OK, so it's going to be ages before that can happen, but I may as well think ahead, right?

I've done a lot of research on the effects of hormone treatment, and most of them are things I definitely, unambiguously want. However, a few ones that I'd like more information on:

* Loss of muscle mass - OK, the main reason this one worries me is because I have next to no muscle already. Especially around the arms.
* Weight - I've heard accounts of estrogen supposedly leading to increased weight gain, due to fat re-distribution and increased appetite. Now, this one would be mostly fine as I could stand to gain a little weight anyway (I'm 5'11'' and 144lbs, or 65.3kg), but I want to know whether this is a general thing, or if it varies highly from individual to individual.
* Orgasm - this is the big one. I want to know whether I'll still be able to experience orgasms while on HRT. If so, how are they different? Because if I couldn't orgasm anymore... well, I could just about bear it, but that would suck really hard.

And generic question - what sort of time frame does it take for estrogen to feel 'right'? Does it happen quickly? Will it take a couple of months? Longer?

Actually, while I've made the topic, I may as well tack this question on too - without HRT, can having foods high in estrogen have any beneficial effect? Obviously it would be to a much milder extent, but it might help a little...

In many respects, I'm quite lucky really, because my body is already pretty feminised (low muscle mass, thin waist, even slight breasts). In fact, the main thing that I think would mainly hold me back from being read as female is my voice, and estrogen I know has little effect on that (was v. upset when I discovered that fact).

Thanks, you're all awesome.

Here's the information fom our wiki (Thanks, wiki Staff!)

https://www.susans.org/wiki/Estrogen

I can't speak long term because I've only been on hormones for just under 4 months but I'll try to say what I have experienced so far:

- I have not noticed a large change in muscle mass and this is probably because I'm already extremely skinny and small like yourself
- I know I've heard both weight gain and loss from hormones but I'm about 6'0 and I now weigh 135, and before I was 145.
- Well I just started to notice a lot of shrinkage, but the bigger thing is your sex drive will most likely decrease and it will feel different, at least for me it did, and I also found the intensity was weaker as well as the strength of the erection to have dramatically weakened but it definitely could vary on the individual, just from my experience so far.
- I'm not sure what you mean by "feel right", but mentally/emotionally I felt a lot of changes at about a month into it and since then my emotions have magnified and I cry a lot more.
-I have no clue on the food, but my personal guess would be no, but I'm not a doctor.
-Your body sounds very similar to mine, since right now I'm about 6'0 and 135 pounds.

This is only based on my experience so far, not an internet guide or anything.

Best of luck!

.

Quote from: Cassandra Hyacinth on January 29, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
OK, so it's going to be ages before that can happen, but I may as well think ahead, right?

I've done a lot of research on the effects of hormone treatment, and most of them are things I definitely, unambiguously want. However, a few ones that I'd like more information on:

* Loss of muscle mass - OK, the main reason this one worries me is because I have next to no muscle already. Especially around the arms.
* Weight - I've heard accounts of estrogen supposedly leading to increased weight gain, due to fat re-distribution and increased appetite. Now, this one would be mostly fine as I could stand to gain a little weight anyway (I'm 5'11'' and 144lbs, or 65.3kg), but I want to know whether this is a general thing, or if it varies highly from individual to individual.
* Orgasm - this is the big one. I want to know whether I'll still be able to experience orgasms while on HRT. If so, how are they different? Because if I couldn't orgasm anymore... well, I could just about bear it, but that would suck really hard.

And generic question - what sort of time frame does it take for estrogen to feel 'right'? Does it happen quickly? Will it take a couple of months? Longer?

Actually, while I've made the topic, I may as well tack this question on too - without HRT, can having foods high in estrogen have any beneficial effect? Obviously it would be to a much milder extent, but it might help a little...

In many respects, I'm quite lucky really, because my body is already pretty feminised (low muscle mass, thin waist, even slight breasts). In fact, the main thing that I think would mainly hold me back from being read as female is my voice, and estrogen I know has little effect on that (was v. upset when I discovered that fact).

Thanks, you're all awesome.

The short answer to your questions is that it all varies by person. Some gain weight, other loose it. Some can still maintain and erection and achieve orgasm on HRT, others can not. In general, the younger you are, the stronger the effect HRT will have for you. It usually takes a number of years for the effects to be seen completely. But this is not a rule written in stone either. You really just have to take the ride and see where it leads.

Hi as others have said. It varies a lot.
I am back on HRT after a 20 year gap and have been on E for about 2.5 months now. I am 108 kg (slightly overweight) and 5'7" tall.  From my first transition I have A Cup breasts, but on this new start, I had my baseline meds done and discovered that my Testosterone levels were very low. My GP said Natal females have a range of 0.25 to 3.0 in testosterone, whilst natal males have a range of 8-30. My baseline was 5, before I started HRT. I am now waiting for my 2 months figures to come back

I have not lost weight, but the fat has started to re-distribute in a small way. From my tummy to below my belly button. The result I have my waist re-emerging.  My skin is much softer and I have started to lose muscle has. I also find that I don't have such a big appetite, so I reckon my metabolism is changing. One really suprising thing for me, is that I have gone down in 2 shoe sizes. I have small feet and hands (and thankfully no Adams apple), but I was either UK 7.5 or 8 (Size 42/Australian Size 12), but now find that size 42 is very loose on my feet and especially with wider shoe fittings (c) , I can easily fit into size 10 (38). Thats in two months.

Girl friends have noticed my face is more rounded and my beautician has said my complexion is starting to look good. Mind you 6 IPL sessions on the Upper lip have made a huge difference and I can now go 5 days without shaving on getting the blue tint. On my last Therapist visit, she said my face already had a nice feminine glow to it (but I reckon that might just be the makeup bronzer). Since I had my eyelashes tinted and my eyebrows shaped that has made a big difference too. My breasts have started to grow again. Whilst my Areola and nipples have been large for the last 20 years or so, now I am noticing a more roundness in the breast with tissue being formed at the side. Again I am looking to have to start thinking about wearing a Sports Bra all the time to stop them being so obvious under tight TShirts.

I had a bit of depression about 4 weeks in, but that soon lifted and I am back to my normal self. I have also noticed that the men in my working life are becoming a bit more dominant/overbearing around me. Again my therapist says thats because as Women with bodies being flooded with Oestrogen (typical in Cis females at the start of the month), I have started to give off pheromones that the "men" will be unconsciously detecting and reacting too> .

The most important thing is is create a timeline for yourself, but dont expect huge changes immediately Also take body measurements with a tailors tape measure on the 1st of each month.

Hugs

JudithLynn

Quote from: Cassandra Hyacinth on January 29, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
And generic question - what sort of time frame does it take for estrogen to feel 'right'? Does it happen quickly? Will it take a couple of months? Longer?

For me I was giddy from the first pill, felt right straight away. That was probably purely psychological but within 2 weeks I was still feeling good, calm and like myself for once. Not to discount that I had started living part-time more and more.

Quote from: Cassandra Hyacinth on January 29, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
Actually, while I've made the topic, I may as well tack this question on too - without HRT, can having foods high in estrogen have any beneficial effect? Obviously it would be to a much milder extent, but it might help a little...

I did make diet changes and started using some estrogenic herbs for 6-7 months beforehand, I did get some minor effects but very minor. It would take years to have serious effect.

As for the orgasms, well it depends what libido you are referring to. Most people will see a diminished male libido.

I noticed I never get erections spontaneously anymore and I have no desire to use "it" ever, even during sex to climax.. but I don't think thats related to HRT, I never wanted to use it like male for a LONG time except to climax from penetration when I caved and still HATED it, wish I didn't have to use it..

Now that I'm on HRT and have more experience, I've found my female libido is actually higher and more attuned, my nipples are now really erogonous and anal sex is much more pleasurable.

I don't know your orientation, but I'm mostly hetero and I still get erections easily with the right mental or physical stimulation from a male and orgasms are just as intense.

Everyone does E differently...my experiences after 11 months:

* Loss of muscle mass
Loss of strength, yes....mass...not so much.  I am definitely losing "male" definition, though. I used to have very well-defined leg muscles, and (when I worked out) arm muscles, too. Now I can see a modest amount of fat, especially on the thighs and calves...enough to really feminize my legs.


* Weight
Yes, I'm eating more. And it's sticking...to my hips, legs, and chest (breasts). Boobs, of course, are cool...when I first saw the fat "band" on my hips (about 3" all around, at the tops of the hip bone) I was like, "Cool! I'm getting fat on my hips and thighs!" because of course, we want more shapely curves...but then I was like, "OMG! I'm getting fat on my hips and thighs! How do I get it off!?!!" 

* Orgasm
Yes. Oh, YES! OMG OMG Omg OOooomg omg! Just, it's not a guy's "O" at all. I don't even get a guy's hip thrust surge anymore. It's more like "wrap arms and legs around and clamp onto something TIGHT  TIGHT TIGHT OMG OMG OMFG!!!!" Learn to masturbate "female" or "female-ish"...that's supposed to help keep things alive down there.

(Female-ish = if you were female, with female parts...you wouldn't be jacking off, would you? Nothing there to jack off with...so you'd get into caresses, clitoral rubbings w/fingertips, palms, etc...use your imagination)

what sort of time frame does it take for estrogen to feel 'right'? Does it happen quickly? Will it take a couple of months? Longer?
When I was first prescribed testosterone, I KNEW, even in the dr's office, that it would turn out badly. It did. Took me a couple months to get it, and use one or two packets. NO NO NO.

With Estrogen, when I first got the Rx in-hand, I started smiling....took the first a couple hours later (my pharmacy was like an hour 45 away, otherwise I'd done the deed in the parking lot)...instant calm, happy, omg this is GREAT....

But it still took a few months to get most of the "guy" emotions out of their position. Still working on that a bit. Moving forward, though....LOVE IT!!!

Well... differences of changes come with genetics. Everyone reacts differently to E. But in my experiences over 17 months:

Muscle mass: I'm defined as an athletic female. My muscle mass couldn't be considered male, but it's very lean. It's average to above average for a female. I'd say I was fairly narrow as a boy but was pretty strong for my size (at the time, 5'6" 140 lbs), with a very defined physique that was completely masculine. Now, I look awesome in a tank top. In fact I get quite a bit of attention in one from men. I've done a double take in the mirror at times in amazement at how feminine my body looks (in muscle mass).

Weight: At first, got EXTREMELY hungry and couldn't stop eating. I lost 10-15 lbs during that time. Then I gained it all back (nearly all of it). I started at 140, now I'm at 135.

Orgasm: Well, unfortunately mine became much less spectacular. I barely know when I have one anymore. However I can have multiple ones. That might be a result of my T being in the basement for a long time (last I checked it, they couldn't detect any T in my blood).

i had/have a similar body type to you, so consider that as i give my responses, though of course everyone's experiences do end up differently.

muscles: you don't think you have any muscle tone, but you do.  i was even skinnier than you, and struggling with an eating disorder.  yet still, at 130 lbs/59 kg today, i have less upper body musculature than i did before transition at 110 lbs/50kg.  these days i think i probably have pretty typical muscle tone for a not-particularly active library shrew of my age.  (which is 20.)

weight: your metabolism might slow, or it might not.  personally i don't really know what mine did.  i still have to make myself eat because i have a bad history with eating disorders, but i don't think it's particularly hard to keep myself at a healthy weight as long as i'm keeping track of my intake.

orgasm: they're still there.  pretty much the same.  i didn't have really any particular dramatic changes during hrt and before srs, and even afterwards it's.....pretty much the same feeling, y'know?  if you can orgasm now your ability isn't going to suddenly vanish.

'settling in': it was around six months before i felt like anything was really noticeably different.  for the most part it was just nice to have the cathartic knowledge that i was taking the pills, so that could just be the placebo effect at work or just a psychological security blanket or what.  i don't think it was a result of the hormones 'being right'.

phytoestrogens, etc: it's hypothetically possible, but not really particularly feasible.  you'd need to be eating several packs of tofu per day for there to be any real effect, and it would be very mild, at best.

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on January 29, 2013, 10:42:48 PM
Orgasm: Well, unfortunately mine became much less spectacular. I barely know when I have one anymore. However I can have multiple ones. That might be a result of my T being in the basement for a long time (last I checked it, they couldn't detect any T in my blood).

I'm afraid of this myself and have told my Endo that I would want to reduce Spiro dosage once I get close to female levels of T.

Do you know if your going to do anything about it? Did your Endo say anything?

Personally I'd like to avoid it bottoming out completely.

Yeah I noticed that, my Spiro dosage was just increased by my Gyno and since then the orgasms are a lot weaker, at first I was pretty shocked but after thinking about it, I relaxed......somewhat.

Quote from: Aleah on January 29, 2013, 10:59:25 PM
I'm afraid of this myself and have told my Endo that I would want to reduce Spiro dosage once I get close to female levels of T.

Do you know if your going to do anything about it? Did your Endo say anything?

Personally I'd like to avoid it bottoming out completely.

I would suggest waiting until you get to that point. Sex and orgasms might "feel" important now, but part of transition includes the changing views of "self" as you relate to everything and everyone.

Then again, your sex drive may start going up, once you "learn" how to do it with your new senses. Many strange and interesting things can happen on HRT....

Well everyone should have some T, even cisfemales. I don't think it's unreasonable to want female levels

But I still have no idea what the best way to achieve that is.. wait till you get too low or slow down once you get in range, I guess my Endo can tell me eventually.

Quote from: Aleah on January 29, 2013, 11:16:22 PM
Well everyone should have some T, even cisfemales. I don't think it's unreasonable to want female levels

But I still have no idea what the best way to achieve that is.. wait till you get too low or slow down once you get in range, I guess my Endo can tell me eventually.

Yup, generally that's the method. Wait until there's a problem, don't anticipate things by pre-medicating high or low.

Cis-females are pretty much self-regulating (as are cis-males), they're treated when there's a problem. We, on the other hand, are not self-regulating, that's why we have to get our hormone levels checked by bloodwork every so often....prescriptions and treatment plans follow the bloodwork, if needed.

Quote from: Cassandra Hyacinth on January 29, 2013, 06:48:47 PM
OK, so it's going to be ages before that can happen, but I may as well think ahead, right?

I've done a lot of research on the effects of hormone treatment, and most of them are things I definitely, unambiguously want. However, a few ones that I'd like more information on:

* Loss of muscle mass - OK, the main reason this one worries me is because I have next to no muscle already. Especially around the arms.
* Weight - I've heard accounts of estrogen supposedly leading to increased weight gain, due to fat re-distribution and increased appetite. Now, this one would be mostly fine as I could stand to gain a little weight anyway (I'm 5'11'' and 144lbs, or 65.3kg), but I want to know whether this is a general thing, or if it varies highly from individual to individual.
* Orgasm - this is the big one. I want to know whether I'll still be able to experience orgasms while on HRT. If so, how are they different? Because if I couldn't orgasm anymore... well, I could just about bear it, but that would suck really hard.

And generic question - what sort of time frame does it take for estrogen to feel 'right'? Does it happen quickly? Will it take a couple of months? Longer?

Actually, while I've made the topic, I may as well tack this question on too - without HRT, can having foods high in estrogen have any beneficial effect? Obviously it would be to a much milder extent, but it might help a little...

In many respects, I'm quite lucky really, because my body is already pretty feminised (low muscle mass, thin waist, even slight breasts). In fact, the main thing that I think would mainly hold me back from being read as female is my voice, and estrogen I know has little effect on that (was v. upset when I discovered that fact).

Thanks, you're all awesome.

Hey Cassandra I haven't been HRT long but I will answer the best I can. I workout a lot and had a lot of defined muscles key word there is had  Its funny the pecks I worked so hard to get are disappearing rather fast . So the answer to that question is yes you will lose muscle mass. As far as appetite it has increased but I figure hey if I want breasts and a nice butt I probably should eat more. As far as orgasm's go hope you like working for it! Because it will take a lot more effort! Then you wonder after the fact why was I doing this again what was the point doing this I could have watched TV or something sad but true.   As far as time frame goes I started noticing I was happier with in the first couple of days but what was amazing was when other people starting noticing I was happier its like wow your right I am happier! I hope my answers helped you somewhat.

Quote from: Aleah on January 29, 2013, 10:59:25 PM
I'm afraid of this myself and have told my Endo that I would want to reduce Spiro dosage once I get close to female levels of T.

Do you know if your going to do anything about it? Did your Endo say anything?

Personally I'd like to avoid it bottoming out completely.

I honestly don't mind.... Orgasms didn't ever make me happy or thrill me. But having oily skin and hair and having stinky man smell did disgust me. My endo actually says it's okay to have T that low. I do have a sex drive, it's just ... the orgasms aren't as breath taking as before.

The highest my T has ever been tested at was 25 ng/ml, which is well within female levels... I've LOVED the hair falling out of my legs and arms and even my nose the past few months with my T being so low. I realize some T is good (especially for a working sex drive), but my blood tests are all perfect so apparently it's healthy for me.

Well I have to ask, how long until that hair falling out of your legs happens? I'm tired of having to shave so often -_-

Quote from: EmmaS on January 30, 2013, 12:26:30 AM
Well I have to ask, how long until that hair falling out of your legs happens? I'm tired of having to shave so often -_-

it's not going to go away, it's, uh, leg hair.  everyone has it.

Quote from: EmmaS on January 30, 2013, 12:26:30 AM
Well I have to ask, how long until that hair falling out of your legs happens? I'm tired of having to shave so often -_-

Mine is still there.. but the thigh hair is almost invisible.