So, I saw this posted on FB

Quote"The wisest person
Trusts the process,
Without seeking to control..." Tao #2

I've got a mild problem with this. It would seem to suggest that for those of us in transition who seek to take control of our transition process that we are being unwise.

Thoughts?

Which process?

The maxim seems rather broad and nonsensical.

Yeah. I replied to the person who posted this, coming from the POV of somebody in the process of transition. Taking control of that process, or at least wanting greater control, doesn't seem unwise to me.

At the risk of cynicism, it sounds  rather like matchbox wisdom.

These Buddhist and Confucius notions seem to be popular among westerners. But they originate from societies that are so very different from ours.

Do you follow Tao or anything similar?

my take on the quote is that the process is life. i have heard/read that eastern cultures believe fate rules our lives, whereas in western we are told to take control of our live and that our decisions dictate our lives. sure there's some crossover in both cultures: how much is determined by fate vs chance. but i think this quote is talking about your life path/having faith in your fate.

for myself, i wanted to control my life and that was in the form of bottling up my gender issues. if i would only trust my fate, that this is what is supposed to happen in my life, perhaps i would have accepted/investigated it and began to move forward in life many years ago.

that's my 2 cents!
<3

Jill: I do follow a Soto Zen Buddhist practice, and references to the Tao/Dao are often made in chants and Dharma talks. This particular quote was posted to FB by one of the pastors at my UCC church. Whether or not she has a Taoist element to her practice, I don't know.

Jojo: I guess I have to remember that these "oriental" quotes can seem odd from an "occidental" point of view. Thanks.

That makes more sense really Constance.

Hope someone else in similar studies can guide you better than I can.

My first reaction to this quote was that it seemed really presumptuous to me. But I wasn't bearing in mind the oriental versus occidental POVs. I'll probably ask my Zen teacher about this, too.

Quote from: Constance on January 10, 2013, 09:34:31 AM
So, I saw this posted on FB
I've got a mild problem with this. It would seem to suggest that for those of us in transition who seek to take control of our transition process that we are being unwise.

Thoughts?

Kia Ora Constance,

"The wisest person
Trusts the process,
Without seeking to control..."

This reminds me of the lyric to a song by Bunny Wailer [ or was it Sly Dunbar ??] "If you can make sense out of non-sense-you will find the answer !"

Does one really have control of their transition ? Or does their obsession with transition control them ie, become the obstacle ?

At times we tend to fight against[put up strong resistance] to the things that we see as hindrances, and have a strong 'desire' to change things, which in a sense all we are doing is blocking the 'natural flow' of things. "All rivers eventually flow to the sea !"

You can use the mind to understand logic-but you can't use logic to understand the mind !


I hope this helps to loosen up the western  mind set...

"Go with the flow and enjoy where it takes you...You will eventually get to where you are meant to be !"

Metta Zenda    

I see this as saying those who are wise do not fight what is going on. By denying who we really are and fighting to follow some preconceived idea of who we are, we are just fighting against what is meant to happen. By allowing us to follow the path set before us, we are free to use our energies else where. After all, by transitioning I am not fighting my path, I am following it. Just my thoughts.

I guess part of the issue is those parts of the process that I can't control but others can. For instance, I can just say that my real name is Constance Anne McEntee all I want, but until the judge approves it I can't use that name for legal purposes. I'm following the process for the legal name and gender change, but someone else gets to control the outcome.

Quote from: Constance on January 10, 2013, 04:38:01 PM
. I'm following the process for the legal name and gender change, but someone else gets to control the outcome.

Kia Ora Constance,

But you DO have the choice of when it comes to how you are going to 'feel' about the outcome [whatever the outcome !]...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Zenda on January 10, 2013, 10:00:37 PM
Kia Ora Constance,

But you DO have the choice of when it comes to how you are going to 'feel' about the outcome [whatever the outcome !]...

Metta Zenda

I've certainly had several people try to convince me that emotional responses are indeed choices, rather than biochemical reactions in the brain.

How I feel will be how I feel. What I do with those feelings would be my choice.

Quote from: Constance on January 11, 2013, 09:59:09 AM
I've certainly had several people try to convince me that emotional responses are indeed choices, rather than biochemical reactions in the brain.

How I feel will be how I feel. What I do with those feelings would be my choice.

Kia Ora Constance,

That's what I meant, you have the choice of whether to cling to these emotions[letting them take over] or 'observe' them ie, see them for what they are [just feelings that come and go]...Remember NO-THING is permanent...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Brooke777 on January 10, 2013, 03:41:51 PM
I see this as saying those who are wise do not fight what is going on. By denying who we really are and fighting to follow some preconceived idea of who we are, we are just fighting against what is meant to happen. By allowing us to follow the path set before us, we are free to use our energies else where. After all, by transitioning I am not fighting my path, I am following it. Just my thoughts.

I agree with this sentiment entirely. the attempt to control the process would be the reaction of "how can i be trans* or what have you I am a man/woman or whatever" and then denying that trans-ness or whatever issue happens to consume our thoughts. We have to keep in mind that the active consciousness is apart of the integral process so there is a part where we have to stop sitting around being passive and take some action towards truth. So when we decide that hey my body/mind/spirit/mojo/being or whatever is some how dissonant with our truth the best (wisest) course of action would be to take steps to harmonize our lives.

One of my favorite passages in the Chuang Tzu (another Taoist classic) is a story about a group of masters who start suffering from terrible deformities and they are so happy about it. One of the masters remarks about how he hopes the Tao would let him grow a rooster on his shoulder so he would always wake up on time. When the universe reveals such evident truths, out true gender identity or sexual orientation for example, we have to celebrate that and go along the path that has been set before us, that path would be to transition towards a more truthful representation of ourselves.

hope that made sense