So, one of my trans friends is non-transitioning, and could in theory get pregnant. This leaves him with a bit of a problem:

Sorta want kids. Sorta utterly terrified of spending a year being Unambiguously Female.

Thoughts? I am not sure how to advise on such a thing. I mean, apart from "make sure you have a lawyer lined up in case someone tries to touch your belly and you're forced to punch him repeatedly."

Hi Seebs,

Interesting conundrum. My own personal opinion on this specific matter is; as it involves potentially other innocent people (babies), it's the responsibility of the perpetrator to remove all the "sortas" The "sortas" must become definites, unequivocally.

Personally, I'm free to vacillate between any philosophy, creed, thought, idea or feeling I like. Because I am only responsible to myself. The moment I become responsible for another, specifically a minor, changes the rules of the game substantially.

So my thoughts would be, your friend needs to do whatever is necessary to placate his "sortas" to the "n"th degree. Lawyers in this matter are a waste of time.

Good luck
Huggs
Catherine

Apart from spending several sessions with good friends or a therapist going over the pluses and minuses, I suppose he might want to watch all the episodes of The L Word where Max was pregnant, to clarify whether he felt he could deal with the inevitable dysphoric aspects. Granted, that situation is depicted differently, since Max naively assumed he couldn't get pregnant, while your friend is considering a planned pregnancy. Still, I'd imagine some of the same incidents and emotions are likely to be triggered for him?

Ultimately it's his choice, and one that's obviously a mixed bag. I'd agree "sorta" sounds ambivalent, but then you're asking on his behalf, and perhaps his ambivalence is less strong?

We have quite a few men here who have been through pregnancy.

One in particular, fell pregnant while transitioning. He's now got a lovely little girl, his transition continues.

But more than anything else, transition is about how we think about ourselves, who we are and our place in the universe.

Most of us spend much of our lives, trying so hard to fit into our assigned gender roles. Transition is about understanding that we don't need to apologise for being here any more. That fear is fear of bullies. That we don't owe the world or anything, that God doesn't hate us.

Once we have got to that, the rest is about what we want, not what society expects to see.

I would be interested in resources or information on how much being pregnant increases (or doesn't) existing gender dysphoria. Thing is, it's not the kind of thing where you want to try it and find out four months in that it is driving you suicidally insane to be unable to escape reminders that you have the wrong body. So I'd be really interested in stories or information about that, because I think a big part of the problem is having no way to get real information on what the experience is like.

I also really don't know how bad the misgendering-related problems are; most people who are pregnant identify as female, and wouldn't even notice how often this makes people treat them more like females than usual...

Just when I think FTM is so much easier than MTF, I see a topic like this, and I realize, no, there are a lot more things to consider than just how unfair it is I can't wear a skirt and not stand out.

hey there. i'm the guy seebs was talking about. he was being unnecessarily cagey.

i'm seebs's husband. i'm ftm, non-op, still got all the factory settings physical-wise. we're definite about wanting kids. in an ideal world seebs could be the mom; he's basically non-gendered and also remarkably immune to social wtf-ery.

but in this actual world we live in, i've got the relevant equipment and seebs doesn't. so the practical solution is for me to carry the sprog. i'm not scared of physical discomfort or pain, and it won't make me doubt my self-identification or anything. so on that level it seems like the simple answer is 'go for it'.

the thing is, though, i'm well aware there are a lot of other factors. hormonal changes. constant reminders of physical femaleness. how freaky is it going to be when the girlbody is driving? i have no idea. i don't know how to imagine it.

and then there's the societal factors. the way people react to pregnant women; the whole dang tribe wants to be involved, people get touchy-feely, they ask invasive questions, they don't want to talk about anything else. i watched my sister-in-law go through it, and even though she seemed to enjoy it, i was kind of horrified -- it was like she became a walking pregnancy, and everything else about her became unimportant. i don't know how freaky it's going to be to deal with doctors, either. or, hell, even my parents; they know i'm trans, but they don't really grok it, and they have grandkid fever like whoa.

and then having people refer to me as 'so-and-so's mommy' for like... the rest of my life... *shudders*

so yeah, i'm trying to, as catherine said, placate my sortas. wanting a kid is the only thing i'm not ambivalent about. the rest is frankly terrifying. i'm hoping there are some guys here who can tell me about their experiences, what to watch out for, how they dealt with it. i don't want to go into this blind and then find out i can't handle it, because there's no going back. i want an Action Plan.

Thomas Beatie did it a couple of times.  His wife could not have children.  I see nothing wrong with it, but then I am not the one making that decision.

If you and Seebs want children then that is your business.

And welcome Jack.  Post an intro in the intro section.

I so would not want to be in your position.

I mean you have a proper set of parts, it's just you have his and he has yours, or did I get that backwards

But, life is never fair.

Your kids will deal with it at school and it won't be pretty. And that is the facts, it won't be pretty.

Solutions? hmm I can't even begin. I feel like my son has 2 moms and a dad. But he is now safely 18 and an adult and if someone wishes to say something rude nasty mean, well my son is 6 foot tall.

But for the first bit, it won't matter. Enjoy those 5 years before school thinking up a solution. Daddy is actually mommy and mommy is actually daddy. Weeeeeeell that is going to make a mess of mothers day and fathers day I am sure. And parent teacher visits will always be complicated. You're her wife, but she had your child?

Not to make light of this, but it sounds like a great idea for a tv show.

It's not so much that I'm mom or dad, as that I can't comprehend how the distinction can be meaningful once the breastfeeding part is over. But yeah; the tricky part is the pregnancy part itself, and the tendency for other people to be all MOTHER MOTHER WOMAN MOTHER MOTHER WOMAN GIRL MOTHER WOMAN GIRL FEMALE WOMAN MOTHER GIRL about it.

... I mean, statistically it's not an unreasonable guess or anything, it's just in this case it's annoying.

Quote from: Lesley_Roberta on January 20, 2013, 08:23:45 PM
Not to make light of this, but it sounds like a great idea for a tv show.

ahaha it so would.

no, by all means, make light. i reckon that's how we'll get through the rough parts. plus, we are comedy gold even without adding a kid to the mix.

Well, you're comedy gold, anyway. Jumping up and down trying to reach the high shelves.

Quote from: seebs on January 20, 2013, 09:14:42 PM
Well, you're comedy gold, anyway. Jumping up and down trying to reach the high shelves.

if this were tumblr this is where i'd break out that pic of legolas and gimli.

no, shoosh, i'm seriously trying to get actual advice/support here. *puts the blanket over your cage*

Quote from: jack flash on January 20, 2013, 09:17:29 PM*puts the blanket over your cage*

zzz

Ok, I didn't feel like reading through the whole page, so I'll just ask if the relatively simple option of adoption is still available? 

Here I sit in a male shell, wishing I could get knocked up, pregnant, made to suffer 9 months of all manner of nuisances, the stretch marks the wardrobe hassles. morning sickness and weird cravings.

Meanwhile ordinary females likely would think I must be frigging insane. Oh he's insane, don't get too close it might be contagious.

Meanwhile, well I know what HE feels like while he's doing his guy thing, as I am stuck in the back row unable to really leave or anything. And it's annoying. I can feel his thoughts. Guys, they have it so easy. Sex is just play time. Grunting sweating moment of pleasure and they are out of the picture.

But I feel such overwhelming envy for all I can never have. I feel ripped off.
And because I can't really 'go away' when he is around, I also suffer the feelings he has. Because he feels like a failure as a guy due to disability.

I do remember one thing though prior to having our son. And it is worth saying. We debated briefly, about the wisdom of having a child when I had just been told I was disabled with fybromyalgia and my future was not going to be very fun. We decided, well we were not going to wait for some magical moment when we could afford kids. There is no magical moment when you can afford kids. Rich or poor, there is never enough money. So we went and had our son by intent all the same.

I suppose I can say, tat while it will not be easy, at the same time, there is no such thing as 'easy parenting'. Hey, you will need to pass all the same tests every parent has to pass. The one having the child, your health will be at risk. The one watching, is risking losing a spouse to child birth. Being the one to possibly die is no thrill, and losing the one you love is no thrill. Oh there are so many things that make being a parent a lot of dangerous moments.
But you also get all the moments of joy too.
I didn't carry my son, but, I was still part of the process.
And I sure did the housewife part. My wife worked I was at home. Spent most of the first 5 years strolling around town with him. I was out and about with my son while most dad's were at work. I was at home raising my son, while most dad's were at work. I lived the life my mother had lived when I was young.

But I missed out on the morning sickness and stretch marks. I missed out on the screaming part too
But I managed to do all the rest of the stuff I suppose.

I think over all, you will enjoy being parents, and you will likely experience things that madden you as well.
Oh well, if I had a dollar for every time I was angered as a parent because of something connected to my son, and often connected in some fashion with the education system. It's not like you will not have your chances to get angry at the education system I suppose.

I don't see you suffering any real problems being temporarily in the other role and maybe wearing the other side's apparel.

Quote from: DianaP on January 20, 2013, 10:01:39 PM
Ok, I didn't feel like reading through the whole page, so I'll just ask if the relatively simple option of adoption is still available? 

ideally, we'd like to pass on our genes. seebs's in particular, cuz he's just absurdly smart, healthy, and good-looking.

also, if it turns out i can come up with coping mechanisms for the things that will be hard on me, i'd sort of like to have the experience. i know it sounds weird, but... how many guys get to experience that? it's like, i get the Full Humanity Experience Platter that way.

but yeah, if it turns out to be untenable, adoption would be the next thing to look at. then i'd only be worried about society pressuring me into the 'mommy' mold, and i can stand up to that.

Hi Jack & Seeb,

In a way I somehow understand your dilemma, Jack. It is a very complex situation, best governed by a strong set of values and focussed attention in order to achieve your desired outcomes.

As we are a diverse family here, I'm not exactly sure whether there is adequate knowledge and direct experience that would be of substantial benefit to you both; just on the pregnancy alone, without the social interactions (which in my mind would have to be discounted at all costs) and the complex issues of raising the child.

My only suggestion in this matter would be to contact a clinical psychologist, who is experienced in all matters of pregnant woman and couples.

Assuming you have a moderate gender identity issue, when the Oestrogen for the pregnancy kicks in, it will take someone with a specific knowledge regarding this behaviour to be able to chart as close to probability, an approximate outcome of such a situation.

My own very limited personal experience in this regard was recently when my Endo changed my HRT medication to implants. Within a month, my 'E' levels were in the mid range of a pregnant woman in her first trimester. Dear god, what a place that was to go, psychologically. One of the many side effects was, that it did substantially reduce my GID to an almost inconspicuous level.

I sincerely hope you are able to seek out a professional in this issue.

Lotsa huggs
Catherine     

Quote from: jack flash on January 20, 2013, 10:35:06 PM
adoption would be the next thing to look at. then i'd only be worried about society pressuring me into the 'mommy' mold, and i can stand up to that.

Dear Jack & Seeb,

Thinking on my feet. I can't remember Seeb's commitment to transitioning. If you are agreeable and Seeb transitioned as well as yourself, most of your initial major society issues are answered. The child has a Mother and a Father. No problem.

The other suggestion I would like to make is, I know Dr. Christine McGinn of the Pappilon Centre in PA is a transexual (MtF) who has raised her own family. I can't remember the full details. May be worth contacting. As well as Dr. Marci Bowers of San Mateo? SF. I can't immediately remember who or how she raised her family. Again, worth contacting.

Hope this helps

Huggs
Catherine