I started thinking about this today, because I seem to have a lot of people who always warn me about strange men. Today, I went to go for a hike, and before I left my dad said "by yourself?" me: "yes", dad: "be careful over there, look at license plates in the parking lot. That's a gay pick up stop." Yeah, like I have to worry about the gay guys.  I thought a greater concern would be me slipping on some ice and falling off a cliff. But yeah, this happens all the time from various people "look out while you're on the subway," etc like I am a five year old girl. I never hear anyone warn my brothers about strange men.

So, do people give up on warning you about men once you start transitioning and passing? I think it's just the whole "girls are weak and need protection" mentality.

Quote from: LearnedHand on January 05, 2013, 03:31:57 PM
I started thinking about this today, because I seem to have a lot of people who always warn me about strange men. Today, I went to go for a hike, and before I left my dad said "by yourself?" me: "yes", dad: "be careful over there, look at license plates in the parking lot. That's a gay pick up stop." Yeah, like I have to worry about the gay guys.  I thought a greater concern would be me slipping on some ice and falling off a cliff. But yeah, this happens all the time from various people "look out while you're on the subway," etc like I am a five year old girl. I never hear anyone warn my brothers about strange men.

So, do people give up on warning you about men once you start transitioning and passing? I think it's just the whole "girls are weak and need protection" mentality.

I must say I would freak if someone treated me like a child. Fair question why not tell them its annoying your a grown man you can handle life and its dangers?

None the less sorry it just sounds like they a child protecting you which isnt fair at all.

maybe in some caise but I think this isnt only about gender but also depending on the person and the area.

My mom have always protected me to the limit
my dad on the hand dont worry to much if I decide to go out in the middle of the night for no reasons.

I hear simmular people from both genders either being protected alot or allowed alot of freedom.
also in the area I live with my mom is more wellknown for crime both for guys and girls, so being a guy dosent really mean your going to be "safer" actually I heard more guys who got in fight and trouble with gangs than girls.

While crime does effect both genders, and cis males are probably warned about gangs, getting in fights, etc. it seems like people are more concerned about men attacking women than men attacking men. I could understand someone who knows you well wanting to protect you and giving you warnings based on their beliefs about your capabilities, but when people I barely know  (back when I was working 3rd shift security) say something like "wait? they let you work third shift?!?! aren't you afraid of being attacked?" kind of baffling because I am pretty sure they wouldn't question my work schedule if I was preceived as male.

Quote from: LilDevilOfPrada on January 05, 2013, 03:44:56 PM
Fair question why not tell them its annoying your a grown man you can handle life and its dangers?

With people I don't know that's easy, typical response to the 3rd shift thing: "I have a gun, I'll just shoot them." Then most likely, I never see that person again.  With people I do know, my responses just tend to get ignored, like today in response to the "gay pick up spot" thing I just said "I am not worried, I have a pointy stick." Though I am sure next time I am going some place where strange men may get the urge to attack me, I'll still get some sort of a warning.

I don't know that I'd take this personally. Anyone who knows we are trans, and who can read, is aware that we can be at greater risk of violence than most people. Especially during transition, but it probably remains a heightened risk for most of us. While I expect the concern to soften with time, I'm not actually sure that's a good thing. Personally, I would thank someone for expressing concern, and take at least some of their advice into consideration, as long as it didn't wind up putting me into self-imposed isolation or paranoia.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 05:28:04 PM
Anyone who knows we are trans, and who can read, is aware that we can be at greater risk of violence than most people.

No one knows I am trans yet.

Some people are worry warts and saying "be careful" to a loved one helps us to feel better. Maybe it's an OCD thing but I myself always tell my gf "drive safe, have a good day, love you" every single time she leaves. If one of you guys ever end up meeting me in person and coming over for a BBQ or whatever I'd tell you as you left "drive safe". I wouldn't mean it as a "you need protection" thing...just a "I'm your friend and care about your safety" thing.

I will say I noticed in one thread you talked about running alone at 3 am in Florida. I was wondering if you were crazy or just like toying with danger. You gotta learn to be careful. I'd hate to see you or anyone else on these boards become a statistic. We're not 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

Your dad just cares about you and worries. He's not trying to stifle your freedom or deny your adventurous spirit.

Quote from: LearnedHand on January 05, 2013, 05:29:55 PM
No one knows I am trans yet.

Ah, sorry for the assumption.

I kind of hate to say this, but are you completely sure of that?  Granted, if they are still seeing you as female, then that certainly would also be a reason why you'd get this kind of protectiveness. I guess I jumped to my conclusion because I'm in the middle of coping with my son's frustrations with those who don't seem to understand how hurtful it is for him to have people use female pronouns or call him by his pre-coming out name.

Actually, with my son, he's not identifying as particularly masculine or butch, and he's living in a neighborhood where he fears for his safety, particularly since there was a mugging not too long ago involving a group of mostly guys in his internship program... it's not a really comforting neighborhood where he lives (or will be living again soon, right now he's on winter break and living in my ex's comfortable suburban 2-story colonial on a quiet street in a fairly crime-free township).

Quote from: Simon on January 05, 2013, 07:28:07 PM
Some people are worry warts and saying "be careful" to a loved one helps us to feel better. Maybe it's an OCD thing but I myself always tell my gf "drive safe, have a good day, love you" every single time she leaves. If one of you guys ever end up meeting me in person and coming over for a BBQ or whatever I'd tell you as you left "drive safe". I wouldn't mean it as a "you need protection" thing...just a "I'm your friend and care about your safety" thing.

I will say I noticed in one thread you talked about running alone at 3 am in Florida. I was wondering if you were crazy or just like toying with danger. You gotta learn to be careful. I'd hate to see you or anyone else on these boards become a statistic. We're not 10 foot tall and bullet proof.

Your dad just cares about you and worries. He's not trying to stifle your freedom or deny your adventurous spirit.

Running at 3 am may sound crazy, but a lot of people did it down there where I lived. I'd always see a few people running no matter what time I was out, as well as many police officers. I was in a very well lit area, and I carried pepper spray (which I know isn't always going to stop some one). I lived right near a college that had classes 24-hours a day, there were multiple business that were open 24-hours on my route, so there was always tons of people out and walking around. It was basically like being out jogging during the day, except that it wasn't 100+ degrees. I wasn't always alone either, sometimes my husband would go the opposite way and we'd cross paths in the middle. Where I live now, I wouldn't run at 3 am even though there's less crime here, but it'd be more dangerous since there's no sidewalks or lights, and there's coyotes.

I wasn't trying to say that no warnings are needed, I just get a lot of warnings from people I don't even know who only make these just because they see me as a female. Like, does the check out person at a grocery store I don't know need to tell me to be careful in the dark parking lot and offer to walk me to my car? No. I know to be careful in dark lots, I try to park near a light, I carry pepperspray. I am just a little annoyed that even people I know give me all these warnings to be careful about men when it's stuff that I either can't get around (like my dad always saying "is the parking lot at the train station safe? are there cops?" No there's no cops, and I get off the train at a late hour, my only other choice would be to quit school or have him pick me up everyday) or is just completely ridiculous (like looking out for gay guys that I've never seen at a place I've been to hundreds of times).

Really, I think it's the whole "damsel in distress" thing, not people actually really caring, it's just "she's a girl and I need to protect her because she can't help herself". Like, my dad often tells my brothers that they can fight someone who gives them crap, but a few months ago a car started chasing me on my way home at night, followed me home, and when I tried to go in the house two kids jumps out of their car, screaming, and chases me inside, so I hit the one of the kids who reeks of alcohol, pushed him outside, and told him I'd chop his nuts off if he comes near me again. The kid apologized and left. Then, the next day, I get a huge lecture from my father about how I shouldn't hit guys because they might have a gun. Really? No one is concerned about guns with my brothers getting in fights, and what am I supposed to do, let him come inside and wait for dad or my brothers to save me? (btw there's no cell phone service where I live so calling the cops wasn't exactly an option). And, I truly think it's more likely that I am going to be attacked at my own house than somewhere else, since 3/4 of my younger siblings all have disgusting friends who have no respect for anyone.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 07:41:30 PM
Ah, sorry for the assumption.

I kind of hate to say this, but are you completely sure of that? 

I am sure, I still present as female, and I just had a guy try to flirt with me at the post office yesterday and the girls at work said I look "really pretty" with short hair.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 05, 2013, 07:41:30 PM
  Granted, if they are still seeing you as female, then that certainly would also be a reason why you'd get this kind of protectiveness.

That's the point I was after. I was just curious as if people who are FTM ever have people they know stop worrying about them getting raped/killed/kidnapped/whatever by strange men, since no one seems to be all that concerned about men attacking men. Once you get to a certain point in your transition from female to male, where everyone just sees you as male, does people that knew you once as female still get all worried about this? Am I destined to have male relatives treat me like a female in medieval Europe forever?

And I guess while we're at it, for the MTFs, do people seem to worry more about your safety once you start passing as female?

Now that my feet are injured I don't get this so much as I don't hike. But when I was hiking, I was getting all these warnings. The odds of being assaulted while hiking are actually very low, but the incidents are very publicized.

--Jay

Quote from: LearnedHand on January 05, 2013, 09:22:34 PMThat's the point I was after. I was just curious as if people who are FTM ever have people they know stop worrying about them getting raped/killed/kidnapped/whatever by strange men, since no one seems to be all that concerned about men attacking men. Once you get to a certain point in your transition from female to male, where everyone just sees you as male, does people that knew you once as female still get all worried about this? Am I destined to have male relatives treat me like a female in medieval Europe forever?

And I guess while we're at it, for the MTFs, do people seem to worry more about your safety once you start passing as female?

I can't really speak with authority about my son's experience yet... first, he won't begin to pass, most likely, until he's able to get top surgery, at the very least, and second, it's all girls in our family, so there's always been a bit of overprotectiveness going on with and between us all.

When I was in basic training (and granted, I was in a coed company) I got a bit of a vibe that some of the DIs were actually kind of looking to protect me. I presented about as girly as one could with a nearly shaved head and somewhat male, slightly pudgey physique, and I had test scores and training ahead that would take me pretty much out of any kind of direct "combat arms" duty, I was flatfooted and trying to cope with constant, obvious pain for most of that time, and I was actually used as an example to bully some of the female troops, by pointing out how I was continuing to cope with the pain whenever one of them would try to work any of the usual girly begging for pity stuff that's part of many women's socialization habits.

But then they would kind of wave me around some of the obstacle course hazards that required upper body strength because they were pretty sure all that would happen is that I'd lose my grip and wind up in the hospital or discharged before I could be used?

Also, recently, after coming out and presenting very femme at an event with about 100 friends, I got a lot of comments that seemed to include concern for my safety, so from a totally unscientific sample of one, I'd have to say that, yes, in at least one case, presenting (not even passing) as female in any way does tend to elicit concern  and protectiveness from at least some people. If I ever come to a point where I realistically can imagine I'm passing I'll be sure to take notes on whether the protectiveness decreases or increases.