Hey people, long time ago since I was here...

Normally I feel balanced and just good about myself. But I noticed that lately I start to feel restless. I guess I just need to get it out with people who might understand a bit what I am feeling.

I am a female androgyn, and though I don't dress very feminine I also don't dress very masculine. I just wear what I feel as comfortable. Because it is easier for a woman to dress in jeans and shirt then it is for a man to dress in skirt, no-one thinks I'm really out of my 'gender role'.
Yesterday my boss made a comment, he spoke about a woman who applied for a job and he said: "Well, she was everything you are not. She had a handbag, walked on high heels and dressed completely in pink."
This comment made me smile, and I get more comments in my job about being not the feminine stereotype.
I always like those comments. 
Just recently I have cut my hair fairly short and it feels much better this way. But, still, even though I am absolutely not the feminine stereotype, everyone who doesn't know about my gender identity sees me as a woman.
The thing is, I pretty much like the way I am, although it took me a long time, I have accepted it because if I would have the body that would truly fit my feelings I would change all the time from having a mans body to a womans body to having an in between body. I'm fluid. And that's kinda impossible 
So, I don't feel the need to alter the way I look, although I have some wishes I don't choose to go through any form of transition. Yeah, I would love to have smaller breasts, but don't want the surgery.

Anyway.... there are a few things that make me restless lately.
One of them is this:
Like I said, I don't feel so much need to alter the way I look. But my gender identity is something that is really on my foreground sometimes. That, I don't want to hide. Now, in my job, there was this young 'guy' who did voluntary work.  From the first moment I saw this person, I saw a lot of androgyn (or maybe transsexual) things in him/her. Of course people started to make comments about him/her, and that hurted me.
Now, there is a guy at my work who is gay. He came out of the closet since the beginning he worked there. I am pansexual but live together with a boyfriend for 16 years, and somehow i just shut up about my sexuality. I guess I was slightly afraid that people wouldn't take me seriously, and i didn't want to take his moment of coming out away.
Does that make sense?
A few weeks ago I did slightly mention to some colleagues that I am bisexual (the word 'pansexuality' I didn't even mention) and I think everybody was fine by that.
But.... back to the voluntary man/woman. So, people where making small jokes about 'his' femininity and the one who was making the most jokes was the guy who is gay.
Now, I start to have the feeling that I am hiding myself here. Yes, I did came up for him/her, and asked my colleague who is gay why on earth he would think about this person as abnormal.
Those jokes hurt my feelings and I also don't want this volunteer (who quit the job, for other reasons) to feel discriminated, or to feel that people are taking the piss out of him/her.
So, now he/she is gone, the subject is also out of the window. But not for me!!
For me, the subject is very much there.
For one part I feel the need to come out and tell who I am and what I am feeling. The reason for that is that I just don't want to hide this. For an other part I know that coming out as androgyn will raise a lot of confusion.

Most of my friends know I am androgyn. But, even though they accept that I feel this way, I don't really feel that they are taking me very seriously. This because like I said, I don't have the urge to alter my body or the way I look. I am masculine but also feminine. So, they just don't get it actually. They don't understand the way I feel, and they think it's just a cultural thing. The comment: "Well, everyone has a male and female side" is something I have heard plenty of times, but for me that doesn't fit my feelings.
It goes so much deeper then that for me! I feel that this is the way my brains function and also my hormones.

I feel that people who identify as the gender they are born with don't get the way I feel. By the way, I also feel like a strange fish among transsexuals. Hmm, I feel out of place with straights and gays as well.  And at the same time there is a connection with them all.      (somehow this is funny and not funny at the same time...)

Right, long story, anyway like i said in the beginning normally I feel very fine about myself. I feel very complete with my gender identity. I love being man and woman, and neither.
But now the feeling that I am hiding myself at my work bothers me. Ok, the subject is no longer there as this guy/girl is not there anymore. Still, I feel that I am hiding. But I don't want to get all the confusion over me, and strange looks, etcetera.

Ah yeah one last example: the guy who is gay (can you still follow me?  ) has been ill recently but still came to work. I kinda (just normally) like him and I think the feeling is mutual. Yesterday I gave him this video, a great gay movie 'Head On'. he read the cover and gave me a strange look. Yeah, in his eyes I am a woman and he doesn't even know that I am bisexual (let alone pansexual!) , so he might wonder why on earth I am interested in movies like that. That made me feel weird. If only he knew that i am a writer of stories and many of them are sexual stories about gay men hahaha... I guess he would really find that strange!

Soooo.......... *sigh*..... what the hell shall I do.... steer things up and tell them about my gender identity, create a lot of confusion outside and possibly inside myself or shall I just shut up and let it go??

If you came this far in my story, then thanks so much for reading!! I just needed to get this out I guess. 

I want to respond to this, it's an interesting social dilemma but am currently covered in industrial soap. Will have a shower and think of something.

Lol....thanks 

Quote from: Sangre y Leche on June 01, 2007, 03:47:39 AM
I am a female androgyn, and though I don't dress very feminine I also don't dress very masculine. I just wear what I feel as comfortable. Because it is easier for a woman to dress in jeans and shirt then it is for a man to dress in skirt, no-one thinks I'm really out of my 'gender role'.

Hi Sangre y Leche!
We sound very similar. Though I'm married to another woman, so people just see me as a mildly butch dyke.

Quote from: Sangre y Leche on June 01, 2007, 03:47:39 AM
So, people where making small jokes about 'his' femininity and the one who was making the most jokes was the guy who is gay.
...
I kinda (just normally) like him and I think the feeling is mutual.

So do you think you two could ever talk openly with each other? Or is it a "just work only" sort of friendship?

-- Sue

Well to start off with, I feel how you feel...

Quote from: Sangre y Leche on June 01, 2007, 03:47:39 AM

I feel that people who identify as the gender they are born with don't get the way I feel. By the way, I also feel like a strange fish among transsexuals. Hmm, I feel out of place with straights and gays as well.  And at the same time there is a connection with them all.      (somehow this is funny and not funny at the same time...)

That is very much me. Also, I don't dress all that androgynous. I would like to physically express my girly side in clothes a bit more, but the hassle is not worth it until I live on my own.

I think that going around and saying, 'I feel androgynous' is not all that useful.

(more later, damn dinner cooking).

Thanks Sue and Pica Pica!
Sue, the guy is just a work-only kind of friendship..

I am very happy that I find people here who recognize my feelings, and that I came here to share my thoughts! This is already a relieve 

Sorry, about splitting poor half digested thoughts inbetween courses.

Anyway, I don't think you should say to people about your androgyny because as you said, there are few people in the trans world who understand what it means, try explaining it to people who have never had to think of such things.

That doesn't mean you have to hide yourself. If things pop up and you disagree with them, you can still stand up for what you believe in. You just don't need to bring in the androgyn thing.

And also, it don't sound like you are hiding at all, judging by the comments you are reporting.

Not a lot of thoughts to be honest, but they took a long time to come out.

Hey Sangre y Leche

Glad to see you back...it's been a while.

Sounds like you have run into some of the things I have when discussing being an Androgyne.  I have found it to be difficult to explain to other people (the few I have tried, anyway).  People can understand if you gay, bi- or even transsexual...they may not like it, but they can understand what you are talking about...but it gets difficult to explain that you aren't male or female.  The comment "Everyone has a male and female side" is where I lose them too.  Yes it's true, but for androgynes, we tend to have a lot more than normal of the "other" side.  Add being fluid (me too) and it confuses them even more.

Wish I had an "Explaining Androgyny" kit to share with my friends...it would be so much easier.

As far as feeling like you are hiding yourself at work...not a lot of help I can give there.  I keep a pretty low profile regarding my gender and sexuality, though my longer buffed-till-they-are-shiny fingernails and the plucked eyebrows do raise some questions.  While they can't fire me specifically for being Transgendered, it doesn't take much to add my name to the list during the next layoff.  Only you know how much you can express yourself without placing your job in jeopardy.  If that is not an issue for you, then all I can offer is to follow your intuition. 

Nearly all of us in the Trans world have spent a large part of our lives hiding who we are...from others, and from ourselves.  I would never advise you to hide who you are.  Just be yourself, and if questions come up, deal with them.  I would, however, caution you about making announcements at work, as it places the focus on WHAT you are instead of WHO you are. 

Then again, what do I know?  I'm just this weirdo on the internet who believes they are both male and female.   

.......Laurie

They only say 'never trust a strange man', but never a strange man/woman/other person.

Guess that makes me trustworthy, eh?  Alas, it doesn't help with the "strange" part

......Laurie

I saw someone in your t-shirt the other day. It seemed very strange to realise that a t-shirt made me think of someone I found on the internet.

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 01, 2007, 05:20:16 PM
I saw someone in your t-shirt the other day. It seemed very strange to realise that a t-shirt made me think of someone I found on the internet.

Well, ain't you just the sweetest thang?  A charming devil like you gives the girl in me the vapors just thinking about it.  My. My. 

....Laurie

Quote from: LaurieO on June 01, 2007, 05:03:07 PM

Glad to see you back...it's been a while.

Thanks !

Quote from: LaurieO on June 01, 2007, 05:03:07 PM
Sounds like you have run into some of the things I have when discussing being an Androgyne.  I have found it to be difficult to explain to other people (the few I have tried, anyway).  People can understand if you gay, bi- or even transsexual...they may not like it, but they can understand what you are talking about...but it gets difficult to explain that you aren't male or female.  The comment "Everyone has a male and female side" is where I lose them too.  Yes it's true, but for androgynes, we tend to have a lot more than normal of the "other" side.  Add being fluid (me too) and it confuses them even more.

Yes, this is exactly what I mean! Ah, I'm so glad that I came back here 


I have been thinking and I agree with both of your posts, LaurieO and Pica Pica.
I think I already felt that but needed some more thoughts to it. Like  I said, most people around me know how I feel, I even got a myspace account that makes it a bit more clear. Sometimes I add people who don't know about this, but if they read the whole thing they will.  So in that way, I am definitely not hiding.
And even if they don't know about this at my job, I have the feeling that I can be myself there. People do accept me for who I am.
A funny thing is that my boss, when talking about the woman in pink and that she was everything I was not, he told me that he found out that in my contract it said that I was a man instead of a woman. He said: "Wel, let's change that."
I sort of grinned at him and said that I am fine by it this way, so I don't care if he is gonna change it or not. I joked around it and he kinda smiled and said: "well, ok" So, no strange faces there.

Anyway, I feel better. I notice with myself that, being fluid, when I get more to my female side i also get a bit more dramaqueen in me. And guess what, someone's got a period right now....  (bloody hormones!!  )  (sorry if I make some people here jealous haha) so that might make me a bit more unbalanced. I always feel the best when I am in my center, or slightly more to the masculine side.
An other thing is that I do get tired sometimes about the world not acknowledging this. It's like you say LaurieO, being gay, bi or transsexual raises less eyebrows and questions then being androgyn. I know that many in the LGBT community will disagree with this, but it really is even more strange to people.
So, sometimes I am just struggling about this, because I do not want to shut up. Not only because sometimes I would like to get some more acknowledgment, but actually very much for those on this planet who go through the confusion you can go through being androgyn.

So again, thank you both! It was helpful to me to be able to share this and get some reflections on it. 

I find my masculine side draws me into myself too much.

Quote from: Sangre y Leche on June 01, 2007, 03:47:39 AM
I am a female androgyn, and though I don't dress very feminine I also don't dress very masculine. I just wear what I feel as comfortable. Because it is easier for a woman to dress in jeans and shirt then it is for a man to dress in skirt, no-one thinks I'm really out of my 'gender role'.

Same here! 

Quote from: Pica Pica on June 02, 2007, 03:35:49 AM
I find my masculine side draws me into myself too much.

Ooooo.... interesting. My genderishness doesn't have sides. It feels more like a sphere.

-Emerald 

a more accurate one for me is pulsating blob, but the pulsating blob element that is more masculine is for shy and insular.

My masculine side is everything but shy 

Quote from: Emerald on June 02, 2007, 04:27:07 AM

Quote from: Sangre y Leche on June 01, 2007, 03:47:39 AM
I am a female androgyn, and though I don't dress very feminine I also don't dress very masculine. I just wear what I feel as comfortable. Because it is easier for a woman to dress in jeans and shirt then it is for a man to dress in skirt, no-one thinks I'm really out of my 'gender role'.

Same here! 

 

Shyness is one of those traits that is generally labeled as a feminine trait on tests such as the Bem scale.  This does not mean that all women are shy and all men are extroverts.  The typical male generally is regarded as independent.  Women who are not afraid to make their own decisions are often perceived as breaking the gender rules; similarly, men who are deferential and socially timid are also breaking gender roles.

While that may have been the case traditionally, now, I don't think there's much difference between male and female in extravertness these days.

I think many of those scales are way outdated and don't fully reflect current cultural norms if any at all can be applied to a group of women at large (a position I don't agree with).

Hmm, that's kinda goofy. I would say that shyness in men often gets interprated as aloofness and that shy men quickly learn to express their shyness in a way that confirms this gender-acceptable view of it. Shyness in women is bashfulness and modesty, likewise acceptable. A woman who expresses shyness with aescetic reserve is being a chilly bitch, a man who expresses shyness with demure diffidence is a sissy. But I'd say that feminine and masculine people both have this trait in equal numbers.