I know what I am about to say is not 'nice' or 'supportive'. But it is of important concern to our community - something we must deal with.
The trans community is already small enough as it is. Now, some 'elitist' post-ops would like to separate from the rest of the community. They constantly put down non-op transgenders, crossdressers, and other trans people who support their rights. This split will set us back many years clearly.
The fact is that we are viewed as one and the same. United we stand, divided we fall. Therefore, let's not have these arguments, sub-groups and splits.

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 13, 2013, 11:02:39 PM
I must be missing something who are these people?

If people just move on with their life... well that's the point of transition...

They are not the people who just move on with their life, like the rest of us do.

They are those who, after surgery, still talk extensively regarding trans issues on the internet, but often attacking non-ops, long term pre-ops and crossdressers, and almost uniformly oppose rights to alter documentation for these people. They seem intent on making the life of these aforementioned people very hard.

You may not have heard of them if you only go to places like here, which do not feature much controversy. But trust me, they are out there.

You can't force somebody to be part of the community if they don't want to be. Yeah they might think there better than the rest of the community. But who really cares? I don't really care whether they had the op or not. If somebody thinks their better than me because they could afford an op. Oh well! Stuff like that don't bother me because as muuu said there masking their on insecurity's. That's their problem not mine.

Quote from: Heather on February 13, 2013, 11:40:55 PM
You can't force somebody to be part of the community if they don't want to be. Yeah they might think there better than the rest of the community. But who really cares? I don't really care whether they had the op or not. If somebody thinks their better than me because they could afford an op. Oh well! Stuff like that don't bother me because as muuu said there masking their on insecurity's. That's their problem not mine.

But their words will tear our community apart! It will affect the standing of the whole community politically, for example. Gay and lesbian people have been able to get increasing rights because of unity - some 90% of them all agree to the marriage equality movement for example. Our community is going the opposite way, becoming fractured. Our needs will be ignored by the politicians for another many decades then.

Quote from: Trans Truth on February 14, 2013, 12:03:55 AM
But their words will tear our community apart! It will affect the standing of the whole community politically, for example. Gay and lesbian people have been able to get increasing rights because of unity - some 90% of them all agree to the marriage equality movement for example. Our community is going the opposite way, becoming fractured. Our needs will be ignored by the politicians for another many decades then.

I don't think there is that many of them to cause that big a problem. If there was no internet you probably would have known such people exist. The internet just gives them the forum to run their mouths. Because they have nothing going on with their on lives so they put other people down. You say 90% of gays are in agreement over marriage equality. But what about the ten percent who don't agree? Are they tearing down the whole gay rights movement? And I don't think a few snobs will tear down the trans movement.

I will post a warning here. And I shall lock this thread if it gets out of hand.

We have had problems in the past with people from various view points of how they fit into being members of the community.

Susan's is an inclusive site for all people "to provide peer support and discussion of issues related to gender and may include Transsexualism, Transvestism, Crossdressing, or other related topics. This web site exists to offer constructive input and support."

(From Susan's announcement page.

ToS #10 specifically mentions that there is "no advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella, or suggesting that any segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate or deserving, or more real than others."

People move on and people join. Post op men and woman are very welcome as are pre op men and woman, and everywhere in between.

If groups find that their feelings or opinions are better served in other sites they are very welcome to join them.


Cindy James

Global Moderator.

Quote from: Cindy James on February 14, 2013, 01:30:48 AM
People move on and people join. Post op men and woman are very welcome as are pre op men and woman, and everywhere in between.

Quoted for truth. The labels trans* and any gender identity are self applied, if one does not want the label then don't use it. Not allowing others to use the label of their choice is counterproductive at best and harmful at worst because of invalidation.

The bad thing about the written word is that it can be interpreted in numerous ways to fit ones own agenda. These men and women just want to identified as men and women not just as a trans anything. Parapharsing a post by Rita, who has posted numerous times at this site, we are women fixing what nature didn't get right. She wasn't being exclusionary just telling it like it is. I can't claim to be a crossdresser because I am not. I am just a women dealing with nature at its cruelist. You are who you are labels aside. Martin Luther King said it best, paraphrased abit here, judge a person not by the physical appearence but by the quality of their character. Something we all should abide here. Stay cool and pass on the positive, not just the negative. Use your words wisely.

I think it it is easy to see why post-ops, post-full-timers, post-part-timers, post I saw a gender therapisters, post I told_____ can feel they found a better way. Also in a way they are saying It Gets Better.

Ultimately it is a very personal decision the How, When, Where, etc.. portions of dealing with GD. THere is no one size fits all solution just as we all do not fall neatly into various catagories along the behavioral spectrum

this topic has been toxic in the past and no good can come of it

I am imploring you folks to not participate in this thread.

Quote from: cynthialee on February 15, 2013, 05:45:45 PM
this topic has been toxic in the past and no good can come of it

I am imploring you folks to not participate in this thread.

Agreed. I think it's best to lock it. Not your fault, Trans Truth. Just a very divisive subject.