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Jealousy of opposite-direction transsexuals?

Started by AlexD, January 16, 2013, 08:30:50 PM

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AlexD

This is an odd question, but it's something I've noticed in myself when watching YouTube videos and photos of MtF transitions: does anyone ever feel jealousy towards transsexuals who are transitioning towards your birth gender?

When I see videos of beautiful transwomen, I feel this pang of jealousy and I'm not sure why. Am I jealous because they make more convincing women than I ever could? Am I jealous because I secretly want to be a woman? Am I jealous because I'll never have a girlfriend like them? Am I jealous because they're much better-looking than me in general? All of the above?

It's a strange thing and I'm not really sure how to feel about it. What do you think?
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suzifrommd

Well as a transwoman I'm jealous of all people born with a natural female body, since that's something I'll never experience. Of course I know most trans men would have given anything not to have been born that way, but that doesn't stop a little bit of jealousy.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Simon

Nope, I never feel jealousy when I see a beautiful transwoman. I feel something but it sure ain't jealousy.  :laugh:
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Catherine Sarah

Hi AlexD,

Great questions you've posed here. They are all really good one to ask your therapist. If anyone knows you, he/she should be doing a better job than all of us combined.

Give it a go.

Huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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Zumbagirl

Quote from: AlexD on January 16, 2013, 08:30:50 PM
Am I jealous because I secretly want to be a woman? Am I jealous because I'll never have a girlfriend like them? Am I jealous because they're much better-looking than me in general? All of the above?

It's a strange thing and I'm not really sure how to feel about it. What do you think?

I have always thought that all we really need is one of the mad scientist brain swapping machines :) it would make things a lot easier lol
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spacial

Absolutely.

Though I also feel quite, (possibly more) over Transwomen who have achieved so much more than I have or will.

Perhaps it's about turning a negative emotion into a positive, but making that envy into support and example.
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Maegan

Don't all women have a tad of in-built jealousy?  >:-)

I do at times, but then I realise that we are all individuals. What is good looking to you may not necessarily be good looking to me, and vice versa.

So, when the green monster comes for a visit, go and sit down and paint your nails or pluck your eyebrows, epilate or wax. It quickly makes you forget about your jealousy. Works for me.

Huggs

Maegan


Sometimes you find yourself in the middle of nowhere, and sometimes in the middle of nowhere, you find yourself.
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Edge

Quote from: agfrommd on January 16, 2013, 08:35:16 PM
Well as a transwoman I'm jealous of all people born with a natural female body, since that's something I'll never experience. Of course I know most trans men would have given anything not to have been born that way, but that doesn't stop a little bit of jealousy.
Me too except for male bodies.
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Anna

What Zumbagirl said. And I also wonder what on earth they thing they are doing. Why would anyone want to be a man?

There was a stunningly sweet looking young woman at my first group meeting and I just thought "This is insane. How can she not want to be her?"
A pinch of worm fat, urine of the horsefly, ah!, buttered fingers... that should do it.
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AlexD

Quote from: Simon on January 17, 2013, 02:55:03 AM
Nope, I never feel jealousy when I see a beautiful transwoman. I feel something but it sure ain't jealousy.  :laugh:

Heh. I keep telling myself I'm just attracted to them, and I'm sure that's part of it, but idk. I think I'm lamenting the fact that I'll never be a "true" girl, whatever that means, and that these women who weren't even born with the correct bodies are doing it better than I ever could, despite being born biofemale.

Thanks for the responses, everyone. It's kind of disheartening to see nobody else thinks like I do, hah, but I suppose these are the doubts of a male-leaning neutrois more than a fully-fledged FtM. :/
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Adam (birkin)

Quote from: Simon on January 17, 2013, 02:55:03 AM
Nope, I never feel jealousy when I see a beautiful transwoman. I feel something but it sure ain't jealousy.  :laugh:

This is awesome, ha. Agreed.
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Elspeth

FWIW, I've often felt jealous of FTMs. My reasons:


  • They tend to find passing much easier, once they've had top surgery and HRT, especially.
  • I've never heard an MTF report that someone they told about their transsexuality asked them, when they were going to do something about it (on the assumption that they were a woman, intending to transition to male). I hear/see this story in the reverse quite often from post-transition FTMs.
  • There's no doubt in my mind that socially speaking, it's easier to live as a man in this society. I really wish I could do that and still have any sense of integrity. It would be so much simpler.
  • I recall academic studies that noted that, while FTMs do have many of the same social maturation problems that MTFs face, they have had a better history of being accepted and admired, especially within the lesbian community. Granted, there are those in the community who are hostile to both FTMs and MTFs.
  • I greatly admire how FTMs tend to be much more practical and no-nonsense about transition. Once they make their minds up, they often just get on with it... far less of the hand-wringing and self doubt that is common to many (and hugely dysfunctional in my own life) about how I have approached things, allowing many who had no place in my life to influence and even negotiate matters surrounding an identity that, at some level, has never really been in doubt for me.

This is particularly ironic, now that I am dealing with supporting my son, emotionally, at least, through his own transition.

You'll get no argument from me that (like most of the moms I talked to when my kids were infants, toddlers and young children) dressing a girl is a lot more fun. There are a few advantages, but I also don't know any woman who really, completely is at peace with or "likes" her own body. And this is such a huge source of insecurity for many of us, no matter what we end up looking like post-transition, or in some cases even before transition.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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Anna

Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
, being trans just sucks and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Some parts of it suck. Others I wouldn't give up for anything. Sometimes I feel like it's the best part of me. I used to think it was almost spiritual. The whole reason I am putting myself through this grief of counselling is to try and be that person as much as I can. 
A pinch of worm fat, urine of the horsefly, ah!, buttered fingers... that should do it.
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Anna

BTW Elspeth you said some interesting things about doctors the other day with which I agreed. I've been meaning to reply (not with anything immensely important)  but can't find the thread. I'm not deliberately ignoring you I'm just lost on the site.
A pinch of worm fat, urine of the horsefly, ah!, buttered fingers... that should do it.
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Stephe

Quote from: girl you look fierce on January 17, 2013, 01:45:14 PM
being trans just sucks and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Sorry you feel this way. I don't think it sucks and in many ways has enriched my life. Thinking "it sucks" will just make your life suck.
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Beth Andrea

Quote from: Simon on January 17, 2013, 02:55:03 AM
Nope, I never feel jealousy when I see a beautiful transwoman. I feel something but it sure ain't jealousy.  :laugh:

LOL...yeah for me, even after 2 years in The Process...I'm like, "wtf?" And I have to convince myself each time that not everyone detests being a guy...*hugs* to my bros out there in trans-land...best wishes in your journey.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Elspeth

Quote from: Anna on January 17, 2013, 05:40:29 PM
Some parts of it suck. Others I wouldn't give up for anything. Sometimes I feel like it's the best part of me. I used to think it was almost spiritual. The whole reason I am putting myself through this grief of counselling is to try and be that person as much as I can.

The spiritual aspects are one of the main parts I cling to as almost a "calling" or sense of mission in being trans. Part of this comes, I suppose, from realistically expecting that I am unlikely to ever fully be able to ignore that which makes me different from other women. But I do find comfort and a sense of  direction, as well, by reflecting on the various "two spirit" traditions in various cultures throughout history, and the kinds of roles those like us were drawn to and revered for serving in those cultures that could not simply choose to demonize us. There's a lot in the history of how women were marginalized in Western culture in particular that I find useful and focusing when trying to come to peace with myself, and seek ways of being that are constructive and affirming, and show that we are not merely creations of a technological and "medicalized" age.

I do wish some of those who still demonize us would take some time to study those traditions in depth, and realize that we are not the threat.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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Elspeth

Quote from: Anna on January 17, 2013, 05:42:44 PM
BTW Elspeth you said some interesting things about doctors the other day with which I agreed. I've been meaning to reply (not with anything immensely important)  but can't find the thread. I'm not deliberately ignoring you I'm just lost on the site.

I tend to talk about doctors more than a little bit. My most recent post concerning them was this one?

This being a fairly active board, it is easy to lose track of threads. If that one is not the one, perhaps you could recall some other details about what you were wanting to comment on, Anna?
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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Beth Andrea

Quote from: Elspeth on January 17, 2013, 06:22:39 PM
I tend to talk about doctors more than a little bit. My most recent post concerning them was this one?

This being a fairly active board, it is easy to lose track of threads. If that one is not the one, perhaps you could recall some other details about what you were wanting to comment on, Anna?

Or, you could go to Elspeth's profile, click on "show posts", and browse until you find it.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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John Smith

I used to be jealous of trans women because they could DO that. Then I got internets and found out there were trans guys too. XD

Went and got me a ticker, so everytime I post I'm reminded to put down whatever I was about to eat. >.>
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