I was brought up to make my own mind up about religion. I chose Christianity. I respect any religion, I feel that people shouldn't push their views on anyone else. Treat people how you want to be treated. I stopped being a Christian around age 13 when a lot of bad stuff happened. I'm not making excuses, but after everything that happened to me and the amount of pain I mentally suffered and still am suffering, I think, how can there be a God? I prayed to Him. I prayed to make things better but nothing changed. I don't want to disrespect anyone in this post, it is never my intention. I just feel like I really trusted God, and he let me down. I felt betrayed in a way, I'd grown up to pray to Him and believe in the Christian way of life yet I was repayed by all the bad stuff that happened.

There's a quote in the Bible, 2 Timothy 1:12 which reads, 'That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day.' Even though I'm not religious anymore, that quote stands out so much to me and I feel as if it really touches with something inside me. Despite the suffering I feel, something is keeping me here. Somebody is protecting me. Is it God? I don't know. I want to believe in God. I really do. I want to be able to talk to him, explain my worries, refer to the Bible for guidance. I just don't want to feel betrayed again. I'm not a bad person, and it makes me sad to think that I will go to hell just because I don't believe. I really want to talk to a priest or vicar about this, but I am too scared to step foot in a church, in case of refusal for who I am or in case I upset their feelings for being athiest at the moment.

Joey

Have you read Betty Smith's "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn"? If not, I highly recommend it.

I think there's a part of the book you could really relate to. Just after the father dies, Fanny and her brother Neely and sitting on the sidewalk and Fanny says that she doesn't understand God and even hates him, but that she'll always love Jesus because he was human once and understand our feelings and needs. I thought that was a really powerful part of the book, because I think that's how a lot of people who were raised Christian feel at some points in their lives.

I wouldn't  be too worried about being refused from a church, because if they refuse you due to your identity, then it's not a church you would want to go to anyways. I think you can still be religious and trans, you might just need to look around and find out what's right for you.

I hope Annah replies to your post, because she's really knowledgeable about this topic and always offers good advice on religious topics.

I haven't read it no. I'll see if I can find it online or borrow it from a library. I'm not even sure I believe in Jesus though. I find it all a bit too far fetched to grasp. I have so many questions.

That's what I was thinking about the church thing. There's one at the top of my road like literally ten seconds away and they all know me there as its the one I used to go to at the time. I haven't been there for years though and I'm not sure what everyone would think. It would seriously hurt my feelings if they didn't accept it, it would make them the type of people I never thought they would be.

Joey

Quote from: Joey4 on February 14, 2013, 07:36:05 PM
I haven't read it no. I'll see if I can find it online or borrow it from a library. I'm not even sure I believe in Jesus though. I find it all a bit too far fetched to grasp. I have so many questions.

That's what I was thinking about the church thing. There's one at the top of my road like literally ten seconds away and they all know me there as its the one I used to go to at the time. I haven't been there for years though and I'm not sure what everyone would think. It would seriously hurt my feelings if they didn't accept it, it would make them the type of people I never thought they would be.

Joey

Is G-d stirring your soul? what questions do you have?

I don't quite believe in the whole Jesus thing either, but I certainly love the little image of what I think Jesus is in my head. What's more awesome than a hippie dying for you? lol. 

I'd go if that's what you think would be helpful, and ask all of your questions that's on your mind. If you still don't like the asnwers or don't feel accepted, there's plenty of other options available to you. I am not Christian (I am thinking of becoming Sikh), so I am not sure if I should even be posting much in this board, but I think it's very healthy to have questions and to take your time exploring your own thoughts and feelings on God, creation, etc. I am certainly glad I stopped going to church and spent quite a number of years exploring different things, because now I feel much more comfortable in my views on religion and life. I think God values highly people who come to him on their own from their own struggles and explorations rather than people who just believe X because someone told them to.

Why do we go to hell just because we don't believe in God? You can be the nicest person in the world but still go to hell. Why did all the bad stuff happen to me if there was a God? Why didn't he answer my prayers? What about dinosaurs? Why does he still make me suffer? Why do the bad people always win? How did Jesus come back from the dead?

Joey

Though I haven't read the Bible cover to cover, I've heard that the hell thing isn't actually really in there.... though I could be wrong....

My pastor said that because God said humans have the roam of the Earth that we killed the dinosaurs.

I'll let Christians answer your other questions since this is their board, but I'll be happy to give you my views if you're interested elsewhere.

Well, the question is why do you feel that you need God?

If you can't believe in the idea, then there's no point in trying. You can't force yourself to believe in something. That's simply you deluding yourself. Find another religion or model to live by, if possible.

When I had him before I felt happier, but then again that was because I had nothing to worry about at that point. Even though I feel betrayed by him, I feel like I'm betraying him if I don't believe in him. But how can I betray something that I don't even believe exists? I think I have this inner conflict with myself and God. I can't believe in him because I just can't, but somehow I can't let go of the faith I had in him before. I know this isn't making sense, it isn't making sense to me either.

Joey

You don't need God. You can live and enjoy your time on Earth as a person, and not a subject of a religion.

Heck, if anything, I find inspiration from Batman. A kid watches his parents get shot, then uses his wealth to do something other than sulk by finding the initiative to learn all sorts of sciences, languages, and martial arts in order to combat the crime that led to his parents' demise, all without resorting to murder. Not to mention that Batman has no special powers. The entire point of him is that anyone can be the man behind the mask. Anyone can rise up to do something good with his/her life and make a significant difference if driven enough.

See? (Geez, I read too many comic books)

Quote from: Joey4 on February 14, 2013, 06:55:20 PM
I was brought up to make my own mind up about religion. I chose Christianity. I respect any religion, I feel that people shouldn't push their views on anyone else. Treat people how you want to be treated. I stopped being a Christian around age 13 when a lot of bad stuff happened. I'm not making excuses, but after everything that happened to me and the amount of pain I mentally suffered and still am suffering, I think, how can there be a God? I prayed to Him. I prayed to make things better but nothing changed. I don't want to disrespect anyone in this post, it is never my intention. I just feel like I really trusted God, and he let me down. I felt betrayed in a way, I'd grown up to pray to Him and believe in the Christian way of life yet I was repayed by all the bad stuff that happened.

There's a quote in the Bible, 2 Timothy 1:12 which reads, 'That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day.' Even though I'm not religious anymore, that quote stands out so much to me and I feel as if it really touches with something inside me. Despite the suffering I feel, something is keeping me here. Somebody is protecting me. Is it God? I don't know. I want to believe in God. I really do. I want to be able to talk to him, explain my worries, refer to the Bible for guidance. I just don't want to feel betrayed again. I'm not a bad person, and it makes me sad to think that I will go to hell just because I don't believe. I really want to talk to a priest or vicar about this, but I am too scared to step foot in a church, in case of refusal for who I am or in case I upset their feelings for being athiest at the moment.

Joey

Personally I don't believe that any religion is "absolute truth", I believe that every religion has part of the truth. I don't ascribe to be part of any religion, but if I had to put myself into a type of Christianity I would be Gnostic; in saying that I would also be Buddhist, Pagan, Luciferian, Wiccan, and druid.

So to sum up what I have said relating to myself, I believe in the creed "Believe in whatever benefits both you and others the most". If it doesn't work for you, throw it away; but just remember you always have the option to come back to it.

If you want to you can PM me and we can talk, I've had a lot of experience in religious questioning. I promise I won't force you into any direction.

-Skye

That's an interesting point Diana, thanks. I've never seen batman but it sounds pretty cool haha.

Thanks Skye, that makes a lot of sense. Cheers for the offer.

Joey

I appreciate that everyone has their opinions about whatever religion "works best for them."  Susan's is indeed a place to discuss ideas and opportunities that encourage us in our journeys, whether trans related or not.  Since you posted this in the Christianity sub-forum, perhaps our answers should tend towards that direction?  If you're looking for a "choose-your-own-adventure" answer, perhaps asking this in the general Spirituality sub-forum would be better?  Since we're here, maybe we could look at it from a Christian perspective?

I just finished teaching our teens from the book of Job.  I know, I know...whenever someone speaks of suffering, Job is mentioned.  But please, hear me out. 

It is true that God allowed Job to suffer immensely.  To me, that doesn't seem fair to Job at all.  But as I read the rest of the book, I find that my understanding of what's fair and right isn't the same as God's understanding.

One of the most missed applications of the story of Job is that God wants us to submit to Him.  Our post-modern culture (both American and European) rejects or questions authority, and so we struggle the most when authority demands of us or allows things to happen that we don't agree with.

And that brings us to suffering.  We would agree to "let" God bring suffering to us if we could just see the reason for it.  But when we realize that we really don't have a choice in the matter, that God will do what God is going to do, that's where many folks decide to reject God because He doesn't follow our rules. 

Paul said things like "I die daily," and "I am crucified with Christ;" he speaks of persecutions and sufferings that he knows aren't fair.  Yet he still follows Jesus Christ.  He struggles ("the things I would not, that I do"), but he still follows.  It was suggested to Job that he "curse God, and die."  He responded to his loving wife, who was most likely responding because she herself was mad at God for doing this to her husband, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"  Lots of people like to curse and reject God because things happen that hurt them deeply, but Job didn't.

You know, in the long run, everyone will submit to Jesus Christ anyway, so why not do it now?  "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow...and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." 

It's funny...people get mad at God and choose to follow some other religion, thinking that doing so either gets back at God or will make their life easier, or that maybe some other deity will make them "happy".  But the truth is that crap happens to everybody, no matter who they worship.  While I don't claim to have all the answers and all the reasons why crap happens, I trust the God that allows crap.  I trust that He has a good reason for it, even if I don't understand or agree. 

Of course, everyone has to make their own decision.  But nobody gets to choose their crap (unless they make it themselves).

Quote from: Joey4 on February 14, 2013, 08:14:17 PM
I've never seen batman but it sounds pretty cool haha.

Joey

Batman is a necessary step on any journey. My younger brother had batman boxers (way too big) that he'd wear as shorts every single day no matter the weather, you def need to check him out.

And old school batman is hilarious and will def lift your spirits:

Quote from: Incarnadine on February 14, 2013, 08:48:08 PM

One of the most missed applications of the story of Job is that God wants us to submit to Him.  Our post-modern culture (both American and European) rejects or questions authority, and so we struggle the most when authority demands of us or allows things to happen that we don't agree with.

And that brings us to suffering.  We would agree to "let" God bring suffering to us if we could just see the reason for it.  But when we realize that we really don't have a choice in the matter, that God will do what God is going to do, that's where many folks decide to reject God because He doesn't follow our rules. 

Paul said things like "I die daily," and "I am crucified with Christ;" he speaks of persecutions and sufferings that he knows aren't fair.  Yet he still follows Jesus Christ.  He struggles ("the things I would not, that I do"), but he still follows.  It was suggested to Job that he "curse God, and die."  He responded to his loving wife, who was most likely responding because she herself was mad at God for doing this to her husband, "Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?"  Lots of people like to curse and reject God because things happen that hurt them deeply, but Job didn't.

Nice point on Job, most people forget that part of the lesson.

Hope you guys don't mind that I posted here. 

Oh my gosh, that phone! What is he, a powerpuff girl? 

Anyway, find whatever works for you. It doesn't have to be God. I believe that the universe just happened spontaneously. It's the only solution that makes sense.

Evil does not usually happen spontaneously though, its usually the cold and calculating villains that Batman has to deal with that are the most challenging.

While I agree with all posted about Job and faith (the substance of things not seen) I also believe it manifests true faith and true love when things happen that the Lord could stop or change and doesn't.
It's easy to love the Lord in the good times.
It's easy to believe the Lord exists when a miracle happens.
It's harder when things go wrong and he doesn't intervene.

Hang in there man.

May God bless.

Quote from: Joey4 on February 14, 2013, 07:48:53 PM

1) Why do we go to hell just because we don't believe in God? You can be the nicest person in the world but still go to hell. 2) Why did all the bad stuff happen to me if there was a God? 3) Why didn't he answer my prayers? 4) What about dinosaurs? 5) Why does he still make me suffer? 6) Why do the bad people always win? 7) How did Jesus come back from the dead?
Joey

1) We do not go to hell because you do not believe in G-d. When you -or anybody else- dies, you will see G-d, then almost instantly you will see how your actions or lack of action impacted other people lives, no judgment, you will see them all: the good, the bad, and the ugly. The, you will have at that time the option of either joining G-d or keeping yourself away from G-d, that is you decision. There is no hell, there is just a separation from G-d.

2) and 4) and 5)  "bad" things, including "suffering," happens to you and to the rest of the universe. The plan of G-d for the Universe is to unfold itself according to G-d rules to at some time reach an "Omega Point." "bad" thing happen in the Universe because certain things happen by random events. Nothing is predestined. The only goal in the plan is just the inexorable march towards the omega point, how and what happens while we get to the omega point is governed by the laws of the universe, which include randomness, and by the direct choice (read "free will") of intelligent creatures. In the case of our dinosaurs, first some of them live to this day very happily indeed, we call them birds. But just exemplify, the nature of random events in the Universe, let me tell you what happened to the Dinos. So, about 64 millions years ago, a nearby star went supernova, part of the "wind" produced by the exploding star happened to blow in our direction. The ind nudge an asteroid out of it orbit and caused the asteroid to plunge towards causing the extinction of the Dinos. Now, just across the great void (between our arm of the galaxy an the neighboring arm) there is a planet much like earth who started to evolve just about the same time as ours. There the Dinos did not get wiped out and the mammal's never emerged. The current intelligent being in that planet are bipedal dinosaurs (and parenthetically more advance than us, and extremely xenophobic, but that is another story). So, the nudging of the steroid, like the whorls on your fingerprints, or the "colic" of your head hair, are but random events.

3) Perhaps G-d answer your prayers but you cannot 'hear" or "see" G-d responses; this is a common thing to humans. Or, you may be asking G-d to do things that are contrary to G-d rule of the universe, like asking G-d to move back time and make you be born in the anatomically correct body, right?

6) Do they? Just wait and live for a while and you will see how these ;'winners" life turn out to be...not very happy..and when they die their bad actions and lack of remorse prevents them from seeing the glory of G-d.

7) As I am not a Christian, I do not believe Jesus resurrected. I do believe however that Jesus like all of us was divine.


Hope this helps Joey, 

OO P

In re-reading my post I hope it doesn't appear too uncaring or heartless. Even us cisgender folk have some very terrible trials and tribulations. Things come at us as well that sometimes makes us wonder where the Lord is. But then again it is faith.
Since I am not transgender I cannot know the extent of how y'all feel even though I do know to an extent. Still in all, I hope nobody is offended and that all who are Christians hang in there and not give up. The devil would love for Christians to lose their faith.
If I offended anyone you have my sincerest apology.
May God bless.