Now. Now, my children.  Let us be respectful.

Remember the TOS.

Quote from: muuu on December 16, 2012, 01:15:03 PM
Why are you guys being so negative about this?!

If they would ever talk about my childhood or keep pictures of me while little, it would be really offensive, any thoughts or anything relating to how I "was" before is offensive.
They think I was somebody who I wasn't, just a happy boy without any problems at all... If they want to cherish that, then I want to get away from them as far as I can.
Even though they don't know how I really was... Wanting to hold onto whatever false image they have of me is cold and horrible.
Maybe I sound dramatic, but it's still true, even if it could be toned down a bit. Holding onto something that was a bad time for somebody else is just selfish and borderline of evil.

Whatever picture they have of me, they'll simply adjust it slowly to make it fit better. I don't want a messed up image like that, it'll just make things horrible and unsustainable.
It's not only their image that would be screwed up... But how am I supposed to get away from my thoughts of always being in a way that pleases them?
Only way as I see it is to make sure that whatever image there is fades away as much as possible, so there can be something new instead. And so that I (and maybe them) aren't bound to past forced roles and masks. However long that may take... 1 year, 2 years or longer.

And no... I don't like that "Oh, but you must accept your past and live with it!". No I fking don't, I'll just forget it and find new things - I can't change it, but I don't have to live in it.
For example... Why would you make sure a recovered drug addict always remember that they've been stuck into drugs and ruined most part of their life? (assuming they are not in risk of relapse).
If they see themselves as open minded... Then you should tell them how hypocritical they are, and that they aren't any better homophobic or racist (they really aren't).
The way they treat you is completely wrong, and they should realize how evil and rotten they really are. - and yes, don't protect them from that... I'm not going to take that back.

Edit: ... sorry... forgot a "not" in my reply to alexia6...

Really?

If you think that people are going to entirely forget your past, you are fooling yourself.

If you don't accept your past for what it was and move on, you will never, ever get past it and it will haunt you for the rest of your life. Your past is also part of who you are..

And just for interests sake, I am a recovered drug addict and I never let myself forget it.. Why? It helps stop me from going there again.. All addicts have the potential for relapse.

In my personal case I went into my transition phase by expecting it to be bumpy, and focusing my energy around being as compassionate, patient, and accepting to my family during transition as possible. I wanted to be this to them, knowing that I wasn't the only one transitioning - but they would need to as well; I wanted to be sensitive and supportive of them through that. I wanted to embody what I needed from them. I didn't do it perfectly, but I really tried hard to be patient and compassionate.

It was bumpy, however my family has ultimately loved and supported me each in their own way along the way and has seen me through the whole process. My parents are to the point where both of them insisted on being at my side when I have surgery. It's been two years.

I have been misgendered many times, even in public, even heard my family say things that were hurtful to the trans community. "Disrespected" because of innocent ignorance though, not because they didn't love me or support me as their child or sibling - or that they didn't support trans people. I still get misgendered today from time to time by them - but I let it go or gently correct them. It's honestly happening less and less.

I believe that life is about compromises. I am willing to make compromises (when it comes to patience and compassion for those who transition with me) because I believe that maintaining these relationships makes my life richer. In my particular case, this philosophy has served me well in transition, and those that I love most are still by my side to this day.

It took me nearly 30 years to accept myself as a woman; to show myself that compassion and respect. I personally believe my family deserves a little compassion if it takes them two or three years to do the same.

.

Quote from: muuu on December 16, 2012, 11:42:32 PM
Well, guess why I don't want to see anyone who's known me.
If I don't need to be with people who're constantly reminding me of it, it'll probably be bearable. It might indeed be a part of me, but a part that would better be forgotten.
Mmh... Ok, drug addict might not have been the best example... just tried to think of something that could have a huge negative impact on your life.
Just change the example to somebody who's been abused/raped, nothing that should be remembered. Sure it's a bit different from being trans, but both are simply painful and yields nothing to keep.

This is just getting stupid and pretty pointless...
Nobody here seems to think and feel like I do, nobody values and fear the same things. Everyone (almost everyone) seem so open to people, and somewhat comfortable with yourself and everything, like there's no problem at all.

Most of my friends respect me enough that they don't ever remind me of the past - well, not in a gendered way. Some have even gone as far as doing a little memory editing, so as far as they care, I've always just been Kelly - eg one of my exGF's refers to me as her exGF.. Family are much the same.

Believe it or not, I once had a similar attitude about things as you seem to.. Turns out I simply was not giving my friends and family the credit they deserve. So how did I get from there to where I am now? The realisation that I was never a man - and most of the world knew it, at least on a sub-conscious level. I have always been who I am now.. I'm just a happier version of who I've always been - which has made things for family and friends much easier. I also realised that transition was not something I would go through entirely alone.. My friends and family would, after a fashion, all transition along with me.

Quote from: muuu on December 16, 2012, 11:42:32 PM

This is just getting stupid and pretty pointless...
Nobody here seems to think and feel like I do, nobody values and fear the same things. Everyone (almost everyone) seem so open to people, and somewhat comfortable with yourself and everything, like there's no problem at all.

Being trans isn't the best thing in the world for most people, but I would argue that it's not really the worst, either. What we were before we transitioned is an important part of us that is very unlike rape or abuse. Being the 'wrong' sex can be, and often is. a very painful experience, but what one does while suffering through this condition is still noteworthy. Unlike experiences with rape or abuse, being the 'wrong' sex is something endured for a large number of years... and your life doesn't stop because of it. It isn't all that you are, and it isn't the only thing that happens for those years. You continue to live, grow, and potentially enjoy life - wherever you can, at least.

You continue to make choices, and you live on in spite of your suffering. I don't think that one's life before transition is something that should be thrown away. Imagine if someone who was trying to recover from chronic depression wanted to forget the years they spent depressed, saying that it wasn't really them, and that it was painful and yielded nothing positive? If that were the appropriate response to hard times, I would have forgotten more than half my life so far.

I understand where you're coming from, and I used to think similarly. A part of it, for me, was shame. I didn't want anyone to know that I was trans because it was something that I was taught to be ashamed of. Being trans was supposed to be disgusting, and people were supposed to hate and cast out trans people. The other part was how I was repulsed by myself... I hated how I looked, sounded, and dressed, and I imagined that remembering being male, when I was transitioned, would be unpleasant.

And it might have been. I learned to not be ashamed of being trans, and while there are people that will, inevitably, be repulsed by the fact... these people are not, in my experience, great in number. Furthermore, that number decreases with every year, as society modernizes and evolves. However, even if everyone (hypothetically) hated my guts for wanting to transition, it wouldn't be shameful because it's something that I'm doing in order to be true to myself. What would be shameful is continuing to live as male because that's what everyone else wanted me to do.

As for the other part... remembering my life as a male is not as uncomfortable as I imagined it might be. It was a necessary part of my life, and I changed myself as soon as I was able to. My life prior to transition isn't something that I'm ashamed of, because it is a testament to my perseverance, willpower, and courage. It might have been uncomfortable to be where I was, but to try to forget it all would be a great loss.


You can do however you like, but to forget one's past is to deprive oneself of many valuable lessons and experiences, and to run away from friends and family to facilitate forgetting one's past deprives one of more of the same.

If you learn to be comfortable with your life prior to transition, it is likely that you will regret alienating friends and family. Even if you can't become comfortable with your past, running away from it can make life significantly more lonely, and additionally cause some noteworthy emotional discomfort in the likely scenario that you can't forget about it as you may enter a state of denial.

Attempting to come to terms with having been the 'wrong' sex, and then accepting it as a necessary and not entirely negative part of your life, is the more efficient course of action as it is less likely to cause unhappiness in the long term. At least, that is my very subjective opinion based on my experiences and reading.

It's up to you, in the end. I just hope that you will expand your perspective and make the most informed decision possible, and I hope that this thread can help with that. It's a true treasure trove of perspective-expanding experience. Enjoy it.

Quote from: kelly_aus on December 17, 2012, 12:43:58 AM


Believe it or not, I once had a similar attitude about things as you seem to.. Turns out I simply was not giving my friends and family the credit they deserve. So how did I get from there to where I am now? The realisation that I was never a man - and most of the world knew it, at least on a sub-conscious level. I have always been who I am now.. I'm just a happier version of who I've always been - which has made things for family and friends much easier. I also realised that transition was not something I would go through entirely alone.. My friends and family would, after a fashion, all transition along with me.

That's so true. I've been hiding all this years thinking that nobody would accept it or understand me. Finally I realized that it was me the one who wasn't accepting it. if you want others accepting you, you must work on your self acceptance first.

Even my grandma who is very old fashioned is ok with me. So give people some credit.

Muuu, I've read a few of your posts and I really have to say, I think you may be looking at your life through a pretty distorted lens. Right now these issues probably seem huge and almost insurmountable but the reality is, in day to day life pretty much noone actually cares if you're trans. Your friends and family won't care either. They'll simply carry on loving you becaus that's what friends and family do. If they don't do that, then they're not really friends or family. This idea you have of running away to transition only to reveal yourself to them after you're "finished" just strikes me as strange. If you're not already, I suggest you get some help from a good councilor. Someone who can help you work through this negativity you're poisoning your thoughts with. Its not easy to overcome serious depression but it is totally possible to do so, and to get yourself in a place that you're happy in your own skin, whatever shape that may be. 

Quote from: muuu on December 16, 2012, 11:42:32 PM

Mmh... Ok, drug addict might not have been the best example... just tried to think of something that could have a huge negative impact on your life.
Just change the example to somebody who's been abused/raped, nothing that should be remembered. Sure it's a bit different from being trans, but both are simply painful and yields nothing to keep.

Please try to understand a number of the fine guy and gals in here have been through all three. Give them far more credit for the wisdom they have gained,many have had to go it alone and every single one of them can tell you it is one hell of a road go down. Especially when you feel like no ones gives a rats behind about you. It's easier to walk those paths even if they do not understand,when someone is there to listen to you,walk with you,talk with you and give you a helping hand up when you stumble.

See for some of us we see that you have already won part of the battle,we see that your family already cares and wants you around,we see that it can be an asset. It may not seem so now,and it may seem very hard for you to accept that,but that same family you are willing to walk away from may be the very family that can help you through this.

Quote from: muuu on December 16, 2012, 01:15:03 PM
The way they treat you is completely wrong, and they should realize how evil and rotten they really are. - and yes, don't protect them from that... I'm not going to take that back.

I am just going to ignore this thread from here on.

But I will make a few things clear, my parents have always been there for me - although they have difficulty accepting me, they have paid for my education, took care of me when I was sick and carried me to the hospital several times - I owe them my life - it's as simple as that - I would be nowhere and nothing without them. And given that the country I am in treats transpersons horribly - things could have been a lot worse - I could have been forced into begging or prostitution or worse, if it were not for them. Yes, their methods may have bodered on cruel and ruthless at times, but they did what they had to, they starved themselves and made sacrifices for my brother and me so that we could have a decent future. I owe them everything.
I only hope that their sacrifice was worth it.

So I am going to ask this once, do not judge someone without knowing their complete story, and I am not going to give up on them.

Also as for the example about being raped/abused. There are a few gals and guys out here who were actually raped, I would let them speak for themselves when it comes to such examples.
And for the record, I have at various times in my life, been sexually harassed, molested and abused - I do not think it something we should completely forget but instead learn from - find courage and face our tormentors. Only then can we truly forget about such things happening to us.

.

Don't think for a second that nobody else on here has the problems that you have. If I listed all the stuff that happened to me as I was growing up, it would probably end up on My Life is a Lifetime movie. I've been in therapy for decades over the abuse and what it all boils down to is self acceptance. The more I accept myself, the less control they have over me. Nobody deserves anything in this life without working for it. Your business is whether you accept yourself or not, not whether someone else does or would. Until you learn to accept yourself, faults and all, you're just going to continue making mountains out of mole hills.

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There's a difference between supporting someone and indulging them in their feelings of self loathing. Most people are disagreeing with you, people who have lived through what you're going through, people who have first hand experience of the kind of things you're just imagining. Maybe you could listen, or maybe you an stay in your imaginary world where being transsexual is the worst thing imaginable. Seriously, it's a first world problem sweetheart. Get some perspective. Some people have real problems.

Quote from: muuu on December 17, 2012, 04:04:14 PM
Why don't you share your issues then? Isn't that the whole point of a support network?
Write about whatever you're going trough, have others who can relate, tell how they got trough it or dealt with it... Or just agreeing with the problem.
Although, I might have misunderstood what this place aims to be... Maybe it's just supposed to be a community for trans people? If that's so, then I'm kinda out of place, sorry for that.

The point of a support network is to offer support and hope. To show you that the world doesn't have to come crashing down around you. To provide you with the tools to succeed in this particular journey. My history is what I go through with my therapist. The world does not need to participate in that. She helps me to get past it and learn self acceptance, which I still don't fully have. Reliving the past doesn't help anybody grow to like themselves and it brings everybody around them down too. The only way to achieve self acceptance is move forward into the future. Learn from the past, but don't dwell on it.