When the shrink at the gender clinic was like "Oh and you should take time to study men and.. blah blah blah", I was like:
ò_ó  No.

...but only on the inside. :p   I've always been stubborn and HATE being told what I should do. Anywho, I was determined to just carry on being me, worked like a charm for this bloke. I did notice small unconscious changes though. "Oh hang on, I'm sitting like this now? Aight."

Quote from: Arch on January 27, 2013, 11:29:16 PM
I think you're discounting all of the trans men who already had these mannerisms and took a lot of crap for it while they were still living as women. Before I transitioned, I decided that I wasn't going to change anything consciously--I was just going to be myself, and if people thought I was gay, then they would be right, and I would just own it. It worked like a charm, except that people don't read me as gay. (That has good points and bad points.)

I did later adjust a couple of things. For example, once my body fat had redistributed, I found a way of standing that doesn't accentuate my hips as much. And I try not to let my voice go up when I laugh. But that's about it...

I think you're missing the point. I myself have changed little about myself as well when I started transition and I pass most of the time now. I wasn't super feminine before transition nor did I have to train myself to "be a man" to pass. I think, generally, people think T is a super drug that will magically make them go from not passing to passing 100% in like 2 months on T. And while there ARE trans men who pass 100% pre-T and men who's mannerisms are masculine before transition, there are a whole bunch of people who are unrealistic of what T actually does. This is the purpose of the thread, right? My purpose for writing that post wasn't aimed at those who are masculine before transition or pass well before transition. It was aimed at those with unrealistic expectations that many people have about T.

Look at the "do I pass" thread. It's apparent that acting and looking male isn't so easy for many and many people need to ask for advice to pass. Just because someone is trans doesn't mean they automatically know what to do and how to act male. My post was aimed at them. If my post doesn't apply to you, then there is no reason to get upset. You obviously know what you're doing and are well into transition. My post isn't aimed at you.

My thoughts were unrealistic about T. I thought I would have a fair amount of facial hair and a deep enough voice to be seen as male at one year based on what I saw with other guys and my sibling8s. One year came and I next to never was seen as male. Year and a half, I go to pride thinking I'm looking good and that nobody will misgender me. But I was...a lot. And it want about acting masculine or not, or where I lived. It was just how my face and body were. I always had a round chubby face, and I continue to have one. So...I guess T didn't work as fast as I thought in the physical, exterior but it did an unexpected number in my physical health. The psychological too because I get really self conscious way beyond what I was pre T. Pre T I felt okay with not getting seen as male because I knew I wasn't on T.

It's not so much that testosterone ages you, as it is that for the first few years you are going through puberty again, which makes you look and feel more youthful  After the puberty runs its course, then the natural ageing process reasserts itself.  If you age badly, look at your lifestyle and genetics.  You were going that route anyway.  The exact gender specific details depend on the hormones you chose, but the road was already laid.

I come from a very youthful looking family.  Once puberty ran its course, I resumed the family norm of looking young for my age.  I knew guys who came from more normally ageing families, and once they were post-pubescent, they also looked fairly normal for their age.

I'm from an earlier time.  When transition was a fight with the therapists, and if you weren't 100% adamant, you didn't get anywhere.  If you didn't know your stuff, they sure as heck weren't going to tell you anything either.  Going around the system if it did exist in your area was pretty common so that you could get things done.  So I find these stories about people changing their minds a bit surreal.

Transgender is a big umbrella, transsexual is pretty narrow.  There is no shame in being in the former but not the latter.  Has the community lost that over the years?

Shortman

I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

Quote from: Scoot on January 28, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

Yeah, I pass 99% of the time and did before T. It was due to an androgen producing benign tumor though. Why do you ask?

Quote from: Scoot on January 28, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

I usually did.  Why?

I passed for a young boy before I realized I was trans or even started binding, which I thought was weird because I'm not flat. If my friends were with me, they'd end up laughing hysterically at the "blindness" of strangers—which leads me to believe that we are more critical of ourselves than people care to observe.

Quote from: Scoot on January 28, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

I started dressing in a masculine manner a few years ago before I realized and admitted to myself that this was how I am, and would pass on occasion. I even managed to spark a debate over it because half the people in a group thought I was a boy and the other half knew I wasn't- one thought I was trans but I wasn't out to anyone and automatically said no for fear of being labeled a freak. Now I'll gladly take that label. I hate being categorized, but I'm not going to swallow my identity and pride over it.

Then there was a time when my bf and I were mistaken for brothers. That was great, not to mention all the fun "mis"gendering that went on last Christmas while on vacation with extended family. Wasn't fun for my mom to hear a lady ask where her son went off to, but she didn't mind terribly because I wasn't out to her yet. Really stung when she corrected them but I couldn't do a thing about it.

I would drag myself over broken glass, molten lava, and electrified barbed wire if that were standing in between me and getting T. Unfortunately, some less harrowing but more limiting problems are in my way, but I hope that they resolve before too long, because there's a boy here who is banging on the cage walls and wants to grow up into a manchild who will never grow up.

Aging? Baldness? Hair in weird places? Please, I've had back hair since the day I was born. I'd rather be a boy in the body of a bald, hairy old man than a boy in the body of a woman. The steps towards maleness would give me the ability to become increasingly comfortable in my own skin. I don't hate women, but I sure as hell can't live like one. Being in a body known as "girl" is bad enough.

I don't expect to become Mr. Gorgeous on T, but hey, I can dream 

Quote from: Scoot on January 28, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

I did. And unlike Simon, my hormone levels were fine...for a ''chick''. But for me they weren't fine v_v

But I only passed once I accepted everything. All I did was master male mannerisms (talk, walk, etc.) and I started passing.
Guys that think T will solve all their passing problems are delusional.

Quote from: Scoot on January 28, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

Yeah, one funny incident was when I dressed up really girly (schoolgirl-style skirt, lace stockings, frilly blouse with bows, and I had my Prince Valiant haircut, too) and walked around town. A woman came up to me and told me I was the spitting image of her son and how nice it was to see another boy dressed like that. When it happened I felt mostly proud but still a bit weirded out, same as when a classmate complimented me on my facial hair (meant as an insult, it felt like a compliment). This was a few years ago, before I had accepted myself. Other than that I pass sporadically and people tend to "correct" themselves a lot which is annoying, but hopefully T will make it better.

Quote from: Scoot on January 28, 2013, 10:31:07 PM
I'm kinda curious; Anyone here pass well before they were on T? Or before they even accepted themselve as trans?

I'd generally get a few random "sir's" and "young man's" long before I came out. I was told by a friend that I looked like I was always the masculine "girl" out of all my friends (I had an old fb account with pictures from when I was 13). Hell, even at a pool, I was asked by a bunch of kids, "Are you a boy? Did you used to be a boy?", and I wasn't really hiding much, I'd just shaved my head because it was too hot xD.

But, I've basically been living as male for a year and a half, and finally started T a week and a half ago.

Yup, I started passing pretty much as soon as I cut my hair, which was before I realised I was trans. Not as often because I hadn't worked out why certain clothes made me uncomfortable and still wore them, but I still passed. I'm still pre-T and I still pass a lot. The only mannerisms I remember the changing was how I crossed my legs, but even then I did it the guy way a lot.

Quote from: Darrin Scott on January 28, 2013, 09:38:31 AM
I think you're missing the point.

Okay, point taken, but a few qualifiers might make your intention clearer. Generalizations can kill your whole argument if the reader finds one tiny exception to the rule!

Since these days more and more guys are transitioning earlier, I suppose we're simply seeing the youthful "mindset" in action. It's wired into our brains for younger people to be (on average) more impulsive and less able or likely to think about long-term consequences or even consequences at all. I see this every day in my teaching career, and I don't run into many trans students.

Quote from: Arch on January 29, 2013, 11:25:37 AM
Since these days more and more guys are transitioning earlier, I suppose we're simply seeing the youthful "mindset" in action. It's wired into our brains for younger people to be (on average) more impulsive and less able or likely to think about long-term consequences or even consequences at all. I see this every day in my teaching career, and I don't run into many trans students.

True. Which is why my mother made me promise to only start physically transitioning once I was 18.
Even at 18 your brain is still not fully developed but I'm close to 19 and I have many physicians watching over me.
And even though I was angry at her, I'm glad I waited. Transitioning is serious and many don't seem to understand that.
Oups! Ranting, I'll stop now ._.

I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore.
I'll just leave now *slowly creeps away*

Edit: HRT blockers wouldn't really count since it's not permanent.

Quote from: Jayr on January 29, 2013, 11:52:27 AM
True. Which is why my mother made me promise to only start physically transitioning once I was 18.
Even at 18 your brain is still not fully developed but I'm close to 19 and I have many physicians watching over me.
And even though I was angry at her, I'm glad I waited. Transitioning is serious and many don't seem to understand that.
Oups! Ranting, I'll stop now ._.

It was a good subject to rant about and shows wisdom from a 19 year old, we all need to take your comments seriously!

Quote from: Simon on January 28, 2013, 10:50:45 PM
Yeah, I pass 99% of the time and did before T. It was due to an androgen producing benign tumor though. Why do you ask?

Just curious; I was surprised so many transguys didn't pass. I've passed since I was eleven at least 50% of the time, and then by the time I came out, I was at 80% or so. Now it's rare I get misgendered and I'm not on T yet. I guess I was just wondering.

Quote from: Scoot on January 30, 2013, 07:32:31 PM
Just curious; I was surprised so many transguys didn't pass. I've passed since I was eleven at least 50% of the time, and then by the time I came out, I was at 80% or so. Now it's rare I get misgendered and I'm not on T yet. I guess I was just wondering.

Gosh you all are lucky. My voice is a dead giveaway. So unless I can figure out how to remain completely silent all the time, I'm not really sure how to pass at this point.

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 30, 2013, 07:53:05 PM

Lol Devlyn. Tempting...tempting.