A post by Jeatyn in a thread in the FtM section got me to thinking. This is going to be another of my ramble-posts, and it's going to be very disjointed.

Quote from: Jeatyn on January 18, 2013, 02:16:49 PMI could see no future as a female, being an old lady seemed really wrong - I thought I was just afraid of growing old, when in actual fact I was afraid of growing old as a woman. I just took every day as it came and made no plans that were any more than a few months ahead. Growing old as a man I can totally picture, now that I can see that picture I can easily make 5 year...10 year...15 year plans because I know where I want to be heading. I'm not afraid at all, because at least I will have enjoyed the journey.

I've always been afraid of growing old, and I've never really been able to put a finger on why. I don't have any concrete long-term goals. I feel like an overgrown kid in a body that's running away from me.

I never thought that this might have something to do with my gender, but I suppose it might. I'm an adult, but I'm not a man or a woman, and in society there's not really another option. It's easier to be queer and gender-nonconforming as a youth, I feel. There's more space for weirdness when you're young. I mean, I'm still very young, but I feel that as I'm entering the realm of careers and resumes and job interviews, there's less and less room for my buzz cuts and skinny pants and all the queer nuances of my presentation that make me happy.

When one thinks of old people, one thinks of little old ladies and men. I'm not either of those (and I'm definitely not little ). I think I'm afraid I don't know how to be old, especially not in a queer way. I don't know any queer old people. There don't seem to be any non-binary seniors.

I guess this means I have to blaze my own trail, but that gets tiring and I get frustrated. I've complained in other threads about being lonely on my path, about how it seems that I'm the only one with these experiences. The thought of going my whole life like this is frightening.

How do you feel about growing old? What kind of old person are you going to be?

I have been deathly afraid of birthdays since the age of 12. I wanted to be a kid forever and not turn into a woman. I still have birthday and age hangups. I think fear of aging is closely tied to being transgender. We only get so much time in this life and we fear life will run out before we can be ourselves.

As far as genderqueer and age - I predict that nursing homes will be full of genderqueer people in about 50 years. Of course you don't know any ancient genderqueers. The word was just invented.

I think the people who are old now grew up in a very different time to me, almost a different culture, and as such many are likely to have habits and behaviours that form the current old person stereotype. It doesn't mean I have to do the same thing when I get older; I doubt it will have the same connotations by then anyway. I'd advise you to continue doing whatever makes you comfortable (with perhaps the caveat that as a body gets older, it's physically less capable).

Am I being unhelpful here...? But then, I think my grandparents are pretty cool; they're in their 80s, they go out with friends, they go dancing, walking, bowling, and take evening classes in various things, including computing. They often call me on skype

I feel a reprise coming on of the poem Warning by Jenny Joseph: "When I am an old woman I shall wear purple, With a red hat which doesn't go, and doesn't suit me" etc..

It seems funny, but it is an excellent topic! I can recall being just a kid in my teens, the gal that I'm married to and I were walking down the street when a guy drove past in his sleek Corvette. She said, "the guy looked old". I said, "I think he is old, he must be thirty". She said, "that is old, I can't imagine being that age!" We've been moving up the bar in ten year increments ever since.

Being genderqueer and finding a reasonably good paying job is really tough. I remember one of my sons told me he was going to be a rockstar. He had grown his hair down to his ass and then shaved one side of his head. We all go through these delusional stages so I can't laugh at him too much. Then he went on to tell me that he had done a kazillion job interviews all to no avail. I had to break it to him that people want to hire someone that would appear to fit well into their business model and be able to interface with their customers without alienating them. He said that they were discriminating against him and that it is against the law. I agreed and told him that yes they do that all the time and the burden is on you to prove it. Get a haircut and you'll get hired! Regardless of how you wish to present yourself, genderqueer or whatever, nothing is going to happen until you can blend. Once that happens and you get hired then you're real personality can emerge gradually and incrementally and the others will get used to it and become accepting as long as it isn't too bizarre.

Oh yeah, I'll be seventy next August though I'm really just twenty something in my mind and heart!

Ah, yes, the job thing can be a problem. I'm still confused as to how there grew up a general perception that people in suits with more conventional hairstyles must be more 'professional' and better able to do a job, but there you go.

I remember as a teen seeing my older cousin getting married at age 21, and thinking "Wow, she seems so mature and self confident, I can't wait to be like that!" I felt somewhat cheated when I reached 21 and wasn't magically self confident and certainly didn't feel like an adult.

I think I must have become more mature since then though, because I'm now perfectly happy with never ever being a growed-up.

QuoteI could see no future as a female, being an old lady seemed really wrong - I thought I was just afraid of growing old, when in actual fact I was afraid of growing old as a woman. I just took every day as it came and made no plans that were any more than a few months ahead. Growing old as a man I can totally picture, now that I can see that picture I can easily make 5 year...10 year...15 year plans because I know where I want to be heading. I'm not afraid at all, because at least I will have enjoyed the journey.

This has been a lot in my mind, too. I never was able to imagine myself as a woman, and it gets totally impossible to think I some day would be an old woman. I guess the girl-category was always sort of gender-neutral in my mind and I just recently discovered in shock that I am an adult, now. So the feeling of time running out is very familiar.

One of my main reasons to transition away from female is just that - I can't see me growing old as a female. I could see myself growing old as a male. At least that gives me a sense of calm and direction. Right now / As a female, I have only this moment, no future, no plans, nothing to wait for. I would so much like to have a future to plan and hope for.

It's a trick, an illusion, maybe even magical.

I'm now the crusty old decrepit age of a whole sixty years of agonizing oldness.
I haven't become my parents, which is such a huge disappointment,
as I always wanted to be like them when I grew up.
Oh Lord! where has my life gone? What did you do to me?
Sarcasm is an age related thing? Don't know, don't care. But there it is.

I'll try to be serious here.
Old is a concept that is taught to you. A perspective.
As some of you alluded to. The only difference is experience.
You choose what you are going to do with that.
Some use it wisely, some use it towards hatred of themselves and those around them.
Some haven't a clue that they even have some. And everything in between all that.

You live your life with a passion for who you want to be. Not what is expected of you.
Not living up to the standard uniform of business can be a challenge. Just be better than everyone else.
But that kind of uniform living is just living. You go to work and go home.
Sometimes you do stuff with friends. Maybe have children (always a good time if you do it right).
Stable Sameness. It will bore you to oldness.
When ever you find yourself doing that, living that, you're not living up to your potential.
You're living up to some expectation that is an illusion.
That is the older people you see and fear you will become.

The fear that you talk about is the fear of just living.
What you really want is a life that centers around who you want to be.
Pursue that and you forget about the years that have gone by.
You can do the easy thing, get a job that's easy and boring and pays the bills with some left over for retirement.
Or do what you have a passion for. Learn from others that share that passion.
You might think of them as old or older, but you'll find that the passion doesn't have an age barrier.
Learn what it takes to be who you want to be, be good enough to become a teacher of that.
You will find yourself surrounded by others that want to learn, that don't care how old you are.
You will never regret aging, you will enjoy that you are always becoming better at being you.
There isn't a retirement for a life like this. The day may come where your body is giving out.
But you will have had a very rich and rewarding life.
You will always have someone who wants to know what you know.
You will never be lonely, which is one of your fears about growing old, isn't it.

Your fears of aging as a gender are unfounded. Gender becomes more of a nuisance as you get older.
It may not even be relevant by the time you get to be that age you fear.
The binary world of cis has created something that it wants as a stable sameness it can lean on.
How ->-bleeped-<-ing boring is that. Be the gender you want to be, you won't be bored by it.
In fact, that is a quality of someone who isn't afraid to be a step ahead of the crowd.
It takes effort, a will that is stronger than the one you have now. It will get stronger.
So will you. Others will see that in you, and they will be less concerned about your gender, age, etc.

Just by virtue of being here, talking about Androgyn non binary gender stuff,
shows that you don't want that uniform of life that so many 'boring and old before they know it' people, have.

Like Shantel, I am no older than my twenties, I have no good reason to be otherwise.
By the time I was thirty, I had done and seen more than the average boring person would do in a lifetime.
Sure, it wasn't all fun and games, it was damn hard sometimes. Some of it,...I wish had never happened.
But that is how it goes. I'm stronger for it. And a little more compassionate than I would be otherwise.
The next thirty years has had it's ups and downs, but it is rarely boring.
I hold my head up high when I walk down the street.
Only because I know who I am and how good I am at what I do.

That is why age is a trick, an illusion.
Maybe it is magical in it's own way.
But who am I to say? I'm just some sixty year old person. 
Ativan

Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on January 19, 2013, 03:03:00 PM


I hold my head up high when I walk down the street.
Only because I know who I am and how good I am at what I do.

That is why age is a trick, an illusion.
Maybe it is magical in it's own way.
But who am I to say? I'm just some sixty year old person. 
Ativan

You are magical Ativan, what a great commentary!

I'm 63 years old and having a wonderful time.  I'm financially secure with a guaranteed income for life.  I will never have to be worried about losing my job.

Despite having a college degree I take a tuition-free college course every semester.  I take long walks when the weather is appropriate.  I go to the YMCA several times a week, taking water aerobics and using various cardio and weight machines.  I am healthier and stronger than I have ever been in my life.

I attend the symphony and opera and enjoy going to recitals.  My wife and I eat out regularly in many fine restaurants.

Although I was born male I have grown substantial breasts and am not afraid to show them.  If I ever decide I want electrolysis or genital surgery I will be able to afford it.

If I want to pass as a woman, the bar is much lower at my age.  The women look more masculine and the men look more feminine.  I don't have to look like a 25 year old beauty.  It's pretty easy for me to look like a woman that is 10 years younger than I actually am.

I've been young and I've been old.  In my opinion old is better if you have your health and are financially secure.

Randi

Age gives you the advantage/expectation of eccentricity.   

And as the baby boomers continue to enter senior years in larger numbers, I imagine the popular culture image of older people will change.  You see it already in advertizing.

I have a fear of growing old too, but it has nothing to do with gender. It has to do with having to live out my days in a nursing home or a hospital bed. I'd just assume go before I get to that point.

Quote from: Cain on January 19, 2013, 12:04:00 PM
When one thinks of old people, one thinks of little old ladies and men. I'm not either of those (and I'm definitely not little ). I think I'm afraid I don't know how to be old, especially not in a queer way. I don't know any queer old people. There don't seem to be any non-binary seniors.

I guess this means I have to blaze my own trail, but that gets tiring and I get frustrated. I've complained in other threads about being lonely on my path, about how it seems that I'm the only one with these experiences. The thought of going my whole life like this is frightening.

How do you feel about growing old? What kind of old person are you going to be?

I don't have any answer to this...but the part that I bolded felt like a need for validity and understanding. I have both. I find myself frequently frustrated with "blazing my own trails" especially as it concerns gender.

The idea of being "very" old with a body outside of binary is somewhat scary. The fear of needing to be taken care of by people who may or may not understanding is very scary. Suppose it will be what it will be though...

Quote from: Fat Admin on January 19, 2013, 12:15:58 PM
I have been deathly afraid of birthdays since the age of 12. I wanted to be a kid forever and not turn into a woman. I still have birthday and age hangups. I think fear of aging is closely tied to being transgender. We only get so much time in this life and we fear life will run out before we can be ourselves.

Yikes, I identify with this x1000.

What a great topic. Thank You, very thoughtful.

I'm 60 BTW.

I know from some interactions with aged care facilities in Australia is that there is an underlying panic in what to do with the baby boomers, there are too many and they will overwhelm the current and planned aged care accommodation. Mixing that with gender diversity, which was a problem that was ignored before. Is causing thinking people in the industry to get very concerned. There appear few answers over here and our political parties are generally too busy trying to keep power as an end, rather than dealing with the problems the country faces, to address such questions. It will be another last minute job.

I did wonder about transitioning at my age, I was going to in my twenties but I failed. Now I have done so I of course regret not doing so, but I'm also very very happy that I have. OK I am fit and healthy, I do look after myself and I have been fortunate in my health.

The changes have made me look and feel younger.  I certainly do not fit into the mould of a 60 yr old woman, and I do not mean by dressing or acting like a teen.  People who interact with me and do not know my age mistake it by 10-20 yrs. I don't think they are being kind.

Yes I regret not being younger, but that is a regret that is never worth even contemplating. There is nothing we can do about it. It is a waste of energy thinking of it.

I don't look forward to growing old and getting infirm. But I have to face it; there is no alternative. Yes, I will maintain my healthy lifestyle, yes I will keep active - and strangely transitioning has changed that. I'm now going out to theatre and music because Cindy like to do that and doesn't hide in the dark, he never went out, he was antisocial, he didn't have a life.


I do.

I did have my concerns about growing old, imagining what my life would be like as an older, transgendered male, and how I would handle my transition by then.  I don't really think about it too much anymore because i honestly don't see myself living past 50 years old.

Quote from: Malachite on February 06, 2013, 03:07:44 AM
I did have my concerns about growing old, imagining what my life would be like as an older, transgendered male, and how I would handle my transition by then.  I don't really think about it too much anymore because i honestly don't see myself living past 50 years old.

I know you have health problems but we can overcome them. Never think negative. This might sound silly but my father in law died at 65 from a heart attack, he had told everyone for years that his dad and his dads dad died from a heart attack when they were 65.

he talked himself into dieing. Never give in.

Oh by they way, I dreamed and prayed that I would have the guts to kill myself by the time I was 25. Thankfully I had the guts not to.

Never gamble on the future.

Quote from: Cindy James on February 06, 2013, 01:42:00 AM
What a great topic. Thank You, very thoughtful.

I'm 60 BTW.

I know from some interactions with aged care facilities in Australia is that there is an underlying panic in what to do with the baby boomers, there are too many and they will overwhelm the current and planned aged care accommodation. Mixing that with gender diversity, which was a problem that was ignored before. Is causing thinking people in the industry to get very concerned. There appear few answers over here and our political parties are generally too busy trying to keep power as an end, rather than dealing with the problems the country faces, to address such questions. It will be another last minute job.

I did wonder about transitioning at my age, I was going to in my twenties but I failed. Now I have done so I of course regret not doing so, but I'm also very very happy that I have. OK I am fit and healthy, I do look after myself and I have been fortunate in my health.

The changes have made me look and feel younger.  I certainly do not fit into the mould of a 60 yr old woman, and I do not mean by dressing or acting like a teen.  People who interact with me and do not know my age mistake it by 10-20 yrs. I don't think they are being kind.

Yes I regret not being younger, but that is a regret that is never worth even contemplating. There is nothing we can do about it. It is a waste of energy thinking of it.

I don't look forward to growing old and getting infirm. But I have to face it; there is no alternative. Yes, I will maintain my healthy lifestyle, yes I will keep active - and strangely transitioning has changed that. I'm now going out to theatre and music because Cindy like to do that and doesn't hide in the dark, he never went out, he was antisocial, he didn't have a life.


I do.

Hi Cindy!
        I'm on the same page with you 100% sweetheart, I'll be 70 in August but my attitude, lifestyle and fitness level is 30's and I too get shocked complements about not possibly being my age, and having such nice skin, which is always very reenforcing.

Meanwhile tell the old age care facilitators not to worry, WWIII is right around the corner and if not that then some pandemic will reset the balance, it always does.

It's really all about attitude.
When I was in my late teens and early twenties, maybe all of my twenties, I couldn't imagine getting past 30.
Of course having a less than safe attitude about living justified that kind of thinking also.
But we all dread getting older and question what will become of us. It's only natural to do this.
I'm 60, going on thirty. See? the problem of getting past thirty just isn't an issue.
Neither is being 60 yrs of age (see what I did there?).
I have 60 yrs worth of memories locked up in my head. A lot of living, most of it good.
Attitude. I refuse to act my age and it shows. Physically and mentally.
I still take command of any situation I'm in, regardless if it is an age related thing or not.
People IRL never figure out my real age, unless I tell them.

From what I read and listen to, it does seem there is this benefit from being Trans*.
I personally think it is because we are more conscious of life around us.
We learn to deal with it. We live out who we really are in most cases.
Maybe not completely, as much as we would hope to, but we still take on the world and defy it.
Most people are content to live in that stable sameness that I mentioned before.
Trans* people don't have that luxury, nor do we want it.
We have something to do that is to important to not do it.
We live in a state of gender that has little or nothing to do with that sameness of life.
It's hard to grow old when you have something important to do for yourself in life.

And you people in your twenties, that are afraid that there will be nothing there for you?
It's up to you. It's up to you to determine what your futures will be. You can do that.
You have way more years to go than you have already lived. Trust that it gets better.
You will find a way. The way. You each have the ability to shape your destinies.
Not all of it is kisses and roses, it takes a stronger will, but you can manage it.
Most people don't have a clue as to what a different life could be. You do.
You know you will never be a part of the stable sameness that most people succumb to.
You won't grow old. Maybe older, but there are many benefits that come with that.
You shape you destiny, your world. Don't like It?
Change it! That's how it will get better.
And as the baby boomers get older, we are changing things. We grew up doing that.
So will you.
Ativan

Great commentary as usual Ativan. Just an added thought to the youngsters here of all ages, something worth thinking about: "You can't be optimistic if you have a misty optic!"

I'm like a good red wine.  I have mellowed with age.