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This area of the site is freaking me out.

Started by Shakira, January 28, 2013, 12:10:56 AM

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Catherine Sarah

Quote from: Shakira on January 28, 2013, 12:10:56 AM
..... was that Allah doesn't make mistakes.

Quote from: spacial on January 29, 2013, 11:52:52 PM
No, He doesn't.

With all due respects. I know I must be missing a major point to this discussion; BUT; how can you prove that theory??   Blinding rhetoric has no place in society. Its counterproductive, misleading and insulting.

An Islam baby born with spina bifada. That surely has to be some sort of mistake. So, who's responsible for that mistake if allah wasn't?

The mother?, the father?, the doctor?, the hospital?, the water carrier?; the baby?? SOMEONE has to be responsible.  It's delusional, regressive, counterproductive and immature to accept it, "just happens."

For gods sake, civilisation wouldn't be where it is today if our generational predecessors took the stand point, "it just happens;" no body is to blame for anything.

Remember to keep your explanation on that rhetoric real simple. Because if you are right; I have a major deficiency in primary understanding.

With all due respects
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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spacial

Understood Cathrine. Perfectly valid questions in my opinion.

May I start by saying I am not Muslim. I was wali to a niece revert and went to her Nikah. Because I like to know what I'm taking on and because that niece is more precious than anything, I spent quite some tome looking closely at Islam. More so than I had done with my previous, general studies.

For a Muslim, the purpose to life is to worship God. In the Koran, it is stated, "I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me." [51:56] However frustrating such disabilities are, for a Muslim they are simply part of temporary existance.

When I say: No. He doesn't. I am affirming what a good Muslim will take for granted.

I appreciate that many who are either cynical or seeking to abandon all aspects of faith find endless contraditions. These are perfectly understandable when all any of us see are different groups fighting for power and money, with little regard for welfare.

I don't seek to argue that point here. I was only attempting to address the very real concerns of Shakira to a valid point put by a fellow Muslim.

Again, for a westerner, it may be difficult to grasp, but Muslims are habitually, very respectful of rhetoric and argument, properly presented with regard to the principals of Islam. In particular, Muslims especially appreciate references to Hadith.

In another thread, to another Muslim member, I made a reference to hadith, but sadly, referenced a collection more closely associated with a different sect from that member's. I hope I am capable of learning lessons. So this time I simply presented an argument.

The Koran is universal among Muslims. So I am safe citing a passage from that. I should think almost every Muslims ever, has already heard that passage anyway.
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Catherine Sarah

Thanks spacial,

I can see where you're coming from.

And yes you are right about the cynicism. Many contradictions abound. Particularly when they are personally based on abuse.

Thank you for your explanation

Huggs
Catherine




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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DoctorInternet333

Yes I agree, the Muslim should not have said Allah does not make mistakes, I mean is Allah for real anyway? As far as I'm concerned I am a man who was born with a female's soul, something went wrong at birth, it's a disability like any other, in fact worse because no one knows you have one except the people who understand it. The thing is, what do we do about it, that is only for us to decide. I have suffered a lot of pain over the past 7 years because of this problem I have. I've more or less accepted it will not go away, but am still to scared to try transitioning.
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spacial

Quote from: DoctorInternet333 on February 12, 2013, 02:33:20 AM
Yes I agree, the Muslim should not have said Allah does not make mistakes, I mean is Allah for real anyway? As far as I'm concerned I am a man who was born with a female's soul, something went wrong at birth, it's a disability like any other, in fact worse because no one knows you have one except the people who understand it. The thing is, what do we do about it, that is only for us to decide. I have suffered a lot of pain over the past 7 years because of this problem I have. I've more or less accepted it will not go away, but am still to scared to try transitioning.

I'm sure we all understand your point.

But an another, equally valid way to look at this, is not to see a disability, but a challange.

A small person will generaly, not be able to run as fast as a tall person, but with extra effort they might.

From the perspective of someone who accepts God, he didn't make a mistake making the person small, he gave them a challange.

I don't think it is yours or my place to question belief, whether it is Islam, Christianity or Atheism. Each is equally valid in that those who accpet them are hopefully comfortable.

Welcome to Susans' by the way.
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GendrKweer

Two pieces of advice that work well for me, and maybe for you:

1) REJECT CATEGORIES
2) EVOLVE!!

If you can smile while you do so, you're waaay ahead of the curve. Good luck!
Blessings,

D

Born: Aug 2, 2012, one of Dr Suporn's grrls.
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Q

Quote from: GendrKweer on February 13, 2013, 08:41:28 AM
Two pieces of advice that work well for me, and maybe for you:

1) REJECT CATEGORIES
2) EVOLVE!!

If you can smile while you do so, you're waaay ahead of the curve. Good luck!

I like this advice!

Short. Punchy. Sounds dynamic and could be applied to almost anything.

Appeals to my sense of rebelliousness too.
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Aleah

People are born with all sorts of physical and psychological anamolies, including intersex conditions and these were identified and addressed by the early Muslims.. Including transgender, the mukhannath who were not labeled outside the fold of Islam or sinners. If your interested in my opinion, I did a little write up about it: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,128938.0.html

Allah (SWT) does not make mistakes and you are not a mistake, and like anybody born with anything it is a fitnah (trial), you are seeking treatment to address the physical anomaly (having the wrong body).. just like someone who is born blind or anything, transition is the way to overcome your fitnah! Muslims pioneered some of the earliest corrective surgeries.. so any arguments against medical intervention do not hold weight.

So ignore that ignorant fool who probably lacks any true ilm' or taqwa, Allah (SWT) created you that way and you should be proud of your true identity for that reason.

Salam alaykum wa rahmatullah sister
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DoctorInternet333

Quote from: spacial on February 13, 2013, 08:38:46 AM
I'm sure we all understand your point.

But an another, equally valid way to look at this, is not to see a disability, but a challange.

A small person will generaly, not be able to run as fast as a tall person, but with extra effort they might.

From the perspective of someone who accepts God, he didn't make a mistake making the person small, he gave them a challange.

I don't think it is yours or my place to question belief, whether it is Islam, Christianity or Atheism. Each is equally valid in that those who accpet them are hopefully comfortable.

Welcome to Susans' by the way.


Yes I am happy with all that. I was using the word disability loosely, I see it as a disability as far as I'm concerned because it makes life difficult for me, just like someone who has to be in a wheelchair has difficulties. It affects me every day, and because I look like a man I'm expected to do all of the things a man does with ease, and I find I can't, but people don't know that.
I still think that we are likely to come across a lot of discrimination from people who are comfortable in their sex, people who have their own ideas on why people are given sexual identities and perceive them to be the wrong ones. It's not often talked about in the real world either.
One of the biggest problems we face is that this is an invisible problem, we have to speak out to make our problems known. I think it's good that people can openly discuss it with their families, but I don't feel I can with mine, they are the wrong sort of family, they are Christians as well.  It's a pity they can't do more to treat the 'challenge' and make us all what we want and need to be.
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spacial

Quote from: DoctorInternet333 on February 16, 2013, 04:06:21 AM

Yes I am happy with all that. I was using the word disability loosely, I see it as a disability as far as I'm concerned because it makes life difficult for me, just like someone who has to be in a wheelchair has difficulties. It affects me every day, and because I look like a man I'm expected to do all of the things a man does with ease, and I find I can't, but people don't know that.
I still think that we are likely to come across a lot of discrimination from people who are comfortable in their sex, people who have their own ideas on why people are given sexual identities and perceive them to be the wrong ones. It's not often talked about in the real world either.
One of the biggest problems we face is that this is an invisible problem, we have to speak out to make our problems known. I think it's good that people can openly discuss it with their families, but I don't feel I can with mine, they are the wrong sort of family, they are Christians as well.  It's a pity they can't do more to treat the 'challenge' and make us all what we want and need to be.

I think most reasonable people will agree with you on these points.

Thank you.
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