I made the mistake of sitting down with my supper to watch the republican debate.  I'm sick to my stomach now.

I'm actually impressed though with one candidate... Ron Paul.  I was at issue with him on only one point... I can't remember what it was.  But he has his head on straight about the real costs of us in our foreign escapades.

I was disgusted with the overwhelming influence of religion in the political discussion.

What is "the assault on the family?"

Why must health care be delegated to "private sector" insurance companies?  Why is it "a mistake" to consider national health care? (Insurance companies btw rake in 20 to 30 percent profit.  I've heard that medicare and the veterans medical costs only 2 to 3 percent.)

Yes, nuclear weapons are on the table.

Overall, the diatribe was non stop.  I love politics.  I hate this crap spewing into my living room.

Cindi

Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 05, 2007, 08:30:05 PM
I was disgusted with the overwhelming influence of religion in the political discussion.

What is "the assault on the family?"

That's code for "your queers is gittin uppity agin"

tmw

"Foreign Escapades"......

These geniuses in the whitehouse, in addition to their other irresponsible and arrogant 'excursions', are really pushing buttons, with this ABM concept in Europe.

Russia is far from impotent.

Yeah... we've really managed to piss of Putin with our missle defense crap we want to plant all over Europe.  Russia's history is filled with invadors.  They have a right to feel threatened.... especially with our current stance in the world; "you're either with us or you're agin us".

Cindi

But BOOSH sez: The Cold War is Over.

[maybe that's code for:

Let's get the thang hetted up agin.]

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 05, 2007, 09:27:46 PM
But BOOSH sez: The Cold War is Over.

[rhetorically] Would you buy a used car from that man?

I wouldn't take one off his hands if he were giving it away!  I'd hate to think what would follow.

Cindi

I think its time to vote for those other guys....not the dems either. I cannot stand either party anymore.

The more you read and observe about this Politics thing, you got to admit that each party is worse than the other. The one that's out always looks the best.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935), Illiterate Digest (1924), "Breaking into the Writing Game"

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.
Will Rogers (1879 - 1935), quoted in Saturday Review, Aug. 25, 1962


Funny how some things never change.

Quote from: Lori on June 05, 2007, 09:59:45 PM
I think its time to vote for those other guys....not the dems either. I cannot stand either party anymore.

Vote for None-of-the-above!!

I'm with you, Lori.  The Republicans have proven (once again) that they can't handle success and have forgotten everything they said that got them elected in the first place.  They spend billions fighting a war (right or wrong, only History will tell), but can't seem to find a couple of million to, at least, hire another handfull of Border Guards.  It seems like all the Democrats can say is "Bush is bad" and never seem to come up with ways to fix the problems they are complaining about.  And when they do come up with a plan, Ms Pelosi seems to find a way to hose it up, or they come right out and tell you that your taxes will go up substantially to fund it (I may like them a lot, but my taxes are already too high).  Shame nobody on either side thinks it is a good idea to quit spending money and live with the record amounts they are already collecting.

Oops...now look what I've done...I've boldly come out of the political closet and announced to the world that I'm a conservative.  I humbly hope for your indulgence and acceptance, the way you hoped for it when you told your friends you were TG.

.....Laurie

Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 05, 2007, 09:40:09 PM
I wouldn't take one off his hands if he were giving it away!  I'd hate to think what would follow.

Cindi

A trail of parts and vital fluids.

I'm not too popular anymore amongst my family for yet another reason: I vehemently oppose the (mis)Administration and the republican party.

Oh well. 

Well you can write any name you want when you vote. Mickey Mouse and Goofy have had lots of votes. I think I'll write "Susan Stanton" this year.

The Republicans and the Democrats don't have any answers.

Gennee

I watched both debates and really wish someone would moderate these things. Over time? Cut off the microphone. Off topic? Cut off the microphone. Want to rabbit on while avoiding a yes/no answer? Cut off the microphone. repeatedly not play by the rules? Throw them off the stage.

it was frustrating to watch all of the dancing around issues.

I will vote for the lesser of two evils even though in my state the general vote will go towards any republican who is running for President. Locally the Dems do okay but then most of the local Dems are pretty conservative.

We have a two party system.  If you vote outside of that, your vote doesn't count really.  My philosophy is if I don't like a candidate, I vote them out by voting for the other guy.  Up until recently, I've never voted a straight party ticket.  I'm all for a third part... or no parties at all!  But reality sets in and I know that we have to make what we have work.  So if you don't like them, vote them out!

Cindi

Well, i'll be honest.


1. we are fighting a war on radical islam. this is important. but the big public issue here was iraq and how to better manage it.

2. don't ask don't tell is discriminatory. there would be no big problem if the u.s. gov. threw it out the window in 2008 or waited.

3. english is the most common language in the u.s., and i think it's important to learn. but the u.s. has been the fourth country in the world with the largest number of spanish speakers. i do not see this as a problem.

4. creationism is not supported by evidence. evolution is supported by evidence. Stop pretending that your god is a mandate for the rest of us.


the rhetoric has sunk to new lows; each candidate appealed to the worst instincts of the american people, while couching their words in lofty terms that only the most naive, uneducated, and easily duped people would believe. only rudy g. sounds like a man, rather than a political animal. the rest of them are chimps.  clearly mcCain has sold out to the big corporations.  oh well.

i thought rudy g. came off best. i would vote for him if he were selected.



so there.

Quote from: Katia on June 06, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
Well, i'll be honest.


1. we are fighting a war on radical islam. this is important. but the big public issue here was iraq and how to better manage it.

2. don't ask don't tell is discriminatory. there would be no big problem if the u.s. gov. threw it out the window in 2008 or waited.

3. english is the most common language in the u.s., and i think it's important to learn. but the u.s. has been the fourth country in the world with the largest number of spanish speakers. i do not see this as a problem.

4. creationism is not supported by evidence. evolution is supported by evidence. Stop pretending that your god is a mandate for the rest of us.


the rhetoric has sunk to new lows; each candidate appealed to the worst instincts of the american people, while couching their words in lofty terms that only the most naive, uneducated, and easily duped people would believe. only rudy g. sounds like a man, rather than a political animal. the rest of them are chimps.  clearly mcCain has sold out to the big corporations.  oh well.

i thought rudy g. came off best. i would vote for him if he were selected.



so there.

Neither can be demonstrated via the 'scientific method'.

Both are theoretical.

The fundamental premise of Evolution is absurd and untenable, in the context of what we know of physics, the universe and nature.

Wishful thinking does not constitute proof nor evidence.


"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Professing to be wise, they became fools,.."

Romans 1:18-22 [NASB]

______________________________________


"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'"

Psalm 14:1 [NASB]


Are you familiar with the 'Second Law of Thermodynamics', Katia?

Evolution is based on a set of theories based on empirical data, these theories are constantly challenged by new empirical data and are used to predict new observations. They are tweeked to reflect new data, if it is possible, if not, new theories are expoused to better explain observations and predict new ones, THAT IS the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

I think lay people have a strange view of science, its not because its a theory that its not sound; in science, there is no absolute, they always open the door to the possibility that another way will better explain the current empirical data. Most often, this new explanation is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, it is built on the foundation of what currently exists. But, sometimes, there is a jump, a brand new way of seeing the world, a new theorie, that changes things, evolution was one of these things, einstein's theories of relativity are another example.

That's why its called a theory, instead of truth, religion deal in absolute but not science.  It took decades for evolution to become the strong theoritical edifice that it is today based on thousands of supporting empirical observations and scientists constantly challenging its premise and derived theories; each theory and data, reinforcing and solidifying the other so that in the end, while not the truth in an absolute sense, it is unimpeachable logically.

The same method used for evolution is used to build theories in all fields, physics to biology, evolution is not a special case, so why balk at how it is applied there.

On the opposite end, in creationism and intelligent design is based on faith, there is no way to tie it to earth bound observations through a theorie that can be challenged and used it to predict future observations. The only thing that remains is a statement that the world is too complicated to not have been created by god. While that kind of absolute is kinda comforting, science is not about comfort and reassurance about our place in the world, and thus creationism in all its form is not science.

I come from a religious background, now agnostic, and I have no qualms about religious beliefs, whatever they are, as long as they stay outside the secular space where a collision between beliefs with varying view cannot be mediated because it is all based on truism in each religion's view of the world that cannot be challenged. So, which version of creationsim is the right one, the christian one or the hindu one? Both, neither, how is it possible to prove either way? If it stays in the spiritual realm, does it really matter which is "right", or there is a right one at all. Does it really challenge a person's personnal faith what other's believe?

Anyway, just some nuggets of non absolute theoritical wisdom's based on mucho empirical data 

Look, creationism has the whole enchilada, everything there is, occurring in six. thousand. years.
(according to a book that has the center of the universe 'right here')

You can't show how that works with any kind of method. Gives 'absurd' a bad name.

tmw

Religion or faith is not theory.  A theory requires facts as supporting evidence.  Facts must be reproducable and measured by any other third party.  Religion does not meet the test for a theory.  Rather it is a belief, conjecture, or postulation only.  I'm not putting it down mind you... it's just not theory.

I had a very hard time with all the religion professed in the debate.  I know that these men hold their faith sacred.  And for that reason, I would appreciate it if they didn't smear it all over the air waves.  Of course... they may not feel the need to do so if it were not set as some kind of standard that must be met.  What in the world is this?

Cindi

Quote from: rhonda13000 on June 05, 2007, 09:29:07 PM

Quote from: The Middle Way on June 05, 2007, 09:27:46 PM
But BOOSH sez: The Cold War is Over.

[rhetorically] Would you buy a used car from that man?

I would but just for long enough to drive it up his [something].

Quote from: Keira on June 07, 2007, 10:10:56 AM

I think lay people have a strange view of science, its not because its a theory that its not sound; in science, there is no absolute, they always open the door to the possibility that another way will better explain the current empirical data. Most often, this new explanation is evolutionary, rather than revolutionary, it is built on the foundation of what currently exists. But, sometimes, there is a jump, a brand new way of seeing the world, a new theorie, that changes things, evolution was one of these things, einstein's theories of relativity are another example.

   I wonder why the stinkheads seem to accept Galileo's theories and Einstein's theory, but their simple little minds can't accept evolution?

   I guess exploiting the solar system and nuclear physics pay off for them somehow. I'd like to deny every one of them the use of every vestige of technology including fire, the wheel, medicine, and clothing. We could keep those people in zoos and allow schools to have field trips so that students can see how great life is without science.

   Sorry if I'm coming across as being mean. I'm actually in a good mood, but it is frustrating to see adults who went to college kissing up to idiots for money and votes. Why is it so hard to make the world a nice place to live?