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Just explain it

Started by av1, December 29, 2012, 04:20:32 AM

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av1

woke up with a stupid thought. :o
just explain it to me why this cant happen- :-\
during ftm transition i come to an agreement with a mtf. i give her my female parts and she her male parts to me. it means i will not be left infertile. ^-^
i know this ain't possible. why? ???
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Cindy

Your tissue and everyone's tissue carry genetic markers that allow your immune system to recognise you as you. The immune system checks these looking for changes and destroy tissue that has changes. In this way we control cancer and other diseases. When we transplant tissue, say for a kidney etc we have to match these genetic markers very very well, otherwise the kidney is destroyed by the immune system of the recipient. This can happen in minutes to hours to years. hence people are on anti-rejection drugs to prevent that.

So we can't just willy nilly transplant stuff.

I won't begin to mention the surgery that would be involved and the technical difficulties and the fact that we can still not join nerves together and we don't understand the hormone system and we don't understand the neuronal system and we are scratching the surface of the immune system.

Sadly lots of TV programs suggest we are a long way ahead of where we are.

Hugs

Cindy
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sarahbear

Your body tries to protects you from DNA that is foreign to it so implanting an organ from another person would basically be seen as an invasion and your body would reject it, make you sick. People that really need an organ transplanted to survive end up taking powerful drugs to suppress their body's defense mechanisms but even then there are usually a lot of side effects and it doesn't always work. The real hope is in the future with bioengineering but it's really only hope right now since they still have a lot of work to do. Though it would be definitely amazing to have real organs that work the same way other native organs do. *fingers crossed*
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Catherine Sarah

Quote from: sarahbear on January 04, 2013, 09:01:42 AM
The real hope is in the future with bioengineering but it's really only hope right now since they still have a lot of work to do. Though it would be definitely amazing to have real organs that work the same way other native organs do. *fingers crossed*

I'd just like to push the envelope a little further on this topic. I saw a recent television show on SBS about genetic engineering. It featured two body part manufacturing companys in the US that were doing work for the Military. Essentially creating body part for returning service personal injured in battle. Missing ears, nose, damaged livers etc, etc. The list just went on.

One company grew the parts from "clean" cells of the patient. Clean defined as cells stripped of their genetic code back to the stem cell format, then feed with a growth hormone electrolyte and left to develop into the assigned organ.

The other company grew the organ from a genetic coded paste that was fed into a 3D printer driven by a PC with the appropriate 3D image of the organ. Apparently this technique is somewhat faster than the other company's methodology.

Here is where I'd like to push the envelope. If the testes are in fact the originally genetically coded ovaries, altered by the in utero testosterone wash. Could these testes cells be "cleaned" back to their original stem cell code, a paste created and a set of ovaries "printed" with our correct genetic reference markers??

If they can create functional kidney, liver, heart organs, why couldn't functioning ovaries be possible. Nerve engineering is another of their specialities. Bridging damages sections with artificial nerve paths that successfully recouple and produce the associated nerve impulse for the correct action.

Huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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bullwinklle

That leaves me thinking one of these companies just might end up making this machine from The Fifth Element: 

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sarahbear

Realistically that seems more possible today, the fifth element machine, because we're verging into 3d printing.  Of course it's a ways off but it seems believable that we could create a machine that could do that when the technology that's in its infancy now becomes more mature and advanced.
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LizMarie

Catherine, the problem is that ovaries created by the method you suggest could result in a baby with YY chromosomes, which would likely be fatal, since the Y chromosome actually has so many fewer genes than the X.

I know a little bit about this sort of thing and what you want to accomplish is just beyond the realm of the possible but not too far. Here is what would have to be done, knowing what we know today.

1. Acquire stem cells from the patient.
2. Modify these stem cells by removing the Y chromosome and inserting a second X. Options for the second X include using your own a second time, or getting the other X from your mother or any sister or brother.
3. Once the XX stem cells are proven stable, begin to grow them as the appropriate organ structures (in this case, ovaries, fallopian tubes, uterus, cervix, etc.
4. Once the organ structure is complete, transplant it.

Now, even having done all this, which will allow a MtF to become pregnant, an MtF cannot give natural birth. There are two reasons for this, the first being the lack of flexibility in the neo-vagina, and the second, more difficult is the fused bones in the male hips which do not allow the birth passage to expand properly. I am aware of no way to reverse the bone fusion at this time which means that MtFs that become pregnant would have to give birth via C-section.

This may all sound like science fiction, but altering the contents of stem cells is already done and growing some body parts is already done. Mothers have donated ovaries to daughters via transplant. So the rest is just engineering and refinement of techniques already in existence.
The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away.



~ Cara Elizabeth
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Catherine Sarah

WOW!!!!  Thank you LizMarie,

That really puts wheels on this whole thing. It indeed does not sound like science fiction at all. I tend to believe we are closer than you think.

It would be a very interesting program to go through, if the hip displacement problem could be overcome. Obviously hormone levels would have to be maintained throughout the pregnancy, including oxytocin during labour. As this hormone vigorously promotes the vaginal displacement necessary for the delivery.

Apart from that I wouldn't care if it was a C section. Anything for a family of my own. At least there is still surrogacy and adoption still available.

Thank you once again, your input is much appreciated.

Huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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AlexD

#8
Quote from: LizMarie on January 14, 2013, 01:24:29 PM
Catherine, the problem is that ovaries created by the method you suggest could result in a baby with YY chromosomes, which would likely be fatal, since the Y chromosome actually has so many fewer genes than the X.

I'm going off-topic a bit here, but the concept of a YY embryo is interesting to me and I want to point out some interesting facts about it. It would indeed be fatal, but the fertilised egg would never even make it past the fertilised egg stage, since the X chromosome contains genes vital to cell function. This means that, all other factors aside, a hypothetical XY-ovaried transwoman would have a fertility rate 3/4th that of a biowoman, but would be twice as likely to have a boy than a girl.
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LizMarie

Yes, that's one way to look at it - 25% of all fertilizations would self-abort.

The Y chromosome is really radically incomplete compared to the X chromosome. The Y chromosome basically has just enough information to differentiate the fetus (every fetus starts out structurally female regardless of genetics) into a male via the generation of male hormones. All the other information for that pair set is in the X.
The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away.



~ Cara Elizabeth
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Catherine Sarah

Quote from: LizMarie on January 16, 2013, 04:15:11 PM
The Y chromosome is really radically incomplete compared to the X chromosome. The Y chromosome basically has just enough information to differentiate the foetus. .......  All the other information for that pair set is in the X.

It's that just so typical :laugh:  :laugh:

If it wasn't for the woman, where would men be?  Radically incomplete obviously. Good to find another tick along the way in transition.  ;D

Huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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