Quote from: Heather on February 08, 2013, 08:34:51 PM
5'8 123 is under weight I'm 6'1 185 and my family has accused me of being anorexic. I don't know if they'll say that for much longer since I started hormones my appetite as gone through the roof.

I am 6ft and even at 145 lbs I have enough extra flab jiggling around for another almost another person.

Quote from: JoanneB on February 08, 2013, 09:43:42 PM
I am 6ft and even at 145 lbs I have enough extra flab jiggling around for another almost another person.

I still got a lot of muscle mass I'm hoping hrt will take care of that. If I lose all that I probably be about 145.

I understand what you are saying Muuu.  I too have a very high bar for passing that I set for myself.  I personally don't feel I have met it, but I do pass and even if I am not completely satisfied with the way I look at this point I will say that living as my true self is 1000x better than living as something I'm not.

I will also say I had no idea how I would turn out or if I would be passable when I started hormones. I personally thought I wouldn't pass, just like you. But guess what? I do. I go out all the time and pass and no one treats me as anything but female.

Muuu, you are very young (if I remember correctly).  I let the fear of transitioning and not passing hold me back for many, many years. I very much regret that now. You may feel you can live with not transitioning now, but the years will eat away at your resolve and then you will be faced with the same situation that many of us have faced.  You either transition or you don't go on.  Don't waste your youth putting on a shell because your worried about what someone else thinks about you.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 08, 2013, 11:32:24 PM
I am not really sure there's even a big difference in what we think?

Yeah maybe so.  It's kinda interesting that how we frame something in our minds can be affected by so many factors that don't even seem related.

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I know at the end of the day everybody has their own reason to transition though, not trying to invalidate any of them... including OP, the major goal is to be happy and it is your job to define that for yourself.

Yeah, totally.

As recently as last night I asked myself why I am transitioning, to me the answer came quite fast when I asked myself what the alternative were, there wasen't one.

As to what my goal is as I transition / after I transition, to me it's fairly simple, to live as a woman, the woman that I really am. Passing for me is far from a primary goal, to me that is something that I hope will come with time, and judging how people see me, I say that I'm doing good and things will only get better.

I never had much in the way of physical dysphoria though, in fact there was only one part of my body that I really hate and want to see gone because now it's a constant source of anxiety. But I'm comfortable with my body, I was (mostly) comfortable with my body before I started HRT aswell, it was not the body I prefered but I did not hate it.

Just having that feeling made me question starting HRT at all, and it took me weeks if not months before I decided that even though I don't hate the body I got, by starting HRT I will like my body more, I will feel better, be happier. For many reasons, few of them having to do with how my body would look, it would help others see me as a woman and that in itself would make me much more happy then what body I had. And looking back I can only say that I made the right choise, I have never been more happy, more glowing, never before have I felt life feeling so right.

For me SRS is something that is coming up, and even if it is three months before I even get the papers I need to go through with it, and it's looking like I'll have SRS this fall at the earliest, or more likely winter, I have already been spending most of my freetime looking into this, not just looking up information but really asking myself "why?", "do I need this?", "is this right for me?", "is this right for me, now?".

If you're having doubts about transitioning my advice would be to slow down and think about it, really think about it, ask yourself honest questions. At several points during my transition and before I questioned myself, I've questioned myself many times, and each time I've taken these doubts serious. Even if each and everything the answer has come back the same; "Yes, what I'm doing is right for me.". Transitioning, even if seen as something you "have to do" if you're trans* is something very big and serious and needs serious consideration, even if you think you know the answer, confirm it with yourself.

Quote from: Heather on February 08, 2013, 08:34:51 PM
5'8 123 is under weight I'm 6'1 185 and my family has accused me of being anorexic. I don't know if they'll say that for much longer since I started hormones my appetite as gone through the roof.

Just to be precise about weight - which is really important, because there are serious health issues involved - someone who is 5'8" tall and weighs 123lbs has a Body Mass Index of 18.9, which is thin, in fact borderline underweight, but still (just) within healthy limits. You wouldn't want to get much lower than that, but it's not unhealthy.

Someone who is 6'1" tall with a weight of 185lbs has a Body mass Index of 24.41, which is also within the healthy range, but pretty close to the top of it. At that height/weight there's no reason whatever to be concerned, but one would want to start taking care of diet and exercise to prevent any greater weight gain. So it is a very, very, very long way from anorexic. You'd need to be below 135lbs and heading downwards, with associated signs including depression, body dysmorphia, irrational tantrums, lying about food intake, unhealthy eating patters (e.g.. binge/purge) before doctors would get seriously concerned about anorexia.

Buy way of comparison, really serious anorexics, in imminent danger of organ failure or death can be, say, 5'6" tall and get as low as 70lbs. Both you girls are a long, long way from that. Thank God.

Quote from: Carlita on February 09, 2013, 04:03:38 AM
Just to be precise about weight - which is really important, because there are serious health issues involved - someone who is 5'8" tall and weighs 123lbs has a Body Mass Index of 18.9, which is thin, in fact borderline underweight, but still (just) within healthy limits. You wouldn't want to get much lower than that, but it's not unhealthy.

Someone who is 6'1" tall with a weight of 185lbs has a Body mass Index of 24.41, which is also within the healthy range, but pretty close to the top of it. At that height/weight there's no reason whatever to be concerned, but one would want to start taking care of diet and exercise to prevent any greater weight gain. So it is a very, very, very long way from anorexic. You'd need to be below 135lbs and heading downwards, with associated signs including depression, body dysmorphia, irrational tantrums, lying about food intake, unhealthy eating patters (e.g.. binge/purge) before doctors would get seriously concerned about anorexia.

Buy way of comparison, really serious anorexics, in imminent danger of organ failure or death can be, say, 5'6" tall and get as low as 70lbs. Both you girls are a long, long way from that. Thank God.

Ok, ok I have to jump on this because weight issues have me wondering something.

Do celebrities and models lie about their weight?  I seriously think so.  I am 5'10 and weigh 155 lbs.  Most people call me things like "slim" or "skinny."  So how in the world can people like Adriana Lima be 112 lbs as she reports and look as good as she does?  The times I have gone under 140 lbs I seriously start looking emaciated, and people comment that I look sickly. I don't understand it. How can two people of the exact same height both look skinny and have such a weight difference?  Even if Adriana* was lying and weighed 125 lbs I can't imagine myself ever being able to get that skinny and look good.

Do you think it possibly has to do with build size. I am probably a medium build so is she a small?

*Note I am just using Adriana as an example, there are plenty of other girls of 5'10 that report similar weight.

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You have to remember what one person finds pretty or ugly is not the same as what the next person finds pretty or ugly. You just have to remember every woman in the world has flaws even all these " super models" or what your calling " the pretty girls outside". I would be willing to bet every one of them would change something about how they look.

Quote from: kountrygurl on February 09, 2013, 02:23:21 PM
You have to remember what one person finds pretty or ugly is not the same as what the next person finds pretty or ugly. You just have to remember every woman in the world has flaws even all these " super models" or what your calling " the pretty girls outside". I would be willing to bet every one of them would change something about how they look.

i think i get what muuu's saying though.  the fact of the matter is that we have these suffocating standards of beauty that EVERYONE who is female is supposed to live up to.  and like, that's especially unfair to trans women because a lot of these things are things that statistically speaking show up mostly on cis women.  like the whole hips thing.  so it's like one thing thinking "oh, this one part of my body doesn't look how i wish it did", it's frequently like several of them at the same time, and it goes beyond things that society at large sees as unattractive, it's frequently stuff that on a woman is perceived as FREAKISH.  beard shadow?  freakish.  deep voice?  freakish.  broad shoulders?  freakish.  large hands?  freakish.

cis women don't get that to nearly the same degree as trans women do.  so to compare trans women's travails with cisnormative standards of beauty to cis women's is pretty unfair to the trans women.

I can understand the desire to pass 100%. But being beautiful? If you're even moderately attractive, women give you an attitude men talk to you like they're zombified. The men that don't talk to you like they're zombified have a girlfriend and don't want to hear your opinion on anything. At least if you don't pass that well, women treat you sweetly and don't automatically have a b-word complex against you. Men might look at you a lil crooked though, but at least they will value your opinion a little more!

Worrying about passing, however, before you've even had a chance to try is just pointless. Also, those high standards you set for yourself are going to be pointless in a few years when 1) you don't care what others think of you, and 2) you're not in that "OMG YOU'RE A BEAUTIFUL HOT GIRL!" age range anymore. But have fun living in your no win situation!

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Quote from: muuu on February 09, 2013, 06:58:38 PM
if people are going to have a bitchy attitude or people not listening... that doesn't matter at all. If I'm treated well for being a male who's into weird clothing and hair... wtf? That means I don't pass, and I'm not treated as a girl at all.
I rather get treated badly while being happy with myself than being treated well while hating myself.

I was trying to give you a little bit of positive spin. But I keep forgetting you always look at the negative and the worst case scenario.

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Quote from: muuu on February 09, 2013, 11:44:38 PM
Anyway... This isn't really a body image issue, nothing is imagined. Basically I'm deformed, I can imagine and delude myself however much I want, it's still not going to change anything.
(I'm not deformed as male, but if I had been female I would be deformed, or at least be a very be abnormal development)

I know what I look like, I know how things are, and I'm not looking for pity or make others feel bad.
I don't want to hear lies and I don't want to hear the truth either. There isn't anything to talk about, there isn't any thing that can help or change anything, and I don't want to delude myself. The only way to avoid these things are by not talking, but I'll still think about it and everything will still be there, everything will still be real.
I think I wanted there to be something to figure out, just there to be something, but there isn't, there is nothing. This is how things are, there isn't anything hidden, this is reality.

Maybe you should post a picture on here, I feel like your emotions are deluding your perception of yourself.

Hey Muuu,

Here's the thing. I don't know anything about you: age/looks/mental disposition, anything, so I'll try to relate to you though me.

I was living as a male for 35yrs before transition. I'm 37 in what? 3 months....gezz. The point I am making is that I WAS LIVING AS A MALE FOR 35 YEARS!!
The fact of the matter is I'm not going to overturn social and my own conditioning of seeing a male in that mirror for the last, lets say 30 years in a snap. It's going to take time.

Transition isn't just a physical thing. It's mental transition as well. Here's the great thing about transitioning though..... you don't know if you'll pass. You truly don't.  And the only way to find out? ...Is to transition.
I will say this in my limited exposure to trans groups that I've attended. Everyone commented on how quickly they passed. I felt the the same.

It actually took strangers on the street "'there you go sweetheart". Attendants at cafes "I'll put extra pumpkin on that for your darling" and all this in "guy mode"?
It really shocked me. It truly did. It was amazing that .. here I was at 36, taking hormones to become a woman, not feeling like a woman at all, and strangers in the public were telling me what I wanted to hear, but I didn't believe it because in my own mindset, when I looked in the mirror.... I'm male.

In psychological terms it called "conditional perspective". You only see what you feel. A bit like the pink elephants syndrome yeah?

Muuu, in closing, I believe that you are looking at this from only a physical point of view. Let's say your paranoia is correct and you'll never truly pass as female. Thing is that you'll only every know, truly, after about the two year mark. In the whole two years while transitioning, think about all the hardship, stress and determination it will take you to get there. You'll be a totally different person. I'd imagine by that time you'll have the strength, courage and more determination to not actually be worried any more and learn to talk to others that mirror your own self image and mindset and forget those who don't.

I guess really sweetie, the short answer: You just have to weather the storm.... and do it anyway.

Best wishes on your travels ,

Love,

Jenny

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