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Hi muuu sorry I don't recall did you start HRT yet? That really helped me with my feelings.

You will never be fully female no matter how many operations you have. It's just never going to happen. You a a transgendered person and by definition that makes you different. Even if you could be totally perfect, it still won't change that simple fact. You have to understand that to truly love yourself you have to accept yourself as you are and whatever way that goes. I went to the operating room 3 times in my transition spaced out over 5 years. It doesn't all happen at once, it just takes time and there is nothing you can do it to make it any faster. You will also end up how you end up. If you look in the mirror and don't think you will end up where you want to be, then stop and go back to living as a guy, because you will never be happy. Is that what you wanted to hear? Or did you want me to say, everything is going to be okay? I just don't know. If you're not happy about transitioning then maybe transitioning is not for you? Transitioning to a new gender role is supped to make one happier and feel better about life not worse. It's a sure sign that it's the wrong road to take. That's just my 2 cents.

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If you feel in your heart and your soul that you are a woman, go for it. Transition, even though you might not ever flawlessly pass. Don't give veto power to the perceptions of total strangers. So you might get read as trans sometimes after you transition. I say, "So what?" At some point, you have to impose your reality on the world, rather than passively allowing the opposite to overwhelm you.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 08, 2013, 02:00:46 PM
Well I am kinda similar and kinda different... for one I agree, wouldn't wanna transition if I didn't think I could end up 100% passable in pretty much any situation, but then my motivation for transitioning is actually more because I have a feminine personality so I want to behave and dress femininely and not have to get a bunch of crap in life because of that... people say you could just do that as a guy, but it's totally different, doing that as a guy takes as much of a thick skin as being out as openly trans.  And it's a different kind of life experience either way.

I mean I want to be seen as feminine, but I don't have any strong fixation on the category of female it's just who I am and it's how I can be myself best.

Oh that is really interesting.  I have always wondered if anybody was like that because I'm exactly the opposite.  I transitioned because I feel female.  My discomfort has always been with my sex and my body, not my gender.  I do think I'm mostly a feminine person, but that would have never motivated transition for me.

Also, gender feels like mostly a social construct to me,  and I guess I just don't exactly understand how anybody could feel like it was their core identity.  It is really interesting to me that you do, even if I don't get it.  Actually, it's probably interesting to me precisely because I don't get it.

When I started my transition, it was mainly because I just could not cope with acting male any more.  I just couldn't keep up the charade, always feeling like I was an actor.  I never had any particular goals in mind and just went with the flow and hoped things would turn out okay.  Seems strange thinking back on it now, but it all worked out well.

Initially I never really thought I'd pass, and I don't think I did.  I was sure I had big shoulders and a very masculine face.  I never really passed that well the few times out the door pre transition.  But over time things changed and I feminized nicely.  Mannerisms came easily.  Confidence came and everything fell into place.  Then as time went by I passed.  About 2 years after starting HRT I was in straight nightclubs being hit on by guys and was one of the girls and employed in a mostly female workplace.

The point is you can't always judge how things will work out at the beginning.  It's an evolution of sorts and takes time, (for most of us anyway).  If I thought solely about passing at the start of my journey I would never have started and would've stewed in my misery.

Muuu you said you don't want to delude yourself but I think you already have and that is your problem.

Quote from: MaidofOrleans on February 08, 2013, 04:41:38 PM
Muuu you said you don't want to delude yourself but I think you already have and that is your problem.

I promised myself I wasn't going to respond to another of Muuu's threads..

Muuu, you seem to have this ideal of what a woman looks like - that's a delusion.. There is no such thing.

And here's the thing, I'm far from that ideal, and yet I pass.. How do I know? I can out myself in the middle of a conversation and find myself surrounded by incredulous looks. Now, that's a bonus, but it's not why I transitioned.. I transitioned because I could no longer live the lie..

Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on February 08, 2013, 05:11:09 PM
I promised myself I wasn't going to respond to another of Muuu's threads..

Muuu, you seem to have this ideal of what a woman looks like - that's a delusion.. There is no such thing.

I think muuu is just young I was kind of the same way once. I thought that it was all about how I looked and I would never pass! Now that I'm older I can see the flaw in that way of thinking.

It sounds like perhaps you would benefit from speaking with an expert in the trans field, ie. a good therapist and bringing these very issues up.
One thing I will say is, 5 months on HRT is sooooooo very much early days, seriously.
Give things time, take it a bit easier on yourself, transitioning is a massive thing to go through both mentally and physically.
Things really started to change for me in a very noticeable quite a bit after 5 months, its different for everyone.
That and I seriously thought for so many reasons I would never ever pass or even look remotely like a woman.
Like I said things take time and its different for everyone.
I guess for me, it wasn't a choice in the end, either I transitioned or I would not be here, it was that simple.
I was also totally prepared to never pass and be a rather obvious trans person, better that than being a man though.
If you want to see how much transition changed me just take a look at the "Before and after" thread, its only been 1 year and 2 months for me.

Jay-Bird

Quote from: Jen on February 08, 2013, 03:53:32 PM
Oh that is really interesting.  I have always wondered if anybody was like that because I'm exactly the opposite.  I transitioned because I feel female.  My discomfort has always been with my sex and my body, not my gender.  I do think I'm mostly a feminine person, but that would have never motivated transition for me.

Also, gender feels like mostly a social construct to me,  and I guess I just don't exactly understand how anybody could feel like it was their core identity.  It is really interesting to me that you do, even if I don't get it.  Actually, it's probably interesting to me precisely because I don't get it.

ahh yes, the wonderful feeling when i read something that reflects my experience.

i can't fathom transitioning due to being feminine/masculine/whatever.  i don't identify as a girl, woman, female, or anything, and i don't particularly feel like i AM any of those, nor do i feel some sort of internal push to adopt those labels.  i was always uncomfortable with my body first and foremost, and i felt like the terms of address mostly came along for the ride.

i still don't understand gender, and i don't think i ever will.  but, like jen, i think it's fascinating that there are a bunch of people out there who feel so strongly about its existence and about its impact on their lives.

Quote from: muuu on February 08, 2013, 02:30:11 PM
I have to transition, I don't and have never seen any value in living as male, so there isn't really any other options.

You got yourself quite the conundrum here. First you say you cannot transition if you aren't 100% passable in any and every situation. Yet, "you have to transition"?

For most of us that come to point of saying "I HAVE TO transition" there usually aren't any conditions attached. Besides the I have to try it, or suicide condition. While I haven't gotten to that Have To point myself, just about every full-time fully transitioned TS I know was. As in all things human some pass better than others. Some I'd give not at all just as some I'd rate at "Are you kidding me! You are really a...?"

The one other common trait shared is they are far far happier, even with their faults. Even not being perfect.

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Quote from: muuu on February 08, 2013, 07:54:26 PM

Maybe, so far I've barely noticed any changes (thinner skin and slight breast growth). Though, I think I'm genetically unlucky when it comes to fat distribution, so there really isn't that much I can get from HRT.

I've seen you talk about weight in other treads. Muuu if you want breast a butt and all that other stuff your going to have to eat!

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Quote from: muuu on February 08, 2013, 08:24:19 PM
I actually don't want breasts that much, so I'm not very concerned about them. I guess I could use a little more butt, but what's important is hip width.... which is very unlikely to get.
Besides, if fat redistribution is going to stay mostly the same, then I don't see how it would help. I am about 5'8 and 123lbs, so I am at a reasonable weight, and anything since I was 119lbs (first measuring after gain) have gone to my stomach/arms (my butt/hips haven't changed at all).

5'8 123 is under weight I'm 6'1 185 and my family has accused me of being anorexic. I don't know if they'll say that for much longer since I started hormones my appetite as gone through the roof.

Don't know if this will help but... Let me start by saying that I probably live in one of the most closed minded, conservative , trans unfriendly states in the US (Tn). I know I don't pass 100% all the time and my voice is far far from perfect. That being said 99.9% of the people that you come across in day to day life really do not give a flip.Most people are just too busy with their own lives and their own problem's to worry if your nose is little off or if your feet or hands are little bigger or just what ever you think is outing you. If their brain say's female at first glance that's usually all they see.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 08, 2013, 07:49:21 PM
I guess I don't talk about it a lot because a lot of the assumptions in the trans community are kinda loaded?  Practically everyone says that all the time here, that gender is a social construct and sometimes it seems like they say that only 'cuz they want it to be, just saying.  It's not really fair to say men or women are only masculine or feminine because they're raised that way when ... well... a lot of us were raised to be masculine and turned out feminine, or the other way around.  I don't know.. it can make me feel pretty written off.  But that's a can of worms I refuse to open again

Well just personally, I don't know what's so great about being male or female if you didn't have much in common with men or women, and if it's a terrible experience trying to be yourself when everybody thinks you're something different, I don't think anyone would like that...  I guess it's kind of confusing because I do want to look female anyway, but that's because not only do I happen to look pretty female in the first place, the way I like to look is the way women happen to be, and the clothes I happen to like are the clothes that happen to be made for women.  It's not actually about my body though...

Anyway, sorry to distract the thread, I guess?  This is kind of on topic maybe...

I think I mean I think gender is a social construct in the sense that how many of the traits that society deemed to be female oriented, aka feminine, were assigned that way to put women in their place?  I mean I don't know the answer to that, but I can't help but feel like a lot of them were.

I was raised to be masculine and turned out to be pretty feminine too, and I don't understand men at all, and also I turned out to be trans, so what does that mean? I don't know.  I just don't feel like my femininity would have ever made me transition.  It's a discomfort with my body.  The sense that I am a woman not a man, and could never be man even of I wanted to.  I know this because I tried.   Didn't work.  Expressing my femininity in the male role didn't do a thing for my dysphoria either.

I don't mean to invalidate your feelings in the least.  I just found them to be intriguing just cause they seem to be different from mine.  That doesn't make them any more or less valid than mine.

Quote from: kountrygurl on February 08, 2013, 08:36:03 PM
Don't know if this will help but... Let me start by saying that I probably live in one of the most closed minded, conservative , trans unfriendly states in the US (Tn). I know I don't pass 100% all the time and my voice is far far from perfect. That being said 99.9% of the people that you come across in day to day life really do not give a flip.Most people are just too busy with their own lives and their own problem's to worry if your nose is little off or if your feet or hands are little bigger or just what ever you think is outing you. If their brain say's female at first glance that's usually all they see.

Hey I live just south of you in GA and can say I haven't had any problems ether. But you are right people generally don't give a flip about you. They may stare but you get used to that.