Lucas Waldron
Student, University of San Francisco

Transitioning in a Misogynistic Society
Posted: 12/26/2012 1:30 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lucas-waldron/transitioning-in-a-misogynistic-society_b_2360264.html

About a year ago, when I was first starting my female-to-male transition, a male co-worker of mine said to me, "I guess men and women are just different." The context? He had just asked me, "What are you more into? Tits, ass or pussy?" I was already annoyed with him, because I get this type of question all the time from men who are both fascinated by my sexual orientation and bewildered by my gender identity, and decided just to respond with a simple, "I don't really care." Astonished that I, a female-bodied but male-identifying person, didn't spend large swaths of time pondering the relative sexiness of each part of the female body, my co-worker continued to press me for conclusive answers. He finally announced that men and women must be different, classifying me as female because I didn't seem to think about my genitalia (or other people's genitalia) as much as he considered normal.

The conversation led me to ask myself, "Are men and women really that different?" I've never felt like a woman. But maybe my female body has kept me out of the loop of this exploitive culture? Or maybe men and women are not different, and he was just an exception. This interaction, along with countless other similar interactions in my life, has stuck with me as I proceed with my medical transition. I took my seventh shot of testosterone just a few days ago, and I still don't have a way to reconcile my utter disgust with misogyny and personal commitment to feminism with my male identity. I find it hard to believe that feminism and masculinity are mutually exclusive, considering that my father, a passionate humanist, raised me, and considering that many of the men in my life break the stereotypes society assigns to heterosexual male-bodied people. However, my personal experiences leave me without a definition for masculinity and how it might be expressed outside the culture of exploitation.

The article started with a great thread: "are most FTM diametrically oppose to cis-males when it comes to sex and who women are view," but quickly dissolved out into a feminists diatribe. Pitty!

I never understood or had (despite being bath in testosterone) the male chauvinist view of sex and women, despite have been bathed in testosterone throughout my puberty and having been born in a uber chauvinistic society (South America).

I think this male chauvinistic attitude -in my opinion- goes beyond hormones and it is truly a "Y" brain phenomena. If it was not, then we would find that as a rule most FTM dudes would turn as chauvinistic as their cis counterparts while under the influence of T. But as a general rule -and I say as a general rule because I have experience a direct chauvinistic treatment from a FTM on this forum- they do not turn chauvinistic.

Is the alternative explanation, that is that the "male chauvinist phenomena" is not biological but rather a social construct a viable explanation?

Quote from: peky on December 27, 2012, 09:20:05 AM
Is the alternative explanation, that is that the "male chauvinist phenomena" is not biological but rather a social construct a viable explanation?

I think it is. I've met a great many men who are not chauvanist and quite a few that are. In my experience, Chauvanism seems less common among men raised in an environment where equality is the norm and more common among those raised in an environment where sex role stereotypes are pronounced and enforced.

Quote from: peky on December 27, 2012, 09:20:05 AM
The article started with a great thread: "are most FTM diametrically oppose to cis-males when it comes to sex and who women are view," but quickly dissolved out into a feminists diatribe. Pitty!

I never understood or had (despite being bath in testosterone) the male chauvinist view of sex and women, despite have been bathed in testosterone throughout my puberty and having been born in a uber chauvinistic society (South America).

I think this male chauvinistic attitude -in my opinion- goes beyond hormones and it is truly a "Y" brain phenomena. If it was not, then we would find that as a rule most FTM dudes would turn as chauvinistic as their cis counterparts while under the influence of T. But as a general rule -and I say as a general rule because I have experience a direct chauvinistic treatment from a FTM on this forum- they do not turn chauvinistic.

Is the alternative explanation, that is that the "male chauvinist phenomena" is not biological but rather a social construct a viable explanation?

Eh, I was 'chauvinistic' (if that means hanging at titty bars with other guys and discussing the merits of  various body parts) long before T. I think the author must have grown up in a different culture to me.

Quote from: Zythyra on December 27, 2012, 08:59:40 AM
I was already annoyed with him, because I get this type of question all the time from men who are both fascinated by my sexual orientation and bewildered by my gender identity, and decided just to respond with a simple, "I don't really care."

That's kind of my problem too. When I started questioning my orientation, I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out if I was attracted to each sex based on body parts and combined appearance. I finally came to the conclusion that it was merely emotional and I don't really care about body parts.

Quote from: Emily52736 on December 27, 2012, 03:11:06 PM

Quote from: Zythyra on December 27, 2012, 08:59:40 AM
I was already annoyed with him, because I get this type of question all the time from men who are both fascinated by my sexual orientation and bewildered by my gender identity, and decided just to respond with a simple, "I don't really care."

That's kind of my problem too. When I started questioning my orientation, I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out if I was attracted to each sex based on body parts and combined appearance. I finally came to the conclusion that it was merely emotional and I don't really care about body parts.

Which is a very female way of thinking. Now I'm bi, so I like man parts as well as female ones but I still care about those parts. I still like to look at and talk about them. It sounds as though the author took a very simple question and blew it way out of proportion. Sounds like his coworker was just asking the age old question T or A. You know is he boob man, butt man, etc. Which if he likes them all equally, he could just say that. Pretty harmless stuff.

Even though the coworker's response was a bit transphobic, I don't blame him for thinking it. He's probably never come across another guy who didn't just answer, even if it was just "I like it all!' and laughed it off.

Quote from: Fat Admin on December 27, 2012, 03:26:58 PM
That's kind of my problem too. When I started questioning my orientation, I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out if I was attracted to each sex based on body parts and combined appearance. I finally came to the conclusion that it was merely emotional and I don't really care about body parts.


Which is a very female way of thinking. Now I'm bi, so I like man parts as well as female ones but I still care about those parts. I still like to look at and talk about them. It sounds as though the author took a very simple question and blew it way out of proportion. Sounds like his coworker was just asking the age old question T or A. You know is he boob man, butt man, etc. Which if he likes them all equally, he could just say that. Pretty harmless stuff.

Even though the coworker's response was a bit transphobic, I don't blame him for thinking it. He's probably never come across another guy who didn't just answer, even if it was just "I like it all!' and laughed it off.

It should be really interesting to find out what proportion of the trans man are like most of the cisboys.

We need a guy to start a poll in the FTM section (hint, hint, guy!!)

Quote from: peky on December 28, 2012, 07:15:44 PM

Quote from: Fat Admin on December 27, 2012, 03:26:58 PM
That's kind of my problem too. When I started questioning my orientation, I spent a LOT of time trying to figure out if I was attracted to each sex based on body parts and combined appearance. I finally came to the conclusion that it was merely emotional and I don't really care about body parts.


Which is a very female way of thinking. Now I'm bi, so I like man parts as well as female ones but I still care about those parts. I still like to look at and talk about them. It sounds as though the author took a very simple question and blew it way out of proportion. Sounds like his coworker was just asking the age old question T or A. You know is he boob man, butt man, etc. Which if he likes them all equally, he could just say that. Pretty harmless stuff.

Even though the coworker's response was a bit transphobic, I don't blame him for thinking it. He's probably never come across another guy who didn't just answer, even if it was just "I like it all!' and laughed it off.

It should be really interesting to find out what proportion of the trans man are like most of the cisboys.

We need a guy to start a poll in the FTM section (hint, hint, guy!!)

Interesting idea. But anything a guy can do, a girl can do better. 

Quote from: Fat Admin on December 28, 2012, 07:19:10 PM
It should be really interesting to find out what proportion of the trans man are like most of the cisboys.

We need a guy to start a poll in the FTM section (hint, hint, guy!!)


Interesting idea. But anything a guy can do, a girl can do better. 

Oh, no Mr. Man, your flattery would not get you anyway. It is not ladylike to be and be nosing around the boys locker room

Someone should probably tell him that's what a lot of guys talk about with other guys. I put up with it for years.