Gender counselor experience.

I recently started to see a gender counselor to help me cope with my depression and occasional suicidal thoughts. I believe she is the most well-known non-psychiatrist gender counselor in the very large city in which I live. I have huge issues with my body and negative self-image - I still see a male body and face after nearly 4 years on hrt - and it sometimes sends me to the point of despair and near suicide when I look into the mirror and see a guy looking back at me. It feels safe presenting as male - safe but unfulfilling. I usually will go out dressed 'as a male' in a trucker cap and masculine clothing like large button down shirts or baggy t-shirts and baggy jeans. I never, ever wear makeup. Picture the latino guys in the movie 'American Me' and that's how I usually dress. I have zero facial hair, and my hair is in a boyish / androgynous / emo / mod cut just below the lobe of ear. I am smallish for a man, but large for a woman - 5'8 and 148lb.

The only people who call me by my female name and use female pronouns are my friends. I have not undertaken name change. I have not had any surgeries, only hrt and some electrolysis / laser. There are times when I am referred to as madam or 'love' by strangers but those moments are very rare. Most of the time strangers I think will see me as a very young looking man, and I am always asked for ID when buying cigarettes or alcohol. People will often readily call me 'buddy' or 'man', but rarely sir, because I think I look too young for that even though I am early / mid-thirties. I have had rare times when people in public have expressed confusion when I tell them my male name, and they will say things like: "Is that REALLY your name?". My friends tell me that I am attractive as a woman / transsexual. I don't really see it though. Also, people in public will sometimes stare at me even when I am wearing incredibly male attire.

Anyway, the point of this post is to talk about the gender counsellor. She is wonderful, and I'm not trying to put her down or anything. It's just that I find what happened quite odd.

Anyway, I went to this gender counselor a few days ago. I wore a baggy t-shirt, jeans, and just let my hair down, no cap. it was the first 15 minutes of our session and we were talking, and I was telling her how unhappy I am with my body, and how it really stresses me out to the point of suicide sometimes. She asked me something along the lines of how I feel people react to me when I interact with strangers in public, and I said people will sometimes refer to me as female, and sometimes as male. She then asked how my partner feels about that, and I told her that my partner doesn't like it, that she is more comfortable when people see me as male. She then went on to say something like "Well, if you decide to start hormones people are eventually going to start to see you as a man.". I was like "Huh? What are you talking about?". She said "You know, hormones. Testosterone will help if you want to be seen as a man.". I then said "But I want to be seen as a woman - I'm male to female". She was all apologetic and embarrassed, and told me that she thought I was a female to male, and that all she could see was a woman. We both had a laugh about it and continued the session. Later on in the session she suggested that perhaps I should go and have a chromosome test, and even a scan to see if I might not have some ovaries or something, because of how I look. Also because I'd told her that I'd been getting hot flushes between the ages of 28 and 30 for the two years prior to starting hrt, and she said that that was very unusual for a young man to experience, and that she thinks that there is something 'innately biologically female' (my words, but it's the gist of what she was saying) about me because if the way I look, not just because of hormones.

I was wondering if anybody here has had a similar experience? I'm just not sure if this counselor is for real, or if she is just blowing smoke up my bum. What she said made me feel too good for me to believe that it's true. She is lovely, by all means, and very experienced with trans people, with something like 20 years working with us. I know a number of people who have gone to her, and haven't asked them about their experiences yet. But I'm the type of person who tends to take things with a grain of salt, especially when I am often called male, and still use the male toilets with no problems.

Thanks for reading!

I know (or have known) plenty of women over the years whose combination of features and presentation leave an ambiguous impression, including some who, if I had not known them personally, I might wonder how they want to be seen and which pronouns they preferred.

She probably didn't see you as Doris Day, but it seems (not actually having seen you, just from what you describe) that you might be getting read as a fairly butch woman, which might explain, a little, why strangers might default to male terms, especially to those more on the boyish side -- where I live, at this point, for instance, "dude" is considered a gender-neutral term...

I doubt she did this as a sneaky way to bolster your confidence, but I also probably am missing a lot of the details -- just how you do look, what information she had going into your session and probably a few dozen other things that might be relevant.

Personally, especially now, when my son is beginning transition (wanting to be seen as male, but with very obvious and not very bindable breasts and skin and other features), if someone is presenting at all androgynously I will try to avoid using gendered terms at all. But I don't really know what others will do on that score, especially those whose sole images of transwomen might come from media exploitation?

That you feel your partner would prefer to see you as male could also be playing a role here, in terms of affecting how you present yourself, and how you focus on aspects that presumably were seen as male markers before HRT?

Quote from: r22b2 on February 16, 2013, 03:46:01 PM
Gender counselor experience.

I recently started to see a gender counselor to help me cope with my depression and occasional suicidal thoughts. I believe she is the most well-known non-psychiatrist gender counselor in the very large city in which I live. I have huge issues with my body and negative self-image - I still see a male body and face after nearly 4 years on hrt - and it sometimes sends me to the point of despair and near suicide when I look into the mirror and see a guy looking back at me. It feels safe presenting as male - safe but unfulfilling. I usually will go out dressed 'as a male' in a trucker cap and masculine clothing like large button down shirts or baggy t-shirts and baggy jeans. I never, ever wear makeup. Picture the latino guys in the movie 'American Me' and that's how I usually dress. I have zero facial hair, and my hair is in a boyish / androgynous / emo / mod cut just below the lobe of ear. I am smallish for a man, but large for a woman - 5'8 and 148lb.

The only people who call me by my female name and use female pronouns are my friends. I have not undertaken name change. I have not had any surgeries, only hrt and some electrolysis / laser. There are times when I am referred to as madam or 'love' by strangers but those moments are very rare. Most of the time strangers I think will see me as a very young looking man, and I am always asked for ID when buying cigarettes or alcohol. People will often readily call me 'buddy' or 'man', but rarely sir, because I think I look too young for that even though I am early / mid-thirties. I have had rare times when people in public have expressed confusion when I tell them my male name, and they will say things like: "Is that REALLY your name?". My friends tell me that I am attractive as a woman / transsexual. I don't really see it though. Also, people in public will sometimes stare at me even when I am wearing incredibly male attire.

Anyway, the point of this post is to talk about the gender counsellor. She is wonderful, and I'm not trying to put her down or anything. It's just that I find what happened quite odd.

Anyway, I went to this gender counselor a few days ago. I wore a baggy t-shirt, jeans, and just let my hair down, no cap. it was the first 15 minutes of our session and we were talking, and I was telling her how unhappy I am with my body, and how it really stresses me out to the point of suicide sometimes. She asked me something along the lines of how I feel people react to me when I interact with strangers in public, and I said people will sometimes refer to me as female, and sometimes as male. She then asked how my partner feels about that, and I told her that my partner doesn't like it, that she is more comfortable when people see me as male. She then went on to say something like "Well, if you decide to start hormones people are eventually going to start to see you as a man.". I was like "Huh? What are you talking about?". She said "You know, hormones. Testosterone will help if you want to be seen as a man.". I then said "But I want to be seen as a woman - I'm male to female". She was all apologetic and embarrassed, and told me that she thought I was a female to male, and that all she could see was a woman. We both had a laugh about it and continued the session. Later on in the session she suggested that perhaps I should go and have a chromosome test, and even a scan to see if I might not have some ovaries or something, because of how I look. Also because I'd told her that I'd been getting hot flushes between the ages of 28 and 30 for the two years prior to starting hrt, and she said that that was very unusual for a young man to experience, and that she thinks that there is something 'innately biologically female' (my words, but it's the gist of what she was saying) about me because if the way I look, not just because of hormones.

I was wondering if anybody here has had a similar experience? I'm just not sure if this counselor is for real, or if she is just blowing smoke up my bum. What she said made me feel too good for me to believe that it's true. She is lovely, by all means, and very experienced with trans people, with something like 20 years working with us. I know a number of people who have gone to her, and haven't asked them about their experiences yet. But I'm the type of person who tends to take things with a grain of salt, especially when I am often called male, and still use the male toilets with no problems.

Thanks for reading!

Kia Ora r22B2,

Have you heard of the term 'transphobia phobia' what it roughly means is some trans-folk have unrealistic expectations when it comes to HRT and or facial surgery...They have this overwhelming desire to be seen as a flawless representation of a perfect 'female/male'... And no matter how much HRT has worked it's magic or the surgeon's skill with the scalpel, they are never satisfied-their (trans) Gendar is always switched on, especially when looking in the mirror picking out those 'all so common' male/female facial/body characteristics...Even when a person/stranger is being 'honest' when correctly using the pronouns of ones target gender one is still left feeling doubtful....

Self image and self doubt especially for trans-folk are  big crosses to bear...For some, they take the irrational route, whilst others adapt to the situation and just go with the flow and start living their lives as best as they can...

This is not a slight on your person, just an observation on what's been presented to me over the years when meeting other trans-folk...Both pre op and post transition trans-people tend to struggle with this...   

What can one do about it? Counselling and more counselling to build up ones confidence and hopefully develop coping skills so one can get on with their life...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: Zenda on February 16, 2013, 05:27:29 PM
Kia Ora r22B2,

Have you heard of the term 'transphobia phobia'

I don't think she is suffering from transphobia, it sounds like she could be suffering from body dysmorphic disorder which is pretty commen for trans people. 

Quote from: girl you look fierce on February 16, 2013, 04:19:30 PM
I can't say that has happened to me, but then  I am full time so nobody would have any reason to doubt that I'm a girl.... but, I can understand how you feel since nothing has really changed on 9 mos of hormones.  Oh actually I guess I did present male at a bank once and was surprised when I couldn't pass male since my face was like no different.  After that and another incident of people thinking I was the wrong person after reading my name I gave up on ever presenting male again (though it was only once I even tried).

Interesting you should say this. I've looked at a lot of then-and-now videos over the years, and I can't say I've seen any (even for older transitioners) where there are not some dramatic differences from pre to 9 months in.  I can understand how it might not seem that way to the woman transitioning, though... how we see ourselves, when we (usually) have to look at ourselves day after day can be quite different from how others see us.  I expect to still see my old features a lot at the 9 month mark and to do a lot of fault-finding, perhaps even wondering whether anything has changed substantially. It's also very hard for anyone to look at photos, even, and see them objectively.  Something good to remember, that your experience tells me is not just me imagining things or being jealous that other seem to have better effects in the long run.

Quote from: PoisonEnvy on February 16, 2013, 06:26:59 PM
I don't think she is suffering from transphobia, it sounds like she could be suffering from body dysmorphic disorder which is pretty commen for trans people. 

Kia Ora PoisonEnvy,

Transphobia 'phobia' is also common and more or less is related to BDD...I'm not talking about just 'transphobia' hence term transphobia 'phobia' ...Irrational fear of ones 'birth sex' still being obvious... Some Trans-people go to extremes to 'rid' themselves of 'all' traces of their birth sex = transness [ which is an impossibility-that's where the irrational aspect come in to play] and feel they'll never blend in, even though for the most part they 'already' do blend in ...Not that the OP is an extreme case...

Metta Zenda

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Quote from: muuu on February 16, 2013, 09:00:17 PM
Transphobia sounds a bit weird, the name of it... shouldn't there be some other name?

Anyway, BDD requiers there to be no real defects, only imagined ones. So, somebody who's trans (unless you'd look exactly like a woman without defects), who have real defects cannot be BDD, nor can those who are deformed or have actual slight defects. I would assume there's some kind of counseling for those with real defects, but I'm not sure how it's "treated", might just be general therapy.

Kia Ora Muuu ["Jag hoppas att du mår bra!"]

Some trans-people are also transphobic,, that is, they have an irrational fear of other trans-people and when it comes to transphobia- phobia this irrational fear reflects back on themselves ie, their birth-sex and not wanting in any shape of form to be seen as 'trans' hence their overwhelming desire to be rid of all tell tale signs of their birth-sex that could identify them as 'trans'....A part from being re-born into a female/male body-tell tale signs will always remain, but not necessarily obvious to the uninitiated...

Metta Zenda

Quote from: muuu on February 16, 2013, 09:00:17 PM
Transphobia sounds a bit weird, the name of it... shouldn't there be some other name?

Anyway, BDD requiers there to be no real defects, only imagined ones. So, somebody who's trans (unless you'd look exactly like a woman without defects), who have real defects cannot be BDD, nor can those who are deformed or have actual slight defects. I would assume there's some kind of counseling for those with real defects, but I'm not sure how it's "treated", might just be general therapy.

I respectfully disagree. BDD does not require that there be no real defects, only that one exaggerates them in a way which harms one's health or happiness. Truth is, EVERY woman has real body and beauty defects, even the most gorgeous super models. BDD distorts what we see into something worse.

I am very thankful that I don't suffer from BDD myself, because at 6 feet, 250 lbs, broad shouldered, balloon waisted, wrinkled, moley, hairy, lumpy, scarred, and facing terrible hair challenges, if I did I would be miserable. As it is, I can realistically accept that many people find me beautiful DESPITE my very obvious and real flaws. That's normal. If I couldn't accept that others perceive me as beautiful, or especially if I wanted to transition and found myself postponing it, or sabotaging my own presentation in ways that increased my dysphoria, because I couldn't believe what others told me about perceiving me as female, I would seek treatment for my BDD, so I could feel better about myself.

Being able to accept myself and realistically view my appearence makes me able to do what I need to do to look the best I can and to present in the way I want to be perceived. I am one of those who never in my lifetime will I automatically pass without doing what I need to do every day. So I shake my head when someone with no makeup, male clothing and hairstyles, and a male name gets gendered as female and still thinks they look male. I am not a shrink, but that sounds like someone is suffering needlessly.

I really can't add much that others have already mentioned, but I will add something on the hot flashes. Did you change your diet when you decided to start hormones? I know I had kind of a "whatever" attitude towards my body before I started accepting myself, and put on a lot of weight. I ended up borderline diabetic and was getting hot flashes a lot that were because of that. Once I started accepting myself, I changed my diet and lifestyle because I wanted to be happy with the way I looked when I started hrt, and that ended up reversing the borderline effects and the hot flashes disappeared.

I do not think she is transphobia at all based on your comments. If she is one of the most well known gender therapist in a big city I would be safe to say she is not transphobic.

However, it did strike me curious that she wants you to do a chromosome test and to see if you have ovaries. I never heard of a therapist say that on a first session.

Chromosome tests are expensive and really not necessary unless you were diagnose with Aplastic Anemia or some other diagnosis where DNA and Chromosome tests is required.

Also, I find it weird that she would ask for you to be scanned for ovaries. You are an adult. I am sure by now someone would have discovered if you had an ovary or two....especially since you are already started HRT. Your initial bloodwork would have picked up any possible signs of an ovary producing estrogen from the first tests.

So while I do not believe she is not transphobic, I have no idea why shy gave you those suggestions. Makes no sense to me.

Quote from: Annah on February 16, 2013, 10:15:19 PM
I do not think she is transphobia at all based on your comments. If she is one of the most well known gender therapist in a big city I would be safe to say she is not transphobic.

However, it did strike me curious that she wants you to do a chromosome test and to see if you have ovaries. I never heard of a therapist say that on a first session.

Chromosome tests are expensive and really not necessary unless you were diagnose with Aplastic Anemia or some other diagnosis where DNA and Chromosome tests is required.

Also, I find it weird that she would ask for you to be scanned for ovaries. You are an adult. I am sure by now someone would have discovered if you had an ovary or two....especially since you are already started HRT. Your initial bloodwork would have picked up any possible signs of an ovary producing estrogen from the first tests.

So while I do not believe she is not transphobic, I have no idea why shy gave you those suggestions. Makes no sense to me.

Kia Ora Annah,

The OP wasn't saying that her counsellor was transphobic...

I brought transphobia into the conversation  when  talking about trans-people who 'suffer' from transphobia-phobia... From what I gather the OP is quite happy with her counsellor....

Metta Zenda

.

Quote from: muuu on February 16, 2013, 10:36:52 PM
How come you know some Swedish? :O

So you mean transphobia as a fear of trans people?
Hm... Personally I don't want to be seen as trans, not because I fear trans people, but because I identify as female. I want others to identify me the same way as I identify myself, and I do also hate everything male about myself, because it's 'wrong'.
If somebody actually have a defect and lets it ruin their life, they do suffer, but not from BDD. I don't think they'll get any better if they're treated in a way that tries to make them delude themselves into thinking they don't have a defect, would probably be better to teach them a realistic view on their defect.
If somebody doesn't have any defect, then they're being delusional and have to work on that.
People with defects and that exaggerates them shouldn't be treated the same way as delusional people. That doesn't mean those who have body issues and can't deal with them doesn't deserve help, but they need a different kind of help.

Kia Ora Muuu,

In my youth I spent time travelling around Scandinavia, I worked in Helsinki selling flowers in the Market, I was just helping a friend ,out...However I did work in Denmark  for a few months in Copenhagen and on the island of Bornholm... I have visited the other Scandinavian countries including Sweden a few times and have Swedish friends...As for the Swedish language I know very little, I was more familiar with Danish and Norwegian, but that was many moons ago, in another life....

In the more extreme transphobic-phobic trans-people are obsessed with removing 'all' traces of their birth-sex and many resort to expensive surgical procedures and are still not satisfied...In other words there's no real level of contentment for some transphobic-phobic trans-people even if they blend in-in their minds they still see and dislike the traces of  their birth-sex ie, never finding that peace of mind...

Metta Zenda        

Quote from: muuu on February 16, 2013, 10:36:52 PM
If somebody actually have a defect and lets it ruin their life, they do suffer, but not from BDD. I don't think they'll get any better if they're treated in a way that tries to make them delude themselves into thinking they don't have a defect, would probably be better to teach them a realistic view on their defect.
If somebody doesn't have any defect, then they're being delusional and have to work on that.
People with defects and that exaggerates them shouldn't be treated the same way as delusional people. That doesn't mean those who have body issues and can't deal with them doesn't deserve help, but they need a different kind of help.

You probably are right, I don't keep up on the DSM requirements for full-blown dysmorphia. I don't think of it as 'delusional', only self-deluding.
My only experience with someone formally diagnosed, was with a dear friend who almost died from anorexia until she got her dysmorphia under control through intensive inpatient and outpatient therapy; she started out as quite fat, just as many of us start out looking very male... but her self image didn't change when her body changed, so she still felt fat when she had become dangerously underweight.
I wouldn't say its exactly the same, but I've seen gorgeous transwomen who still see themselves as masculine appearing when they are no longer. They all insist that they have real flaws and that people are just being polite.

.

Quote from: MadelineB on February 16, 2013, 11:01:38 PM
I wouldn't say its exactly the same, but I've seen gorgeous transwomen who still see themselves as masculine appearing when they are no longer. They all insist that they have real flaws and that people are just being polite.

There is some reasonable, non-delusional logic in this -- I really get peeved when people, including some psych professionals, jump to conclusions about cause or the nature of something, when they have so little objective evidence to go on.

I know I can (if I'm looking for it) spot signs that someone may be trans, particularly when the context is one where the question of past identity (and bone structure, and other effects of a male-pattern puberty) might be likely to come up. But I remind myself that I've been looking for fellow transwomen for most of my life, and when I see presentations, even on TV, where the questions are being provoked for people who might not otherwise have thought about this at all, that their reasoning is very often wrong (and they will misgender ciswomen at least as much as transwomen, especially if they are in a setting where they are encouraged to doubt identities).

It might be a good exercise for me to watch a few more of these, I suppose, such as one where Maury Povich presented a group of women in a setting where most of them were likely to be read as nearly drag queens... the point he seemed to be making was how context was everything, and most of the ciswomen appearing in that segment were read as "guys" -- the language and the casual certainty of many of the audience members he he was asking to guess, though, was something I found disturbing, and I had to stop watching after about 4 "reveals" out of what I'm guessing were a dozen by the end of the segment.

Just saying that it's pretty understandable, given a history of having been seen as male for any length of time, that many of us have a hard time letting go and deactivating some of the stress and other triggers that surround this.

Quote from: muuu on February 16, 2013, 11:20:11 PM
@MadelineB
I'm not sure what counts as a defect though... Like, is a humpy nose a defect, a broad nose? Broad noses can be cute, but I'm not sure what the general view on those are. Though, trans people usually have anatomical differences, pelvis, ribcage and so on... which would probably be seen as slightly deformed on a cis-female.
I guess diagnoses like those are best left to professionals :p

On this, I don't think there are any professionals. One thing I've done to desensitize myself from time to time is to go out and take a close look at those presenting as women in everyday life. Exclude models, actresses and anyone else who might have just gone through a 3-hour make-up and hairdressing session. Look at things like bone structure, facial structures or whatever, and you will find that you frequently see women, most of whom are probably not transwomen, who have one or more features that might raise doubts if you were being asked without any other information to conclude anything about what gender was coerced upon them at birth.

Quote from: r22b2 on February 16, 2013, 03:46:01 PM

Anyway, I went to this gender counselor a few days ago. I wore a baggy t-shirt, jeans, and just let my hair down, no cap. it was the first 15 minutes of our session and we were talking, and I was telling her how unhappy I am with my body, and how it really stresses me out to the point of suicide sometimes. She asked me something along the lines of how I feel people react to me when I interact with strangers in public, and I said people will sometimes refer to me as female, and sometimes as male. She then asked how my partner feels about that, and I told her that my partner doesn't like it, that she is more comfortable when people see me as male. She then went on to say something like "Well, if you decide to start hormones people are eventually going to start to see you as a man.". I was like "Huh? What are you talking about?". She said "You know, hormones. Testosterone will help if you want to be seen as a man.". I then said "But I want to be seen as a woman - I'm male to female". She was all apologetic and embarrassed, and told me that she thought I was a female to male, and that all she could see was a woman.

I'm just not sure if this counselor is for real, or if she is just blowing smoke up my bum. What she said made me feel too good for me to believe that it's true. She is lovely, by all means, and very experienced with trans people, with something like 20 years working with us. I know a number of people who have gone to her, and haven't asked them about their experiences yet. But I'm the type of person who tends to take things with a grain of salt, especially when I am often called male, and still use the male toilets with no problems.

I think you should go ahead and allow yourself to feel good about what happened.  It sounds to me like your new counselor just made an honest mistake and assumed that this was the first time that you had been in to see someone about GID or hadn't yet chosen to do anything about it.  I think you should take her at her word.

If you insist on having that grain of salt...  just think of this as the nicest little white lie that any one has told you in years and appreciate the gesture. 

For my part, I find it more worrying that your partner is more comfortable with you presenting as male.  It can be very hard to be accepting of yourself when you feel that the people you love the most... spouses, parents, children... are rejecting you and still see you as male.  I can very easily see how your own discomfort with presenting as female in public could mirror your partner's discomfort.

This whole process can be very hard on trans-partners as well and it sounds like she may have some issues that she should see a counselor about if you both want the relationship to continue.  If she's not comfortable with you being female it's going to be very hard for you to be comfortable.  And if she is not open to seeing a counselor or 'becoming comfortable' with this... then I'd suggest you speak talk to your therapist about this.  (Actually, ask your therapist about this anyway.  You should always take advice from random people on the internet with a grain of salt.)

Thank you everybody for taking the time to respond - I wasn't expecting so many!

Zenda: I think what you said about transphobia phobia is very interesting. What I've found as hormones have made more and more changes to me, is that my desire to step into the world as female has become more and more overwhelming, yet the fear has also become greater and greater. As I said there is safety in presenting a male image in public, and that feeds upon itself in the way I see myself in the mirror, and leads me to the occasional very powerful depressive episode every 4, 5, 6 or 8 weeks. I don't want to one day experience a moment of irrationality while I am depressed, because really suicide is useless, and there is too much to live for, too many things to see in this world. This is why I have gone to see that couselor, because I actually like my life, and I am very grateful for the things I do have, and the things I am able to do - aside from the negative self-image - and I realized I needed help to find ways to overcome these self-doubts, and to embrace my uniqueness. And you are right, I will continue to seek counseling, even though it is costing me a lot of $$$. For three years I thought I could figure eveything out on my own, especially after I'd spent 6 months seeing another gender counselor (who was wonderful) at the start of hrt 4 years ago, but she retired. 

PoisonEnvy is correct in that I do feel that I have body dysmorphia, although it isn't as bad as it was prior to hrt when my body was less feminine. I don't want to get into the whole thing about whether or not being trans constitutes body dysmorphic disorder, the whole being born male as a physical defect thing vs body dysmorphia as a condition where somebody hates aspects of their body that are not defective. To me body dysmorphia is an obsession with one's physicality, and an overwhelming, almost debilitating desire, to change those aspects the person is obsessed by, which is exactly how I often feel about my body. In this I agree with MadelineB, who put it more eloquently than I am able to.

At the start of hrt I had this whole idea of going to get full FFS, breast implants, hip and butt augmentation, liposuction, srs, and even leg-lengthening to even out my proportions! I'm glad I didn't have the money for any of that, because I now think I would have emerged a plastic-surgery wreck if I had. Now I don't want any type of surgeries, aside from srs, and even that's a long way off given that in the past couple of years I've tried to get away from obsessing about transition related stuff, and just spend my money living my life and doing the other things I have always wanted to do. I do want to keep my appearance as natural as possible.

MadelineB: I do need to learn to accept myself and realistically view my appearance, as you say you do. It's difficult though, at times, especially given my disposition towards suicidal depression (diagnosed) and perhaps bipolar (my own diagnosis), which I have been fighting and coping with since I was 13. Depression doesn't stop me from doing things - usually - but there are indeed times when I will waste a week every 4 to 8 weeks in this pit of despair, where all the negative things about myself and my body are magnified, and I force my myself to acknowledge that it will only last for a week, after which I know I will be back to my normal self. When you say you shake your head at how I feel, given that I have an androgynous haircut (I wouldn't call it a man's haircut) don't wear makeup, and wear men's clothing all the time, and still sometimes people will see a female. I can understand and respect that. The logical part of my mind tells me that the way I feel is absurd to me as well, but we are emotional creatures, and logic doesn't always dictate how we feel - everybody has their own unique challenges - something that is a life-shaking issue for one person may be a non-issue for another person.

SunKat & Elspeth: Yes the stuff with my partner and how she expects me to be is one large issue, and I think it does relate to my self/body image. She and I have been together for 17 years, since we were teenagers, so it's hard for her, even though she told me from the very beginning that she liked me because she thought I was 'pretty' and always told me that I'd make a cute girl - but of course, she never thought that that's what I actually wanted! After all, there's a difference between being a pretty boy and being a woman. It is something I spoke about at length with my counselor, and we will continue to talk about it in our next session. Yes, I have taken what the counselor said about confusing me for pre hrt f to m as something very positive, and it has bolstered my mood no end, but still, there's that grain of salt .

girl you look fierce: Yes I also agree that the way a person sees maleness / femaleness varies from person to person. It's always baffling to me how somebody can see me as male one day, and another day somebody will see me as female. It's a very strange place to be. I just thought it was odd that my counselor would see me as a non-testosterone f to m when she has counselled probably hundreds of trans people over her career, and as such I'd expected her to have a better transdar for want of a better word.

Thank you for all of your responses!