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Quote from: muuu on December 15, 2012, 04:14:34 PM
So, isn't it a pretty bad idea to meet family and others while you're transitioning? Because those relationships can never work out after it's "done" (passing and full-time).

Excuse me? Me and my family have a fantastic relationship with me as a girl. You need to stop projecting negativity onto others. If you think it's fair to abandon YOUR family because YOU don't trust anybody, then fine. But you're borderline insulting ME and MY family by implying that just because I'm trans, then we are unfit to love each other.

Your problem is YOU! You don't give people enough credit. That's not their problem, it's YOURS.

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I may be wrong but it sounds like you do not even want to give them a chance,it sounds like your mom is willing to see you through it and you are the rejecting her. How do you know that she would not be the best one to help you through it if you never even try?

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Yeah, they *never* work out? That seems remarkably pessimistic. (I'm assuming, for the sake of argument, that you at least don't mean spouses, because that would be kinda ridiculous. I absolutely do see my wife as a woman now, though, and I was there for every minute of transition and every milestone.)

For the record, my wife's parents wanted to be there for her during transition because she's their *daughter,* and they love her, and wanted to help however they could with the tough times in her life. Not to mention that they'd miss her if she vanished for a year! And they're actually both a lot better with her now than ever before - neither side really knew how to relate when she was a boy*, is my guess. Her sisters ditto.

Obviously I don't know anything about your mother either, but it does sound like this is you projecting...


*she considers herself to have truly been a boy, for a while. This is not in any way meant to reflect on how any other trans person defines their experience.

Quote from: muuu on December 15, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
Mmh...

My point is... Why would I want to expose her for a gradual change? It'd only make it harder for her to see change.
It should be way better to cut off contact completely for a year... And then start over. I think it'd be way easier for everyone to make a new image of you that way.

Like, her view of me seems to be sooo wrong. She doesn't even seem to realize that I'm a bit depressed or that I've ever had an ED (and I really wasn't that good at hiding my ED... I'd use 1-2 hours to each one sandwich and try to hide and throw food so I wouldn't have to eat it. And that went on my whole life, so it shouldn't have been that hard to pick up. She even fking gave me tips when I had to weight myself at the doctors, telling me to drink A LOT of water so that I'd have some extra weight).
She seems to think I'm just a guy wanting to be a girl without any problems at all. Because well, I've come out, then there's nothing else that might bother me. I guess Because I'm still a guy I shouldn't be worried about my body or anything else.
Like yeah, I have no idea what she actually thinks at all. I mean, she must've created an image of me where I'm all positive somehow, I guess because she's had her own problems to deal with. Maybe I'm just being paranoid about it, but I really don't see how things could work out if I continued seeing my family.

I don't understand where the above poster drew issue but I think I understand what you're getting at. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you're worried that your families old prototype image will fail to reflect the changes happening to you. Which is an astute observation, if only because, those prototype images we have of people are really slow to update new data. For example, a friend dyes their hair, or a guy friend shaves his facial hair and it takes a moment for you to recognize the change.  Its just the way the brain works and as such a unconscious action.

I don't know if suspending familial relations is best, only you can decide that. Perhaps just calling out the elephant in the room? Is your mother open to being educated?  Its possible you can be the teacher in this situation. Be patient, gentle and understanding and things may go more smoothly than you fear.

My relationship with my family during transition has had some rough patches but has been mostly positive and even improved in some ways.

I wish my mom were that accepting. If you think it's a good plan, then fine. However, explain your reasons to them so you don't make them feel bad.

 It is my experience that a person, even a mother, can eventually adjust to seeing you in your new sex and gender role. Your mother sounds really loving, and I think it would be a shame if you were to avoid her for the sake of passing better to her. This shouldn't be an issue in any case, because loving parents deserve to see you no matter what state you are in. After all, they raised you, cared for you, and want to continue to know you - even if they only know a little about you, from your perspective.

A caring family is the best asset a person can have in their lives. Friends will come and go, but a family that cares will, typically, continue for years to come.

I have struggled with my family over this, and it certainly did take time, but it's worth all the effort. Especially now, because my family is, presently, all I have.

I hope you will realign your theory, even if only for that fact that antisocial tendencies are incredibly unhealthy. Take it from this hypocrite. 

Well - If you're family is making an attempt to get to know you as a woman. Then I think it would be wrong to let go of them if even for a year.

I am sure that it's not just me but a lot of us wish our families would support us and see us through. Transition can leave a person lonely and vulnerable for sometime and it is always best to have someone with you who you can trust.

Here, you're family is willing to get to know you, and I won't deny that you do have a point. But completely cutting them off is wrong especially if they are trying to understand and get to know you.

Perhaps some middle ground might make more sense?

I can't speak to the idea of gradual change, because I've never experienced it. I tend to do change whole hog, like everything else in my life. If I need to do something to continue living (or to start living) I'm not going to do it half-heartedly or with trepidation. I might have to follow steps, but my friends and loved ones, to the degree I can trust them, are WELCOME to follow me through this transition and EVERY OTHER transition major and minor in my life. It's what we do.

For example, my friends and colleagues at work did see me becoming more feminine in my dress and mannerisms for a few months before I couldn't take it any longer, joyfully came out to my whole company, and started presenting fully as female in every way from the very next day, for ever more. It was never a problem, except that it was confusing people when I was still nominally male but would be mistaken for a woman. By the way, I transitioned at 45 and was on hormones for 6 weeks only before I began living my life 24/7 my way. So its not like ANYTHING had changed about my body, except my confidence in my own skin. It was enough to change EVERYTHING.

My family, I honored by coming out to them before I did to the world. They started using my new name and pronouns from day one, immediately. I started dressing when I was with them as often as I could - who you going to practice on and get honest feedback from? They would have given me the same feedback, and watched me go through similar developments, if I had gone through puberty as a girl the first time, so what's the big challenge? Does ANYONE think a 25 year old woman is the same person she was when she was an 8 year old girl? Families adjust to gradual changes ALL THE TIME. Its what they were designed to do. And in my case, they are also great for handling surprises.

What I can tell you, which goes for everyone in your life, if you are able to make a change or announcement and stick to it, it helps them a ton. If you are female, give them a name and pronouns to start using IMMEDIATELY, and present as female as is safe to do whenever you are around them. It is a matter of respect, when you ask someone to start seeing you in a new way, to actually start - at least with them - presenting to them in that new way. That's all it takes. People are pretty fantastic, some more than others.

I may be in a different situation. My parents are long dead and could not accept me.

This is my first Christmas as me full time. I'm having my wife's family over for Christmas day ; Mum (90) 2 sister inlaws, 2 brother in laws, me and my very very disabled wife. They have all accepted me without an moments hesitation. Gradual transisition or not.  They accepted me with open arms and I love them before and since then.

Give people a chance.

If my 90 yr old mother in law from Bible Land USA can look me in the eye and accept me as a woman and not get a pronoun wrong, and tell me she loves me. Give people a chance.

Open your heart to others. Don't hide it.

You may be surprised.

Cindy

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Reading some of the stories of acceptance here I cannot help but feel a pang of jealously - forgive me girls - when I first came out to my mom she made it clear that she doesn't want me to do anything to "embarrass" them.

Now this is despite the fact that till that time my parents were very open minded and accepting and loving - and although they love me and care for me they just can't accept me. As painfull as this is - since I do care a lot for them - I can't transition fully and I am stuck in boy mode while I am staying with them.

All this makes me realize and makes me say this evenly firmly - If someone is trying to accept you as yourself to abandon them is just plain wrong.

I am sure that many of us have families whom they love but would never see again since they transitioned or since they are going to transition. This is something which forever would be a pain for each of us going through with their transition.

People's perceptions do change, be it with a gradual change or a sudden one. Of course, for the former, the change in perceptions is more gradual, because the physical changes are more gradual as well. But guess what? At the point where you'd have -poof- unveiled your new self, their gradually changing perceptions would be at the same exact level.

The only difference is that when you see those people regularly, they are able to support you and help you in your transition, and they'll feel loved, because you're implying them in something that's important to you.

If they're not gonna accept, if they're always going to see you as a guy (which obviously doesn't seem to be the case for you), a gradual or a sudden change won't change anything.

My parents have also passed.  I know Daddy would not be accepting.  Very old school.  Mom on the other hand would have been.  I think she knew, because of everything she taught me growing up.  And it is funny, she always would say 'boys need to know this too'.

My exes are not accepting.  My middle son and my daughter are.  My neighbor has been my friend for more than 15 years and she is still my friend.  She is about the only one who stayed when I began.

I am sorry about your parents - Cindy and Ms. OBrien.

muuu, I really hope for that for your own sake, won't go ahead and cut off your family who are trying to accept you.
Because I feel that someday you may regret it. We have only a limited amount of time on this earth and a lot less time to spend with some of our loved ones, please make it count.

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Quote from: muuu on December 16, 2012, 01:15:03 PM
Why are you guys being so negative about this?!

Because you're being EXTREMELY selfish to those around you! You are setting yourself up for your own personal devastation for absolutely NO reason than to fulfill some self constructed ideal guidelines for you to be happy.

Cut your "losses" and see where that gets you. If that's how you treat people close to you, then be ready for a very lonely life. People are going to probably clock you left and right due to your self esteem issues. Once one person clocks you, what keeps them from telling the world? Oh no, now the world sees you as trans, and because of your lack of "trust" will never be able to go out again. So all that work and fighting yourself comes out for nothing, because you'll never be able to live anywhere close to who you want to be... all because you want to be completely stealth or because you're too "scared" that you won't be treated as a cis woman... whatever that means.

I truly feel sorry for you and everybody around you. It's pretty sad that you're going to beat yourself to death over something so silly. But to each their own. Also, I feel sorry for everybody around you because I can see anybody who WANTS to be close to you, being scared off because you've laid a mountain of eggshells in their way. Which sucks for the rest of us because anybody they meet after you that happens to be trans, they'll wonder if they have to treat us the same way. Sad for everybody tbh.

Since you're a masochist, I want to give you some reading material. It's called "So You Want to be a T-girl?" ... I think it'll ground your reality. It's quite sad really. But I think you should read it. It's written by a girl that wrote it through her transition.

http://tgchatroom.com/wiki/index.php/So_You_Want_To_Be_a_T-Girl_(Chapter_1)
http://tgchatroom.com/wiki/index.php/So_You_Want_To_Be_a_T-Girl_(Chapter_2)
http://tgchatroom.com/wiki/index.php/So_You_Want_To_Be_a_T-Girl_(Chapter_3)

Just remember, you'll never be 100% stealth unless you hide behind a box your entire life. There's always going to be a moment where you're caught in a lie, where you have to tell somebody your past, somebody will overhear you talking to someone from your past, somebody will figure it out somehow.

Stealth is an illusion.

Good luck with your life! I bet you'll just love that awkward moment when you transition "completely" and all you worry about is if you pass, letting life fly right over your head. If you even get that far.