One need only look at history and realize that the Roman Catholic Church has a rather checkered past having appointed the sons of Kings and Princes as Popes with no spiritual understanding whatsoever, but more as a political appointment. Many having been entertained by a number of female consorts, even some who fronted armies. Then we have Benedict a former WWII Nazi, what would anyone expect from the man considering a high probability that his past beliefs have to be ingrained in his thought processes. After all didn't the Nazis send a lot of queer folk up the chimneys along with millions of Jews, Christians and others who didn't fit the third Reich's plan for a master race?

Quote from: agfrommd on December 25, 2012, 06:30:00 AM
Except the old men at the store don't have a billion people listening to their words and deciding whom they will vote for and whom they will harrass/desenfranchise/ostracize based on what they say.

I live in a state with a lot of Catholic people. We've been fighting for a transgender rights bill. That just another man could very well have set back that effort considerably.

Remember that the Inquisition, the witch hunts, the crusades, and other persecutions and genocides were initiated, encouraged, and sponsor by Popes.

So, yeah, the fact that this man has decided that we are the "enemy" is a matter of great concern.

Quote from: Hippolover25 on December 25, 2012, 09:24:19 AM
I'm going to defend the Pope, because I'm Catholic and it is my responsibility to do such. I can guarantee that the words in this article are being misquoted and taken out of context. They were reported by the media and that is what the media does, take things out of context, only report the parts they want, make stuff up. I found the article to be distasteful and the tone to be nonacademic and offputting.

Even if the Pope said these things, I support him. Everyone has a right to their own views on humanity. Let him take his view, me take mine, and you take yours. That's what being human is about, having different views that will one day form a whole picture.

@Hippolover25 - Am sorry but as another Catholic - if that's what I still am if the report on the Pope's comments are blown out of proportion or made up.
But here's something I can't agree on - I don't want to defend a man who goes against the teachings of Christ in the Bible to involve his own personal bias in religious propaganda - I have seen priest openly denouncing that being gay is wrong while I was a kid. Now as an adult I have a strong suspicion that I am gonna see more of it. If I were to defend his comments here then I am no better that him. But I am a transgender woman and I would not be able to answer my own conscience if I support someone who denounces others like me.

The kind of response that the Pope is looking for is extremely similar to the one that Germany & Austria gave to the Nazis. Which is just plain scary to me. And if it is then it's all the more reason for me to not agree with him.

Also if he were just another man it would not make any difference. But he is the leader of the religious sect that we belong to. He represents the Catholic community as well as serves as figurehead to guide the church and it's followers. That is the true purpose of the Pope. And even though I don't want to judge him and his views - I can't help but find it inappropriate and irresponsible of him to make such comments. If it was blown out of proportion then how can we explain that he has made similar comments twice.

After a years of dealing with the thought that being gay or bisexual or transgender or queer is wrong drilled into my head and well as a lot of kids who I know. I found these comments so disturbing that I choose to not go to church on a day that I've always gone to church each year.

Quote from: Hippolover25 on December 25, 2012, 09:24:19 AM
Acts 5:39 But if it be of God, you cannot overthrow it, lest perhaps you be found even to fight against God.

John
{8:4} And they said to him: " Teacher, this woman was just now caught in adultery. {8:5} And in the law, Moses commanded us to stone such a one. Therefore, what do you say?" {8:6} But they were saying this to test him, so that they might be able to accuse him. Then Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the earth.
{8:7} And then, when they persevered in questioning him, he stood upright and said to them, "Let whoever is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her."

I don't want to judge him and his comments - so I am gonna just ignore him from here on and hope and pray that his successor is better.
But what do I do if I am provoked?

wow - didn't even notice that this was my 500th post

Quote from: Alexia6 on December 25, 2012, 11:25:15 AM
I don't want to judge him and his comments - so I am gonna just ignore him from here on and hope and pray that his successor is better.
But what do I do if I am provoked?

I want everyone to know that I'm not hostile to anyone's religious beliefs or affiliations, I was a member of the Catholic Church for the first eighteen years of my life. But Alexia's question here is one that we all have to deal with at one or more times in our lives. Just as many Catholic women had to do when making conscious decisions concerning the use of contraceptives. They came to a crossroads as to whether to continue to produce children that they were unable to afford to raise or to take the course of the lesser evil of disobeying the Pope's directive on that issue. There comes a time when we have to make choices based on common sense because after all we really aren't sheep but human beings with reason and logic. I think that God would want it that way otherwise we'll all be clones.

Hey, its cool, hatred will only beget hatred, I was simply trying to stop it. No ones a fool. I am Catholic and I have faith in the Pope as a representative to God for us. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But as Milton--well Abdiel--said, "Let me serve in Heaven God ever blest, and his divine behest obey, worthiest to be obeyed" (Abdiel to Satan PL, VI 183-4).

Personally, I think this topic should be closed soon. Spreading hatred--against friend or foe--online isn't going to help anyone. 

No one's spreading hate of the Pope or Christianity. We're just saying that the Pope is wrong.

As Martin Luthor King Jr. said, hate the sin, not the sinner. 

"Love thy neighbor"--> Yeah, unless he/she is Mormon, gay, bisexual, trans, a "Muslim extremist," or an atheist. 

I sure don't hate him. I am done hating people.  I am questioning that he is following Christs teaching by promoting hatred and...  well saying the GLBT is the source of all the worlds problems. Clearly he has some agenda saying this and if you really feel his speech was taken out of context, can you provide proof that this article was wrong? I would be happy if it was!

At least the Pope cares about people in Syria, you got to give him that, he may have wrong ideas about people, but he's not heartless

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20841387

Whether or not it was taken out of context has little bearing. Our presidents have stuff taken out of context all the time, the news reports on it out of context, then it spreads through social media like wildfire out of context. It doesn't matter what was actually said at that point. What matters is what people believe and most people won't take the time to verify the authenticity of the statement. They'll assume it's true and tell all their friends. Even after it's proven false, they'll still spread the false statement to all their friends for years to come and talk about it as fact. If you have a Facebook account, you know what I'm talking about.

Quote from: Hippolover25 on December 25, 2012, 01:16:02 PM
Hey, its cool, hatred will only beget hatred, I was simply trying to stop it.

I don't hate the pope or his religion. I'm scared of them. There's a lot of them and not so many of us. If all of them decide the few of us are doing wrong by living the way we do, we could lose a lot of rights.

Quote from: Hippolover25 on December 25, 2012, 01:16:02 PM
Personally, I think this topic should be closed soon.

Members of Susan's are permitted to discuss difficult subjects. This topic is certainly of interest as the Pope expressed strong beliefs regarding the transgender community. It is also of interest to many here who are Christian and/or follow other faiths. As long as posts don't resort to personal attacks or violate TOS, there is no reason for locking this topic.

News Admin

I highly doubt that the Pope's statements were taken out of context. If they were, it would imply that he either feels neutral or pro-trans. Obviously, he would never say that since it would mean a huge loss of support.

Besides, he and many other Popes spat out hateful bigotry, and we all know that. What makes this case up for speculation?

No one has a responsibility to protect the Pope (for Pete's sake, he isn't even in the Bible). The only responsibility that we have, Christian or otherwise, is to foster equality and protection of all. People like the Pope give the good religious folks a bad name.

I'm glad that I'm an atheist. 

Apart from the fact that he was a religious bigot for a long time, I am beginning to agree with the early Ian Paisley view of the Papacy as the spawn of Satan.

Seriously though, I find it hard to take anything he says seriously, especially attempting to co-opt Jewish opinion given his involvement with the Hitler Youth.  Having discovered my own Jewish heritage it is doubly insulting.

Karen.

Kia Ora,

The Pope is old and frail in both body and mind...I say take pity on the poor sod...He's not going to get much comfort where he's going...And I don't mean the Catholic idea of heaven 

Metta Zenda

Quote from: justmeinoz on December 25, 2012, 05:32:06 PM
Apart from the fact that he was a religious bigot for a long time, I am beginning to agree with the early Ian Paisley view of the Papacy as the spawn of Satan.


Karen.

Kia Ora Sister across the ditch,

This says it all....

http://www.johnwinter.net/jw/2011/08/flip-side-of-the-coin/

Metta Zenda