I have finally come to the point where I can say that transition real desire of mine. Today my extremely supportive Girlfriend and I split up. I told here of my intentions which up untill this point were rather vague. She loves me but said that she would not want to be with a Girl. It bears mentioning that without her I would not have been able to get to this point in my life where I can put me first. I have been going to Therapy for a few weeks and have dread this day for a while, at the same time I have also looked forward to it. I really want to move forward aggresively because otherwise I feel like I lost her for nothing.

That out of the way, I am wondering how I should do this. Looking at my finances, I can afford to put $150 away each pay period and still live somewhat normally. Doing this, I noticed that it would take about three years to save enough to cover some of the prices that I have seen to get SRS overseas. I figured that this would be good because it provieds me with plenty of time to consider what I am doing. I want to be able to go full time at the end of the second year since I would have gotten rid of my facial hair and would have been on hormones long enough for them to have smoothed me out a bit.

I am wondering two things, though.

One: Should I opt for the hair removal or hormones first? The hormones seem easier to afford but I am afraid that if they work too well too soon I will be forced to move my time table ahead a bit since I would not yet be ready to go ful time but would be gaining female features. My company is really Transgender friendly and I would be able to transfer (the people I work with now have no idea about me so that would be way too awkward) but there are a few things that I wish to get in order before I try and go full time, not to mention that I need to get rid of this Facial hair first.

The second issue involves getting SRS overseas. I have read of many people who go to Thailand and spend half the money that people do here. When I get it done I plan to do the adam's apple shave as well as breast implants even if it take me longer to save up for it. To any of you that got the procedure done overseas, do you have any input?

By the way, I know that my $150 sounds modest but that is worst case scenario. I do very well at work and will most likely be looking at a promotion before the end of the year. Not to mention that my car will be paid off in two years so money will only free up from here.

Any ideas would be lovely...

Quote from: Kara on June 04, 2007, 09:00:03 PM

I am wondering two things, though.

One: Should I opt for the hair removal or hormones first? The hormones seem easier to afford but I am afraid that if they work too well too soon I will be forced to move my time table ahead a bit since I would not yet be ready to go ful time but would be gaining female features. My company is really Transgender friendly and I would be able to transfer (the people I work with now have no idea about me so that would be way too awkward) but there are a few things that I wish to get in order before I try and go full time, not to mention that I need to get rid of this Facial hair first.

The second issue involves getting SRS overseas. I have read of many people who go to Thailand and spend half the money that people do here. When I get it done I plan to do the adam's apple shave as well as breast implants even if it take me longer to save up for it. To any of you that got the procedure done overseas, do you have any input?

Kara,

Two very good questions and having an affordable plan is good.

Firstly, I think most people here would advocate starting hair removal as early as possible. It does depend on how hairy and what type of hair you have and wether you have laser or electrolysis (as to the cost), but it can be a lengthy process (it took me over two years), but it is well worth making that investment in both time and money to remove the 5 o'clock shadow from the passing equation.

Secondly, surgeons are personal choice and again finances, exchange rates, geographical location, medical requirements, aesthetic requirements all come into the equation. My own personal preference was to go to Thailand, for many of the reasons above for both FFS , SRS and BA. FFS included the majority of normal procedures, including Tracheal shave. Personally I had no problems, no complications and was very satisfied with the standards of care and results that I obtained.

There is plenty of information available both here and on the internet. Many surgeons have web sites and show a full list of procedures, prices and before and after photos. Have a look at these and make a comparison.

Buffy

Wow.  It seems like you need to look into how things work hun.
Hair removal should start as soon as possible.  Facial hair is more of a barrier and call sign that you are trans more than anything else. 
Have you seen a therapist yet or talked to a doctor about HRT.  While hormones are cheap, they are not something you should mess around with on your own.

I really want to move forward aggresively because otherwise I feel like I lost her for nothing.

This is not how you should be entering this.  Honestly, it is best if you have a clear head and put any relationship behind you.

Also with regards to Breast Augmentation.  You should wait for the effects of HRT before even thinking about that.

I think you are a bit confused. This is not something you should rush, or rush into.  Transitioning is not to be taken lightly.  It will literally turn aspects of your life and play havoc with them.  That is why it is a decision that has to be done with certainty and clarity.  Rushing for the wrong reasons will hurt you.

This involves a real life test, hormones, the pain of hair removal, and well emotional havoc. 

Kara,

Save to begin with for facial laser hair removal ... your No 1 priority must be to "pass" as quickly as possible (and surely its afforable out of your monthly salary) ... hrt at maybe $4 / day should be a big priority too and will make you feel sooo much better and more confident.

SRS and surgeries are longer term ... maybe your salary will rise to make it seem more attainable.

There seems no reason why you can't "come out" to your workplace and go "fulltime" well before any surgery.

Wishing you the best of luck ...

Laura x

(P.S. my monthly "savings" from salary exceeds £1500 / $3000, so I really think we are looking at two whole different worlds within these forums, and that its presumptious of me to pretend I understand and can give anybody advice given my situation .... but at least in the UK SRS can be state funded and works with a 2 year waiting list)

The first thing I would suggest is reading up on the women's rights movement to get idea of some of the things you will experience as woman. the HRT, RLT, and GRS are all meaningless unless someone understands where they are going. there really is no set A B C D process to this whole thing. It is just doing what you feel is right for you do at any given point in time. We have all gone through the process with different desires and expectations. It is up to you to choose the path that best fits you but we are always here to guide you along to ensure your safety and sanity remain in good condition.

Thanks for all the replies. First off, I left a sentance out. Though I am motivated to move aggresively to justify everything that has happened, I do nt want to rush into things, hence not planning to even go full time until two years from now. I just have a tendency to stagnate. ( I have been living in my head my entire life, it easy to forget to "Do" as opposed to "thinking") I really have to have this type of additude to get anything done. Stress and deadlines keep me productive in a way.

I have spoken to my therapist about this and no, I would not take any steps without her approval.

To the last person, yes I have read quite a bit. My studies have actually given me a bit of a negative view of the womens movement due to the fact that they not only looked down on Transwomen, but black women as well ( double whammy) I do not hold it against them now and frequent many Femenist blog sites for insight but after coming up as Black male never understood by his own, I have not given much thought to the social aspects as even at 25 my skin is pretty thick at this point.

  I am really self concious and since I work in sales, To companies, not individuals, I wonder if going full time in this position would even be realistic. The idea is to milk it for all it's worth, then transfer to a quiet clerical position and go to school for somthing that I actually care about.

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 04, 2007, 10:07:02 PM
Kara,


(P.S. my monthly "savings" from salary exceeds £1500 / $3000, so I really think we are looking at two whole different worlds within these forums, and that its presumptious of me to pretend I understand and can give anybody advice given my situation .... but at least in the UK SRS can be state funded and works with a 2 year waiting list)

No worries, just motivates me to get to that point.

I was outed as TS last in March 06. In Aug i was starting Premarin and living in my preferred gender role. Sept I had my name legally changed. A little over a year since being outed I have made a lot of progress and none of it was done with the permission of anyone to include my therapist.

According to my "plan" before last March, I wasn't going to even begin any part of this until I turned 30. I was 28 when everything kicked off.

Once you start putting one foot in front of the other, things just happen and before you know it, you are where you want to be.

Quote from: Kara on June 04, 2007, 10:46:40 PM

Thanks for all the replies. First off, I left a sentance out. Though I am motivated to move aggresively to justify everything that has happened, I do nt want to rush into things, hence not planning to even go full time until two years from now. I just have a tendency to stagnate. ( I have been living in my head my entire life, it easy to forget to "Do" as opposed to "thinking") I really have to have this type of additude to get anything done. Stress and deadlines keep me productive in a way.

I have spoken to my therapist about this and no, I would not take any steps without her approval.

To the last person, yes I have read quite a bit. My studies have actually given me a bit of a negative view of the womens movement due to the fact that they not only looked down on Transwomen, but black women as well ( double whammy) I do not hold it against them now and frequent many Femenist blog sites for insight but after coming up as Black male never understood by his own, I have not given much thought to the social aspects as even at 25 my skin is pretty thick at this point.

  I am really self concious and since I work in sales, To companies, not individuals, I wonder if going full time in this position would even be realistic. The idea is to milk it for all it's worth, then transfer to a quiet clerical position and go to school for somthing that I actually care about.

Quote from: Laura Eva B on June 04, 2007, 10:07:02 PM
Kara,


(P.S. my monthly "savings" from salary exceeds £1500 / $3000, so I really think we are looking at two whole different worlds within these forums, and that its presumptious of me to pretend I understand and can give anybody advice given my situation .... but at least in the UK SRS can be state funded and works with a 2 year waiting list)

No worries, just motivates me to get to that point.

This is where I need to point out there is a BIG difference between second wave feminist (those who were derogatory towards trans people) and third wave feminist (those who are largely supportive of trans people).  There are still many trans people out there who do not know the difference.  The third wave feminist have been extremely supportive.  This is from my own experiences. 

There was a huge evolution in the womens movement in the nineties.  Riot Grrls are your friends, and nearly all the feminist blogs are third wave feminists, many like salon's broadsheet are extremely supportive of trans people. 

Does this plan sound realistic?  Yes.  Is it?  Based on personal experience and observation of others, no.  Many of us make plans for an extended transition length (myself included) and due to the dysphoria getting worse once we finally face our problems, we usua;;y find it both unnecessary and unbearable to wait our original plans.  My original plan started with my going fulltime around the beginning of this year.  I ended up going fulltime 6 months earlier.  Hormones did work fast as you are suspecting they will.  I pass VERY well now and many people I interact with don't know I'm TS, but guess what?  I'm not done with facial hair removal.  What I did (and I recoment this to anyone with a mixed color of hair) is I started laser treatments in May of last year and was able to go fulltime 2 months later (after only 2 sessions, but I do have ideal skin for laser).  As the hair got less and less, I noticed I had a mix of blonde hairs in my beard and so I have been switching to doing electrolysis for those now.

The nice thing about laser is that you keep the hair shaved as much as possible.  With electro, you need to let it grow a couple days at least, but if you get rid of the dark hairs first, nobody notices the blonde ones because they blend in with the skin.  I have been transitioning over from laser to electro during the past 2 months (although I am doing both still, since laser is free for me at this point).  Sometimes I forget to shave and I may have a patch here or there of dark hair, but nobody notices that either.  For the most part though, I shave daily due to the fact that I'm a perfectionist.  I'm doing both genital electro (not as bad as one might imagine, although it is quite painful) and facial.  I can get both areas cleared in about an hour now and I'm going every 2 weeks.  Oh, that reminds me, I need to skip shaving the next 2 days.

I guess my point is, as you go along, be prepared to change timelines.  I think just about everyone here who started out being serious about transition has done that.

Any plans will be a shifting target.  It will be very dependant on factors out of your control.
If you are African American though, make sure if you do laser hair removal that they have an ndYAG laser. 

I never made a plan.  I built a series of milestones that I wanted to reach and put them in the order I though best to do them.  I've had to tweak the order now and again and it has worked well for me.

I did it this way because I knew that I didn't know how long things would take, things like accepting myself, coming out, getting the hormone letter, having my spouse accept me, etc.  So it turns out I haven't even started electrolysis yet even though I plan on going FT in September (I had to come up with a date for that to satisfy my company) but I have most all other things in place.

Some people do better with concrete plans but please make sure you realize that the best way to make the Deity laugh is to expect your plans to work as you wrote them.  Don't get too bummed out if things don't work out exactly as you thought they would.

And, one of the best pieces of advice I read about transitioning:  Rush slowly!

hugs & smiles
helen

Thank you all of you.  I really like this place.

You should inform your HR person of your plans to transition, if you plan on transitioning on the job.  There is a right way and wrong way to transitioning in the workplace.  If you get a chance see Jessica McKinnon if she does a trans conference near you.  She has a great presentation called transitioning in the workplace. 

Quote from: Amy T. on June 06, 2007, 01:25:03 AM
You should inform your HR person of your plans to transition, if you plan on transitioning on the job.  There is a right way and wrong way to transitioning in the workplace. 

I think this is very good advice. 

This is what I did and personally it worked for me.  It enabled me to feel officially supported by the company and to then organise a series of meetings in small groups to explain to all of my fellow colleagues about the transition I was going through (we were only about 30 in the company in total, so talking to everyone openly was possible.  Of course in a much larger company, it might just be your own department...).  I know for sure that at least 2 of the girls in my department who'd started to make disparaging comments behind my back were silenced by me doing this; my other colleagues just wouldn't listen to them any more.

Maybe I was just lucky, but I'm sure that doing this helped me the respect and support of everyone at work.

MVER XXX

Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 04, 2007, 10:50:46 PM
Once you start putting one foot in front of the other, things just happen and before you know it, you are where you want to be.

LOL, this is SO true. That's the thing Kara: make plans, but be prepared to toss 'em as soon as you start. Transition tends to take on a life of it's own, dictating what and when to do things. One thing leads to another, everything starts hooking together and pulls you along with the current. Yes, it's prudent to lay out a schedule and all, but I think if I could do this over again, I'd spend FAR more time on the "inner work," as my therapist calls it. Most of transition is about just holding on for the ride, trying to stay sane, riding out the incredible emotional highs and lows you're going to experience.

On a practical note though, I'd vote for hair removal asap. Even laser can take a year+ to get it all. Electrolysis... much longer.

~Kate~

Quote from: Kate on June 07, 2007, 02:58:20 PM

Quote from: Renae Lupini on June 04, 2007, 10:50:46 PM
Once you start putting one foot in front of the other, things just happen and before you know it, you are where you want to be.

Yes, it's prudent to lay out a schedule and all, but I think if I could do this over again, I'd spend FAR more time on the "inner work," as my therapist calls it.

I think that is what made my entire progression so simple on myself and the people in my life. I did on the inner work on myself before I did anything else. In comparison to other's stories, it made the entire process a lot easier to work on the emotional and mental aspects of my life before proceeding to go further. It took a year of solitude and removing myself from the life I was accustomed to. I ended up a much happier and better off person because of it as well.

Kara,

I will tell you the same thing I advise all the new girls.  Get started on your facial hair removal first.  It takes the longest and is one of the most important things for passing that most girls seem to disregard.  Worst case scenario:  you are a guy who doesn't have to shave.

Secondly, get your hormones started.  If you can do both at once, then do it.

Third, open up an aggressive money fund and start putting money in.  You would be surprised how much it can grow in three years.  Maybe talk to an investment person and tell him/her your goals (you don't have to say what the money is for).  I am going to Bangkok in November to Dr Chet and I have budgeted $9k for SRS, airfare, food and lodging.   It will be more than that in three years, so perhaps set a goal of around $12k.    If you want FFS, add another $10k to that goal.

Just to reiterate, it will take at least three years to get your face completely cleared if you go at a normal pace, so get started right away.

Best wishes

Pam

Quote from: Kara on June 04, 2007, 09:00:03 PM
Looking at my finances, I can afford to put $150 away each pay period and still live somewhat normally. Doing this, I noticed that it would take about three years to save enough to cover some of the prices that I have seen to get SRS overseas.

When I was doing electrolysis I was paying $60/hr for two 1 hour sessions a month.  When I was ramping up to get my hormone letter I was paying $100/month for therapy.  You'll probably need to do the same to get your surgery letters.  I'm paying $45/month for my three HRT meds (estrodiol, spironolactone, finasteride).  Soon progesterone will be added to the mix.  If you want to put away $150/month for surgery, that would total up to $415/month, probably more.  If you are really serious about doing this, you should probably forget about the "still live somewhat normally" part.  You're going to need to make some significant sacrifices.  And I don't mean just the girlfriend you left behind.

>>>>I was paying $100/month for therapy.  You'll probably need to do the same to get your surgery letters<<<<

She did mention she was planning on going to Bangkok for her SRS.  If that is the case, there is no need for her to waste money on therapists just to get surgical letters.  All she would need is six months living full time and letters from her hormone doctor.  $100 could pay for almost two hours of electro.

If she is unable to get hormones without a letter, she can probably accomplish that in a few sessions.

BTW, I am not anti-therapist.  I just happen to believe that you should pay for therapy if you NEED therapy.  Not as extortion payments to get a letter.

IMHO

Pam

Quote from: Feral Cat on June 12, 2007, 12:45:23 PM
She did mention she was planning on going to Bangkok for her SRS.  If that is the case, there is no need for her to waste money on therapists just to get surgical letters.  All she would need is six months living full time and letters from her hormone doctor.  $100 could pay for almost two hours of electro.

Assuming all that worked, you have now knocked the price down to $295/month.

My total out-of-pocket so far is something like $8000.  I started assuming that the final price tag would be $45000.