:38:53 PM
Which is why I have not 'layed' with anyone else LOL. I love my wife more than anything and I would never do anything to hurt her. Even if it means suppressing my sexuality until her surgery and seeing what can work out afterwards.

Thank you for responding. I think we are very similar in that respect. I've been with my wife for about 30 years. No regrets at all. She is the best in every way.

We don't do sex simply because, when we both faced up to reality, we realised we just didn't like it.

I've had loads of opportunities and know my wife has. I've been tempted, very tempted. I've rationalised, tried to think of how it might work. But we both know, no matter how good that offer is, no matter how much of a prospect there may be of a long term relationship with that person, neither of us wants to walk away.

It may seem a little unhealthy perhaps, but I can't imagine life without my wife.

Best of luck.

Love Jill

You're not crazy love.

But you may need to negotiate things a little. You haven't been specific, but I get the impression you haven't talked about these things.

We're sexual creatures. But we're alos social and strong, reliable, stable relationships are very important to us. We need these.

Is there any reason you can't find other outlets, other ways to explore yourself and possibly, but not necessarily, each other?

Now the discussion has so far worked against, you having a physical experience outside your marriage.

Perhaps you need to think about what would happen if you did that.

Could you be with a man who you didn't find intellectually as well as emotionally attrractive? Could you simply walk away for that? Can you deal with the consequences of starting with someone else, including the insecurities and uncertainties?

You see, for my wife and I, we thought about that. I know, for my part, I couldn't. I couldn't even begin a relationship with someone who I didn't really like in every way. I can see my self going into a terible situation, as I have done before, sadly. But more, I can't face up to the thought that my wife won't be there.

Now that's us. Before you can think about alternatives, you need to think about what will happen. You are mature enough to know that relationships, especially with men, are rarely a bed of roses. Most men are jerks and liars, let's face it.

I'm sorry, I think I may have brought you back to square one. But then again, hopefully I've pointed out some of the things you really need to be thinking about and then, perhaps, some of the alternatives.

When my love was sexually distant, even though I knew she identified as asexual, I still thought there was something wrong with me as well. I felt that there must be something disgusting about me. Before she came out, we tried being sexual with each other and she still could not touch my parts, she cuddled all of me but my genitals. That was the only thing she did, all other times were filled with a barrage of compliments and loveyness. However, since she has come out, I told her how I was feeling and she has worked VERY hard to set me straight! It probably doesn't help that she has ocd even though it's gotten a lot better. The fact is that she regrets very much that I had been feeling these things and goes out of her way and is fighting past her comfort zone to try  to make me feel better. It has worked <3 Maybe if you tell your wife that you have been feeling these things she would put forth a bit of effort for you? It sounds like you two are very open, maybe you could do something for her in the bedroom that makes her feel like a woman?

I know you will. Many of us get through our personal frustrations on here, as you have done and will.

I just think it's a matter of priorities. But I must say, I've really enjoyed this conversation.

Hi muffinpants. I went through a similar anguish, when my wife told me to stop trying. I knew then as now I was trying so hard and I was trying because I thought I had to. I thought I'd lose her if I didn't.

It was only later that I realised I didn't need to at all. She is here for life.

I don't really like sex. I don't really like it with women, though know it would be hurtful to tell most of them that. I went off with men because, I'm sorry to dwell, but most are bullies and jerks.

Take care love. Jill

It sounds like there are two, or possibly three, issues intertwined here.

First, you miss interacting with (being held by, smelling, feeling) a man. Which is perfectly natural, and most likely nothing will fix it but time and adjustment. I admit that even 3+ years post-transition, I occasionally look at a guy and think "I miss what it was like to be held against a hard strong chest," but now it's a wistful sort of thing instead of painful or a "need."

Second, you miss having sex with a man. Nothing will help *this* except either actually doing it occasionally or eventually learning to ignore that particular desire, and which you choose (and how often) is going to depend on how close to "need" that feeling is. I will say - since most discussion here has trended slightly against it - that taking outside partners to satisfy that IS a solution, and plenty of people have made it work. There are a million ways to do poly, and as long as you start from a place of love, respect, and communication, most of them will work out pretty well. But it does take a lot of work, and you have to decide if it's worth it to you to negotiate these tricky waters while also facing transition with your wife. (Full disclosure : we are poly, we have had multiple partners in the past, but we put that on hold until we were both finished with transition eating up ALL of our spare mental energy.)

Thirdly, it sounds like you also just plain miss sex, and sex with your wife. I really liked what someone said in another thread about sexual desire not defining a relationship, but that's not a solution if you do *want* it. So the good news is, solving the question of how to have sex with your wife might even eliminate issue #2 there, right? And you've said that while you're straight, you still find her sexually attractive, so you're in a good starting point. You don't have to wait for her to be post-op for that, either; for the last year before she had GRS, my wife and I managed to have a mutually satisfying experience without ever involving anything on her below the waist. This will probably also take some talking and/or negotiation, but I would bet there are things which would please her that have nothing to do with the genitals, and there's even the option of her using a strap-on (they make them for people who already have penises, believe it or not) if she's comfortable with that. 

And you already know that this *is* temporary, and you're both trying to find a way to muddle through the mid-transition and pre-op spaces, which is difficult but there's an end to look forward to. Who knows, post-op she might even be willing to use a strap-on or otherwise give you some of the "masculine" things you miss in bed (my wife found that with her gender dysphoria entirely gone, she occasionally enjoys revisiting some of her old habits, because it's just something she's doing to please me and not Acting Like A Man per se). So my real advice - and believe me, you have all my sympathy here, too - is to hang tight and see if you can find compromises that will work in the short term, because once transition is over and GRS is done so much will have changed.

In other words, you do NOT have to solve the entire problem of how to be married to and spend the rest of your life with a woman right now. I remember believing that... and the whole mess seemed so insurmountable that I wanted to hide under the bed and never come out. (And I'm bisexual and prefer women, so that wasn't even a major issue!) It seems obvious, but reminding myself frequently that I was only trying to find a way to cope with this one little piece of the question at a time, and that any temporary solutions could always be replaced later on, helped a lot.

Glad it helped!

I also forgot to add that, since you asked, I felt all of the things you describe, at one time or another. I don't think any of it is bizarre or even unreasonable, although obviously some of those feelings are *inconvenient.*

Hey Gypsy,

You're right.  You can't change your sexuality.  Yes, there is a certain degree of fluidity over time in things like gender and sexual identity, but one fact remains.  Whatever it may be at this moment, your sexual identity is as much a natural part of you which must be respected as is the gender identity of your partner.

So don't feel bad about it.  Everybody has physical needs and wants.  Maybe, in some "perfect" theoretical world, your relationship would be cleaner if you didn't feel them.  That's no reason to beat yourself up over it.  You do feel them, and that's perfectly normal, and dealing with things like this is a natural part of any relationship.  Heck, there are plenty of hetero couples whose sexual interests and physical comfort desires don't line up perfectly.

It sounds like you have an understanding partner who gets where you're coming from and is willing to talk about it.  It sounds like you love them, and they love you.  That's not an answer in itself.  But it's a great place to start from.

I wouldn't call this a "problem" that needs a "solution".  It's just a reality in your relationship right now which should be dealt with.  Ultimately, your answer can only be negotiated and created in the space between you and your partner.  I would talk with them openly about it, though taking care to do it with love and without recrimination.  Share your feelings and desires.  Even if you can't easily find a solution, open dialogue itself will liberate you from much of the "weight" you're carrying.  Remember, this isn't some issue you're "creating".  Sexual matters in a relationship are always something which must be dealt with together, openly and with caring and understanding.

My only suggestion here is to start with honesty.  And I mean real, unrestrained honesty.  From what I've seen, probably the biggest initial hurdle that couples faces in talking about a sexual matter is that they can't communicate their wants clearly because they're not willing to be completely honest about them.  Too often do issues go unaddressed because people aren't willing to be open or engage in sexually frank talk.  I would start with being honest with yourself.  Ask yourself some hard questions about your own personal experience, while taking care to avoid going down the road of feeling deprived or aggrieved.  What specifically do I want out of sex that I don't feel I'm getting?  What specific emotional feelings?  What specific physical sensations?  Ask yourself the same things about non-sexual physical intimacy.

When you start dealing with honest self-examination and specific feelings, you move out of the realm of generically "missing something".  You move into the realm of knowing what you want and being able to potentially negotiate some kind of compromise which helps you feel better.  If you're looking for a way that the two of you can deal with this, I think that's a decent place to start.

Hey Gypsy...just came back to see how things were going...they sound like they're still going, which is good! Reading some of the posts since my post, I might add that if you miss the "feel" of a man or or having sex like with a man, apart from finding fun men to incorporate into your lives (as I suggested before), there are a wide range of accessories your wife can ahem attach that would put any man to shame. The two of you should browse online... And I would also add that if your wife is unwilling to do this for you, then there may in fact be a slight problem, because sometimes we might have to do things that might not be our very favorite or something that doesn't get us off in order to make our partner(s) happy. If she is interested in your happiness, she'll be happy to do it, even if it doesn't "do anything for her". Just some more thoughts.... good luck!