Quote from: Rita on December 11, 2012, 09:30:41 AM
In terms of absolute strength someone born XY has a slight advantage. In reality though no one really hits that peak thus men and woman can be at the same level of strength.  Talking genetics and not gender.  It might be more difficult but that builds character.

Now in a few years I expect to hear " I am pressing more than everyone else in the gym". 

And if your mom says anything else you can just lift her over your head and be like whut?

It's his hormones that give him the advantage, not the fact he was born with a penis.

Quote from: JasonRX on December 11, 2012, 12:07:38 PM
It's his hormones that give him the advantage, not the fact he was born with a penis.

This.  Considering not all people born XY are born with penises anyway, it's not about the genes.

BS. I just got back from the gym and I can lift more than half my buddies I go with and I'm 7 months on T. Yes, you need to work up to it, but these guys are the same size as me, if not bigger. The more you work and the longer you're on T, the smaller any strength gap will be.

Who gives a damn about a bench press. I rather do a dumbell press anyways. None of them are going to be lifting that much weight between a couple dumbbells. I guarantee it.

Quote from: Casey on December 10, 2012, 10:16:54 PM
I'm sorry, but your mother's comment made me laugh out loud. I don't think the uterus has an awful lot to do with strength.

The uterus is the most powerful muscle of the human specie, capable of exerting a force equivalent 100 times the wight of its owner.

In contrast the gastronimious can exert only seven time the weight of its owner, so yeah do the math

One for the girls, LOL


When it comes to you,  at 18YO, with the right training and hormone dosing, and depending on your height and bone configuration, there is no reason why you cannot press like the other guys

I'm seeing some confusing messages here reference bodybuilding and strength.  Bodybuilding is about building size and definition - it's not about building strength.  There are many people that have very muscular physiques that don't have the strength their size suggests.  Powerlifters are all about strength and not about the size and definition.  So the better question is do you want to be strong or muscular?  or both?

And i agree that the "born female" thing is mostly crap.  The only thing that you may have going against you is the size of your frame and the placement of your muscle attachments  (I believe post-pubescent males generally have wider ribcages and sometimes shoulders).

I'm going the other direction from you (mtf) but here's an example of what I'm talking about:  on my last military deployment I was working on powerlifting.  After four months at the gym I could pick up 600 pounds on the bench press (clear the rests and hold for 10 seconds).  My full bench max was over 350.  I'm 5'8" and weighed about 180 at the time.. and I didn't look big.  And I could leg press over 1500 pounds easy.  And I wasn't juicing or taking any supplements other than the occasional protein shake and sometimes NOS. (and was 39 y.o. btw)  It's NOT about size.  It's about muscular density and muscular strength.  I see no reason why a FAAB with the right chemistry and dedication couldn't do as well or better. 

Well, it is my understanding that the Olympics and most sporting bodies say after a certain amount of time on hormones the transgender athlete can compete in thier proper gender for the event.

Since mtfs are not dominating women's events I would say that it is a pretty sound policy and that if there were some sort of advantage from being born xy it would have to be negligible.

So after some time on T and determination in the gym you could equal or surpass anyone there (of similar height).

I see a huge difference between weightlifting and strength.  Weightlifting is basically static, where strength tends to be viewed in a more dynamic - real world - kind of way.  There are several jobs - police, firefighter - that have requirements for strength and I'd be interested in hearing from people who know what they are. 

For what I do (union stagehand) the requirements are:
Men - pick up and carry 75lbs 25 feet
Women - pick up and carry 50lbs 25 feet.

Quote from: BearGuy on December 10, 2012, 09:12:20 PM
I want to become both, a bodybuilder and a powerlifter. I'm 18, I just started T a month ago exactly. I've been working out for a while. While I can bench about 125-130lb, cisgender guys at my age can bench 350+. Some can hit 450.

Is this coming from what you've seen at the gym or are you just listening to what guys are telling you? I stopped powerlifting a bit under two years ago but was obsessed until then. From what I've seen in tons of gyms I can tell you it's really not very common for guys of any age to be benching 350+. The average athletic guy at the gym is usually pushing 200-225. 350-450 range bench max isn't that common. Don't let these misconceptions or what anyone else is doing discourage you, there's actually not that huge of a strength difference between male and female, one of the biggest differences is the fact that testosterone allows people to build strength faster...it does not create a strength cap nor prevent anyone growing strong.

Quote from: BearGuy on December 10, 2012, 09:12:20 PMI told my mom today that I feel like crap about this. She said: "You'll always remain a woman even on T. You'll always carry female blood. Your uterus and ovaries will never allow you the strength of a man. Even after years on T you'll still never compare to a real man in strength".

I hate when people let me down. Is any of what she said true at all? And on T, if I work out regularly, can I be as strong as a cisgender male? Or will my strength always be just above average for female?

No she's 100% incorrect. Also there is no "strong as a cis male"...there are plenty of physically weak cismen just as there are many strong ciswomen. Fortunately, there are plenty of ciswomen who are stronger than the average cismen.

Laura Phelps benching 510

Bear,

I used to work out a little for social basketball (tried to get enough vertical jump to dunk - never quite managed that btw).  My benchpress at it's best was only ever 70kg (150lbs), so I was always rather puny.

I would advise that you don't obsess about the numbers that you're putting up - ask yourself more about whether you're doing the best that you can each time you're at the gym, and if you are, then that's reason enough to feel good about yourself. 

As far as I can recall, the effect of T on muscle is physiological.  Off the top of my head I don't remember reading about differences in the fast twitch/slow twitch muscle ratios of males and females so the chances are being on T should allow you to pretty much be able to get as strong as a cis-male.

I'd always heard that it's not just body size or T that give XY males an advantage, it's also their organs. They're said to have larger more powerful lungs, etc. Also the way the pelvis is shaped is supposed to aid in running strength, stamina, etc. I don't know enough about biology to know whether this is true.

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 12, 2012, 07:24:15 PM
I'd always heard that it's not just body size or T that give XY males an advantage, it's also their organs. They're said to have larger more powerful lungs, etc. Also the way the pelvis is shaped is supposed to aid in running strength, stamina, etc. I don't know enough about biology to know whether this is true.

Well cardiovascular capacity may be increased by larger lungs etc, but I do wonder what effects hormones have on the organs, I read somewhere that bladder size decreases in MTFs on hormones over time, on average women have smaller bladders than men. Of course so much of this stuff is hard to verify, and an elastic tissue shrinking like the bladder isn't the same thing as say lungs getting bigger....

I will see if I can track down that article

Quote from: Forum Admin on December 12, 2012, 07:24:15 PM
I'd always heard that it's not just body size or T that give XY males an advantage, it's also their organs. They're said to have larger more powerful lungs, etc. Also the way the pelvis is shaped is supposed to aid in running strength, stamina, etc. I don't know enough about biology to know whether this is true.

I'm sure this also varies with everyone too though, like everything else. I would guess males organs are typically larger though because their bodies are also typically built larger though.

Quote from: JasonRX on December 11, 2012, 12:07:38 PM
It's his hormones that give him the advantage, not the fact he was born with a penis.

Didn't mean to offend, I am talking absolutes.  Hormones do a ton of the work~ I would never disagree.   On estrogen, I expect that  I would need to work harder to build the same muscle mass as anyone on testosterone.

But physical biology on a whole has an affect on your maximum output.  Thing is most people will never meet their maximum output~ therefore its all a moot point.
 

"female blood" sounds like something out of the middle ages.

Quote from: GnomeKid on December 13, 2012, 10:05:12 AM
"female blood" sounds like something out of the middle ages.

Not only did I chuckle at this, but I totally agree.
Thank you.

Quote from: RedFox on December 11, 2012, 04:52:01 PM
on my last military deployment I was working on powerlifting.  After four months at the gym I could pick up 600 pounds on the bench press (clear the rests and hold for 10 seconds).  My full bench max was over 350.  I'm 5'8" and weighed about 180 at the time.. and I didn't look big.  And I could leg press over 1500 pounds easy.  And I wasn't juicing or taking any supplements other than the occasional protein shake and sometimes NOS. (and was 39 y.o. btw)

Is it a joke? After four months?  It is absolutely impossible

Quote from: Berserk on December 11, 2012, 06:16:57 PM
Is this coming from what you've seen at the gym or are you just listening to what guys are telling you? I stopped powerlifting a bit under two years ago but was obsessed until then. From what I've seen in tons of gyms I can tell you it's really not very common for guys of any age to be benching 350+. The average athletic guy at the gym is usually pushing 200-225. 350-450 range bench max isn't that common. Don't let these misconceptions or what anyone else is doing discourage you, there's actually not that huge of a strength difference between male and female, one of the biggest differences is the fact that testosterone allows people to build strength faster...it does not create a strength cap nor prevent anyone growing strong.

Yes it is true.
I am a cisgender male.

I'm much stronger than my cisgender male partner and I'm not even on T. He's the same height as me but my build is just naturally more muscular. He even lifts more than I do but I'm still stronger.

People make assumptions that ALL women are just weaker than men and ALL men are so much more buff than women. On the whole they tend to be, and they don't tend to be as interested in developing their muscles but no, you can prove them wrong. Men come in all different builds and sizes too.

She's also wrong by saying you'll always have female blood. If you're on T your blood will have more in common with male blood than female blood.

I did a construction job off and on till I was 21 but was always strong, I could lift my older sister buy the time I was 12. The construction job only made me stronger. I  then went back to lifting people in healthcare.  Go figure,  any way just started lifting again and can bench 150lbs and counting.  Just started T and can't wait to see what a beast I am gonna be....

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Quote from: BearGuy on December 10, 2012, 09:12:20 PM
I told my mom today that I feel like crap about this. She said: "You'll always remain a woman even on T. You'll always carry female blood. Your uterus and ovaries will never allow you the strength of a man. Even after years on T you'll still never compare to a real man in strength".

Your mom is talking smack. You will get as strong as your genetics allow on T. You can always have a total hysterectomy and may eventually need to for health reasons anyway. Then your only E will come from your fat deposits.

Starting at 18 your bones may not have fused yet and you definitely have a chance to get your skeleton to be more robust.

There is no end of pics of ripped ftm dudes on T, just look around. There are even ftm competitive bodybuilders. I'm not even 6 months on T and had to stop working out for top surgery and I've had major redistribution of flesh upwards. Looks like I'm never going back to S/XS shirts, heh.