Quote from: Keaira on February 02, 2013, 03:10:00 PM
Just to note, A straying hand like that can also be considered assault. I've never been to a gay club, although I think it would be an interesting experience. But then again, I have grown to take a pretty dim view of the gay community. Judging from what people have posted here, they seem to be as clueless as the cis-population. Which is really sad. I mean what's so hard to understand? Leave us alone to live our lives as normally as possible. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

Please keep in mind you're judging a group based on what one insensitive person happened to do. Drinking and thinking don't tend to mix well. I've had plenty of pleasant experiences in gay clubs, and many close friends are lesbians, though not necessarily the clubbing kind. Someone acting badly in a club, though, is always a possibility, and you may never know the reason for it. Had she just been rejected by a transman? Was she in conflict with herself and drinking too much? Perhaps she (or rather he) was a transman in deep denial himself?  Who knows? These things can happen. Try not to judge everyone based on one bad move by one individual.

Quote from: Simon on February 02, 2013, 05:18:42 PM
I really wish we weren't lumped together with the GLB people. To me, being lumped together with three groups that are defined by sexuality isn't where Transgender people belong.

i dont think transsexuals belong lumped with LGB people because gender identity and sexuality are separate. also transsexualism in my mind is a medical condition. i am closer to intersex then gay.

We're not that different. Gay people and trans people both face hate from morons for not conforming to behavior associated with their sex. Is the difference between gender identity and sexuality really relevant in LGBT?

Quote from: Albina on February 04, 2013, 04:44:52 AM
You probably didn't get the point: we were discussing it from the medical point of view, not morons'. Personally I don't see myself associated in any way with gays. You might be another matter, I don't know. It is probably a necessity to stand our rights which makes us lumped together.

I think we might make better strides if Transgender was separate. People tend to be more accepting of things that aren't sexual in nature (cause we all know, that's a sin ) and if the medical community said that this is a medical condition that things would get better for us faster.

I know people hate the stigma of this being a psychological condition but really, it's the best way to explain it.

I feel less and less connection to LGB people as I've got older and seen and been on the receiving end of their bad attitude and ignorance.

Ugh, this is such bad news and I'm sorry it happened to you. I need to get back into dating again and I'm looking forward to going to gay clubs, but I really don't like the thought of being treated like that.

I have no choice but to move in these circles because I'm both gay and trans, so I need to be in spaces that are safe for both.

Is this a common experience for y'all who visit gay clubs, or is it just something that happens occasionally?

Quote from: Albina on February 04, 2013, 03:02:31 AM
I fully agree. I don't want to be lumped with LGB either - we are different. And yes, we have F64.0 diagnosis with psychiatrists - that at least should cause sympathy to us from thoughtful cis people, not disdain.

Ummm....homosexuality was in the DSM.

Quote from: Albina on February 04, 2013, 04:44:52 AM
You probably didn't get the point: we were discussing it from the medical point of view, not morons'. Personally I don't see myself associated in any way with gays. You might be another matter, I don't know. It is probably a necessity to stand our rights which makes us lumped together.

LGBTQIA (etc.) is a social movement/community, not a diagnostic classification. Also, keep in mind it wasn't too many decades ago that homosexuality had its own entry in the DSM of the day (several versions ago). [Sorry to have repeated what Nygeel already pointed out].

While the jury is still out on whether or not there's an organic factor in being trangendered (or to having any of the less common orientations) -- even though same-sex attraction has been removed from the DSM, there is still reasonable speculation that orientation also has organic roots, so in that sense, at least until medical research is a lot more developed and less biased, there remains a common bond in terms of biological and medical studies.

As with anything that is social, not every aspect of being gay, lesbian, bi, poly or anything else in this world and culture actually has something to do with sexuality itself... for many it's not even the primary factor in how it shapes someone's life.

I had a very old-timer gay friend (born in the 1920s or maybe the teens) who had a very different experience than someone might have growing up today. He had an interesting career and a very full life, and, all things considered, very little sex with anyone (though one of those he did have sex with was rather famous -- also, rare for him, female).  Ultimately, our personal opinions on this don't really matter that much anyhow. There's enough common ground that, if those who rankle at being "placed" in this community had gotten their way, the only result would probably have been even worse discrimination and less progress than has been made so far. 

Frankly, from what I've seen of trans activism, while there are some awesome exceptions to this, gay and lesbian activists (and organizations) have done more for us than we have done for ourselves in many instances over the recent past.  Granted, many of those activists who started off identifying as leaders in the gay or lesbian communities, also turned out to be trans. Thankfully there have been exceptional activists who have chosen to give up privacy and the illusions of security or "stealth" to be a part of that community and ensure that at least some of our particular interests are heard when it comes to setting goals and clarifying what it will take to make this world a better place for those of us who happen to be trans (some of whom may also be gay, lesbian, bi, poly, and so on).

Quote from: FTMDiaries on February 04, 2013, 08:35:26 AM
Is this a common experience for y'all who visit gay clubs, or is it just something that happens occasionally?

I haven't been very active in gay clubs or any other clubs, but I've never had an experience like this. The worst that ever happened were stares from younger transwomen who may have been wondering why Grannie was there... and my self-consciousness about age was probably just that, my problem. I've never been treated rudely in a gay club, in my admittedly limited experience with them.  But if I were a regular, I suspect at some point I might have run into someone rude.  I've seen this depicted far more in movies and TV shows than I've ever seen it in real life.

As a pre-op trans woman, I expected to face considerable discrimination from the lesbian community. I hasn't happened, in fact, when out clubbing I've been nothing but made to feel welcome - in 1 or 2 cases, very welcome..

If I'm out clubbing, I make no secret of my past - it prevents any misunderstandings. I'm wondering if the age of the crowd I hang with has anything to do with it, they are mostly under 30's and don't seem to have some of the hang ups of the older crowd.

Now, as to whether we should be associated with the LGBQ alphabet soup? As has been pointed out, the association has been somewhat beneficial over the years. Apart from being trans, I'm also a lesbian, so I'd be a 'member' of that group any way. Is being gay and being trans the same? Not at all, but given the state of the 'trans community' I think the association is useful.

This is why I really, really dislike much of the LGBTQ community and don't consider myself a part of it. Firstly, being outed almost immediately, secondly, the audacity of some of these people. And I certainly won't go to a gay club...mainly considering I don't like clubbing, but that scene just isn't for me or my fiance.