I've struggled with Religion for as long as I can remember. I was raised in a very strict Southern Baptist home where it was demanded that I attended church four times a week (twice Sunday,Wednesday night,Friday youth group). I attended Christian Summer Camp and at one point I wanted to be a missionary.

As I grew up I developed a interest in studying Theology. I probably know more about different faiths than those who practice them. I've always been analytical and I think that may have been to my detriment. It's hard to believe in a God when the evidence points to the fact that there isn't one. The evidence concludes that despite wishful thinking, hopes, and prayers the sad fact is we are alone.

I desperately want to believe in God. I've tried multiple times to have faith without reasoning. I love the idea of Jesus Christ. I love the stories and to think that God himself came down to die for mankind's salvation is comforting. Being comforting doesn't make it true though.

Anyone else struggle with faith?

Take a look at Reform Judaism

Quote from: Simon on December 26, 2012, 09:12:14 PM
I've struggled with Religion for as long as I can remember. I was raised in a very strict Southern Baptist home where it was demanded that I attended church four times a week (twice Sunday,Wednesday night,Friday youth group). I attended Christian Summer Camp and at one point I wanted to be a missionary.

As I grew up I developed a interest in studying Theology. I probably know more about different faiths than those who practice them. I've always been analytical and I think that may have been to my detriment. It's hard to believe in a God when the evidence points to the fact that there isn't one. The evidence concludes that despite wishful thinking, hopes, and prayers the sad fact is we are alone.

I desperately want to believe in God. I've tried multiple times to have faith without reasoning. I love the idea of Jesus Christ. I love the stories and to think that God himself came down to die for mankind's salvation is comforting. Being comforting doesn't make it true though.

Anyone else struggle with faith?

Kia Ora Simon,

  "Thought and faith don't mix well" But some religious members here have found a way to blend them, so it would seem.

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Simon on December 26, 2012, 09:12:14 PM
The evidence concludes that despite wishful thinking, hopes, and prayers the sad fact is we are alone.

You don't provide your evidence fro there being no god, but if I may respectfully suggest, being a 'We' does kinda suggest we are not quite alone.

I have found myself struggling with my faith, oh yes. When horrible things happen to me, when people tell me my spirit does not exist past the 100 or so years i get to live, or that i have no spirit. But Jesus never said it would be easy, I can't give up on an afterlife and helping to steer people away from evil. I am no Mother Teresa, but I have to do my best.

I would spend this time talking with God directly somewhere quiet and in nature. You may be surprised at what you hear.

I sense you have a good heart Simon, don't give up.

I lost mine a while back and consider myself agnostic.
I grew up catholic but have since seen the light. 

Why even Einstein was agnostic read some of his thoughts on religion if your curious.

Quote from: spacial on December 27, 2012, 05:53:59 AM
You don't provide your evidence fro there being no god, but if I may respectfully suggest, being a 'We' does kinda suggest we are not quite alone.

The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. 

If you are going to claim there is a god we cant see, you must prove it, not the other way around.

If someone comes in and says they saw a leprechaun, would you not ask them for proof? Same goes for invisible all powerful creators.

Just like innocent till proven guilty. non-existent until existence is proven.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 04, 2013, 10:40:03 PM
The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. 

Proof, we don't need no stinkin' proof - FSM for me all the way.

Watch out though for His Noodly Appendage.   



-Ani

I think the most important thing you can do on this globe is to find something and live for it. It doesn't have to be religion.

I wouldn't lose sleep over this. Just let whatever happens happen. The important thing is to find something you are passionate about....doesn't matter if it's religious or secular related.

Good luck!

Simon buddy, I went through the same thing. Though I'm not sure I was as 'into it' as it sounds like you were - youth group, theology, and missionary stuff and all. Though I once dreamed about being a missionary too at one point. Or was that a rebel? well, there were definitely missionary like elements to it.
And damn, you had to attend church 4 times a week? 4 times? I would have died (especially since I was forced into a little frilly dress for it). Luckily for me, I got by with only 2 + the various church functions or whatever.

Anyway, I was just thinking about this the other day. I had been going through my old blog here and deleted an old thread on religion because it was no longer applicable.

My parents are first-generation believers more or less. They actively chose this as young people. I believe it makes a huge difference between something you are indoctrinated into and a personal choice. I don't actively believe but for my folks, I liken this to a passion. My mother gets something out of praying and praising the lord. My dad gets something out of preaching. There are so many needs and desires that religion serves - the need for community, for meditation, self-reflection, a sense of belonging, hope, comfort, personal values, and various cultural functions. I think for many people, it gives them a reason and support to change for the better.

I think religion can be a very good thing for those who chose it and are enjoying the practice.

I really, really like the idea of Jesus too. I think I clung to Christianity for two main reasons. For one, the whole 'Big Bang and Chimps' theory seemed wholely unpalatable and unromantic to me. The whole idea of some poor carpenter suffering on a cross just for me is cinematic to say the least. So are the big, beautiful historic churchs involved. I always wished our family was Catholic for that reason. Going to confess to some ancient priest hidden behind a door - that sounds kinda hot. (I mean absolutely no offense to any Catholics, but to an outsider it sounds awesome.) And declaring myself a horrible, wretched, undeserving sinner saved by the blood of a crucified god? Sign me up! Really, when you think about it, these concepts are pretty hot. (Hey, Madonna thinks so too.)

I also believe I clung to Christianity because of the promise of seeing loved ones again. I mean dying and instantly being gathered up to some beautiful paradise to reunite with departed loved ones? Who wouldn't like that idea?

It sounds like a cop-out, but I now believe in the power of the human mind, nature, and little else. I still believe there is an order to all this of which we haven't discovered.
I do occasionally pray though, especially with my mother. I don't know why, but I do believe closing your eyes and wishing the best for someone does help. If not, it can't hurt.

Perfect song, sorry! 


I for one never thought religion was necessary all of that time you spend in church to become a "better person." Is time you can actually spend becoming a better person. Besides, church is boring. I never stayed awake when my parents took me there. 

Quote from: Fat Admin on January 04, 2013, 11:42:02 PM
Going to confess to some ancient priest hidden behind a door - that sounds kinda hot. (I mean absolutely no offense to any Catholics, but to an outsider it sounds awesome.)

Being one of those whose parents are believers, and me being the indoctrinated, as a first or second grade kid I didn't appreciate at all having to confess once a week my "sins" to the man in the box:

"Bless me Father for I have sinned.  Since my last confession, I have tried on my mother's bra and panties three times and had impure thoughts about wearing one of the Sisters habits." 

(Wonder what would have happened if the good Father ever heard a confession like that!)

A few Hail Mary's and Our Father's later we're absolved and good to go!

Didn't work for me. 

-Ani

QuoteBesides, church is boring.

I dunno some churches are pretty jazzy and soulful, it all depends on where you go.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on January 05, 2013, 12:18:45 AM
I dunno some churches are pretty jazzy and soulful, it all depends on where you go.

Well, those churches are fun, I guess. Everybody singing, dancing, and holy ghostin'. However, the one my parents took me to was so... 

The last church I regularly attended was a non denominational "Mega" church in the area and I was baptized there. Being trans got in the way yet again as to be baptized you have to wear a robe with nothing underneath. I wore my binder and boxers but the whole time I wasn't thinking about what I should have been thinking of. All I could think was "will the pastor feel my binder as he lifts me back up". Kinda ruined the whole experience.

I really think a big issue I have is never feeling like I belong anywhere. Almost like I am constantly watching my every move in a church and feeling like I am hiding something. Like I am a sham in the faith because unless you're going to a church with an open door policy then being trans wouldn't be welcome if they knew. I know if these people who like me now knew then they wouldn't want anything to do with me. It is hurtful and tends to keep me at arms length with anyone...religious or not.

To elaborate a bit, I did leave the Christian faith for many years after I left home and practiced many other faiths but always went back to Christ. I don't really know why that is. I do love the idea of Christ. I love the feeling of security that being a Christian gives me. You know I think a lot of my theological studies have been due to my illness. When you're sick the afterlife and the what if's become a lot more important than they were previously.

Logical me says "where is the proof".

Emotional me says "I really want it to be true".

i dont know if this will mean a lot for you and I certainly do not want you to feel as if I am pressuring you, but I am part of the United Church of Christ. We have quite a few transgender pastors.

Here is one of them:



That's Malcolm.

Here is me prepping for Easter last year:



Both of our conferences know we are transgender and we were accepted as clergy without hesitation of our gender identity. Laity...you all have it better.

So trust me...there are a lot of churches who will accept you no matter who you are and no matter what questions you have and no matter what you believe

Quote from: Simon on January 05, 2013, 03:27:22 AM
You know I think a lot of my theological studies have been due to my illness. When you're sick the afterlife and the what if's become a lot more important than they were previously.

That makes sense. I can't even imagine what it must be like to face mortality like that. Of course you're going to be preoocupied with all kinds of heavy, meaning of life issues.

QuoteI love the feeling of security that being a Christian gives me.

Since you're having a difficult time believing, I wonder if there could be something else that could give you the same security. Would you be open to something new?

Like I said in my earlier post, regardless of beliefs, I do still think church serves some very important functions and human needs. I hope you find one where you're comfortable.
And I really hope you find that comfort and security you need, I really do.

Quote from: Annah on January 05, 2013, 03:40:59 AM
i dont know if this will mean a lot for you and I certainly do not want you to feel as if I am pressuring you, but I am part of the United Church of Christ. We have quite a few transgender pastors.

Thank you for sharing that. I will have to see what the UCC here believes. That is one of the few Church's I have never attended but I have heard the feelings they have on LGBT issues varies by location. Here in the South we have Metropolitan Community Churches. I went to one a few times but didn't like the "feel" of it. Not that there was anything wrong with it...it was too short for me. Almost like getting dressed and going took longer than the actual service, lol.

Quote from: Fat Admin on January 05, 2013, 03:55:08 AM
That makes sense. I can't even imagine what it must be like to face mortality like that. Of course you're going to be preoocupied with all kinds of heavy, meaning of life issues.

Oh yeah, there was a time when I didn't know if I would be alive right now. Before they found what illness I have they were going to remove both of my kidneys. In 2007 all of this started with my illness and everything fell apart. Mainly due to multiple surgeries. The hysto I just had should be my last one for awhile. The joy of getting it done was over shadowed by the risk of the tumor being cancerous. Thank God it was benign. Now I can breathe easy for a little while. I have brain and spinal cord tumors that are currently stable and have been for 4 years. I have cancer in my right kidney but it is being stable and is small (1.1 cm and they won't do anything about it until it is 3.0 cm). I have a surgeon writing me a letter saying I can have my top surgery. We're saving up but it might be the end of next year until I can afford it. Still it'll be so awesome to have it and know the next time I go under the knife for something due to my illness I won't feel like a freak as much. The doctors always marvel how quick I get out of bed after surgery. It's so I can get a binder on and feel normal.

I don't really think about dying now. Now I'm stuck at a crossroads of what to do next. I thought about dying for so long that I forgot how to live. I am numb. I like to joke around with people because that is the only way I know how to relate. I care about people but I don't understand how to relate to anyone. Every friend I had quit coming around after I first got sick. Then the phone calls stopped. I think everyone thought I was going to die so they separated themselves from me...but here I am still alive and healthier than when I started out. Just a lot more alone.

"Every friend I had quit coming around after I first got sick. Then the phone calls stopped. I think everyone thought I was going to die so they separated themselves from me...but here I am still alive and healthier than when I started out. Just a lot more alone."

No you are not, you now have people who love you and appreciate you.

I have said before and no doubt will in the future state that I have no gods.

My life is in my hands and I take that responsibility. There is no entity to look after me.

I watched a child die on Boxing day. His parents prayed. I used my skills, they were not enough. I lost, nature won.

If there was a god I would strangle the bastard.

My apologies to those who believe

Cindy

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on January 04, 2013, 10:40:03 PM
The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. 

If you are going to claim there is a god we cant see, you must prove it, not the other way around.

If someone comes in and says they saw a leprechaun, would you not ask them for proof? Same goes for invisible all powerful creators.

Just like innocent till proven guilty. non-existent until existence is proven.

Yes, I appreciate your point.

I was attempting to demonstrate that sicne it is we talking together, we cannot be alone. Unless you mean 'we' as a group. Though that would also need to include all life on earth. And a denial of any life anywhere in the universe.

I was being a littel obtuse and I do apologise.

I also understand your point about burdon of proof, but if I may, I will agree, the burdon lies with the one making the claim.

Again, I'm very sorry if I came across as a little unhelpful.  I had good intentions when I wrote the point.