Today I'm 2 years on T and I still can't pass. I just got ma'med at a pizza place. I came so close to correcting her but again got scared. I always regret it when I don't speak up. I can't seem to get the courage to speak up. 2 years on T and I'm still being seen as female? Is this b/c my dosage is not in the high male range? I'm in the normal male range now.


Anyone 2 years or longer on T and still not passing?

Do you know how unbelievable frustrating it is to be on T for that long and still get ma'm?

My Sevan has been on T a little over 3 years and it is just the last couple months that I am starting to see 'man'.

Transition is slow, but it will eventually end with you looking like the man you are. It can take a frustratingly long time, I know. But it is worth it in the long run.

You seem obsessed with having the "right" amount of testosterone. Instead of focussing on that, have you tried working on your clothes and general presentation? On the phone, try correcting the other person to sir. You probably won't want to but try it. People aren't generally going to zoom in on it as much as one might think.

A little before two years was when things were changing for me and I had high/normal T levels.

I'm sorry it's taking so long. I think most people pass at least voice-wise pretty early on T, but a lot of us take much longer to look like a "normal" male. I'm over a year in and I still occasionally get ma'amed if I'm not talking. That is heavily influenced by how I dress. My father and half brother have soft skin and not a ton of facial/body hair though, and they're cis and in their sixties and forties.

I still get ma'am-ed on the phone, and I just say, it's SIR. Do you ever watch undercover boss?  The boss of DirectTV (or was it DISH? LOL) was undercover and had to work in their call center.  His first call he said, sorry about that, Sir, and the woman said, It's MA'AM. He was mortified.  So it happens to others as wall.  I work with a woman who has an androgynous name.  I had never met her, but had only talked to her on the phone.  After hearing the androgynous voice and the androgynous name, I thought she was male.  Nope, cis-female.

But anyway, I also had a weird thing with some hired workers who I caught calling me 'she' to each other, and that was after 4 years on T and I pass 100%.  Not sure what their deal was, but they weren't talking to me and I was far enough away from them so I just pretended I didn't hear.

But it sucks more for us because we want to pass as our gender and it's horrid to be called the wrong gender.  It's easier to laugh it off now that I am getting close to the 5 year mark on T.

Got misgendered today in person and I haven't shaved my face in a few weeks.

It might take you awhile to get where you want to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you saying something about getting your levels checked and going on injections. It takes time and a steady dosing schedule helps.

Are you documenting your changes at all? If so it might help to compare a photo of you pre T to a resent one. Changes happen slowly over such a long period of time that you won't see them just looking in the mirror daily.

Transition is slow, but it will eventually end with you looking like the man you are.[/b]

I hope so... real soon.

Quote from: Frank on February 15, 2013, 07:12:54 PM
You seem obsessed with having the "right" amount of testosterone. Instead of focussing on that, have you tried working on your clothes and general presentation? On the phone, try correcting the other person to sir. You probably won't want to but try it. People aren't generally going to zoom in on it as much as one might think.

I was getting sir from people for awhile then all of a sudden she calls me Ma'm and that was a shocker to me. It was at the tip of my tongue to correct her, and I didn't. I always regret it when I don't correct people. But on the phone I do correct people b/c I'm teling them my name. They just say sorry, bad connection on my end. But that isn't true. My voice is still EXTREMELY high. 

I was dress in all male clothing. I don't know what she saw that was female. My mom said it could be my long hair. But I was passing fine with my long hair before. Why now all of a sudden I'm getting female???

Quote from: Caleb. on February 15, 2013, 07:25:44 PM
I feel you here, I am 10 months on T and don't pass (or, rarely pass...which is better than before). I feel like I am behind all the other guys, so I can only imagine how you're feeling.

I've started correcting people, and it is scary and stressful. But it may make you feel better...it can help me sometimes, even though it still hurts to be misgendered.

I'm sorry your not passing very well. I was that way 10 months on T too and felt way behind all the other guys as well. I still feel very behind being 2 years and not passing and my voice still being so freak'n high. I hope you start passing better soon.

Quote from: Felix on February 16, 2013, 09:14:17 AM
I'm sorry it's taking so long. I think most people pass at least voice-wise pretty early on T, but a lot of us take much longer to look like a "normal" male. I'm over a year in and I still occasionally get ma'amed if I'm not talking. That is heavily influenced by how I dress. My father and half brother have soft skin and not a ton of facial/body hair though, and they're cis and in their sixties and forties.

Sorry you still get the occasional ma'm

My voice is still vet high. I think I sound like a girl. No wonder why I can't pass over the phone. I really do sound like a girl. T hasn't changed my voice at all. Well, maybe only a tad.

Quote from: sneakersjay on February 16, 2013, 11:00:12 AM
I still get ma'am-ed on the phone, and I just say, it's SIR. Do you ever watch undercover boss?  The boss of DirectTV (or was it DISH? LOL) was undercover and had to work in their call center.  His first call he said, sorry about that, Sir, and the woman said, It's MA'AM. He was mortified.  So it happens to others as wall.  I work with a woman who has an androgynous name.  I had never met her, but had only talked to her on the phone.  After hearing the androgynous voice and the androgynous name, I thought she was male.  Nope, cis-female.

But anyway, I also had a weird thing with some hired workers who I caught calling me 'she' to each other, and that was after 4 years on T and I pass 100%.  Not sure what their deal was, but they weren't talking to me and I was far enough away from them so I just pretended I didn't hear.

But it sucks more for us because we want to pass as our gender and it's horrid to be called the wrong gender.  It's easier to laugh it off now that I am getting close to the 5 year mark on T.

Sorry you get ma'med on the phone too and that people you worked with were calling you she after 4 years on T. I wonder why they were doing that?

Nope, never watched undercover boss.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 16, 2013, 04:00:10 PM
Got misgendered today in person and I haven't shaved my face in a few weeks.

Really? I'm sorry. Did you correct the person?

Quote from: Simon on February 16, 2013, 04:25:19 PM
It might take you awhile to get where you want to be. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you saying something about getting your levels checked and going on injections. It takes time and a steady dosing schedule helps.

Are you documenting your changes at all? If so it might help to compare a photo of you pre T to a resent one. Changes happen slowly over such a long period of time that you won't see them just looking in the mirror daily.

I've been back on shots since Dec 17th. My levels are in the normal male range. The doctor did say she could raise my levels higher, but I thought about it, and I don't want more acne so I'm staying at the dose I'm on now. As long as the dose I'm on now will still masculize me I'm okay with this dosage.

The life is very unfair : some trans pass without treatment, others do not pass with. We are all very different physically on the basis, you should not forget that. The necessary time to pass is also very variable according to the persons.
I pass well with my beard and my hair rather long, but if I remove my beard and what I cut myself the very short hair, I can hear again "Hey Miss". It is necessary to adapt itself with look.:/(I'm on T since 19 months).

But nevertheless I'm lucky because I have a great beard!

If you still don't pass, it could be that your taking the T slower than others. You can do things to pass while yo wait for the rest of the changes though. Have you tried mimicking? Find a male friend who has a similar pitch to you and ask him if you can record him just talking for about thirty minutes. Then every night when you have time, listen to the recording and mimic his tone. It's not just pitch that makes the difference between and male and a female voice. There are other things at play as well, one of the hardest ones to master is ending your sentence on a lower pitch than what you began with. Females tend to answer in a higher pitch so it sounds more excited or like a question, but men usually end on a monotone or a bit lower.

Once you can mimic that friend, find someone with a slightly lower voice and rinse and repeat. Eventually you'll be able to lower your voice to a deeper male tone. I have problems with my voice as well, so I understand the frustration.

You should also work on your subtle non-verbal behavior:
Do you sit like a man?
Do you have a firm handshake?
Do you hold your shoulders back and puff out your chest?
Do you walk with an extended stride?
Do you allow your arms to move naturally when you walk or do you hold them tight to your body?
Do you let your shoulders drop and lift with your stride or do you hold them level?
Do you stand with your legs shoulder width apart with even weight on each foot?
Do you catch the door for ladies?
Do you call other males "Man, dude, etc"?

All these things and many others are what will be your keys to passing. You can't be on T and pass as your correct gender by acting like a female. It's on of our disadvantages, because we've been subtly trained all our lives to act female, so we need to relearn our subtle non-verbal behaviors as a man.

hey Dominick -

do you work out at all?

Working out can you give you a lot of confidence, and confidence can you make pass better. So much of how other people react to us is how we project ourselves. Also, if you have a bit of definition it might help with passing as well.

I really dont know what to say cause I have no idea how you look like or anything.
all I know is its fustrating to be misgendered also after a long time.
as other people have mention its not all about homones either, other fact also pays something. even when homones do help alot of the chance to pass.

I've really thought that acting more feminine might actually help with getting read as male. In many situations it does.

Quote from: Nygeel on February 17, 2013, 02:53:03 PM
I've really thought that acting more feminine might actually help with getting read as male. In many situations it does.

Because the contrast makes people connect you as feminine guy instead of masculine female?

Quote from: spacerace on February 17, 2013, 03:27:25 PM
Because the contrast makes people connect you as feminine guy instead of masculine female?

Correct. With who I am physically, I'm not the most manly man in terms of how I look and the way I act doesn't seem like I'm going to gut a fish and chop down a tree. And a lot of times when somebody see "female looking and acts masculine must be butch" they would be thrown off by that person acting feminine.

I totally recognize my own feeling in Nygeel's words.

I can relate to what Nygeel is saying too. Acting masculine just gets me read as a butch lesbian. It might just be a comfort thing for me, I'm not masculine by nature so I always had to force it and I was overthinking everything I did and said - "would a guy sit like this? would a guy say that? how would a guy react to this?"

Now I'm just me without giving it much thought and I've established myself as the fabulous gay friend of many 

The only advice I can give is to not be afraid of correcting people - whenever it happens to me I just very casually say something like "I'm a guy actually, but don't worry about it happens to me all the time" - I usually get one of two reactions: they either apologise and don't mention it again or they give me some sort of explanation, those are always fun. I've had everything from "oh I'm sorry....it's just that you have such smooth skin for a guy!" to "I admit I wasn't sure either way, but your shoes swung me to female, sorry about that!"

For a few weeks after that last one I stopped wearing the shoes in question, but then I thought screw it, they're comfy, I don't care. The guy who made that comment is now a friend and he refers to them as my "gay shoes" xD

Quote from: Nygeel on February 17, 2013, 03:33:55 PM
Correct. With who I am physically, I'm not the most manly man in terms of how I look and the way I act doesn't seem like I'm going to gut a fish and chop down a tree.

You don't need to gut the fish...just chop down the tree with the whole herring.

When I started T, I decided to just be myself and not worry about how people read me. I did worry, of course--but I kept on being myself, no matter what. Some of that devil-may-care bravado must have done the trick--I certainly think it helped. But it must have been part of the whole package.

I had certain advantages. I was older and more seasoned than Dominick. I started on a large dose right away. And my innards were pretty much shut down; I had already reached menopause. Not much estrogen for the T to fight against. Not to mention that I'm relatively tall for an FTM.

I think that height is a much more important factor than most people realize; if you're under five feet, you might just need more time to acquire masculine features and characteristics that will balance out the height disadvantage. I'm about 5' 7", and I also think that my height helps to sort of stretch out my slightly prominent hips and make them seem narrower--an optical illusion. My very short buddy, who has noticeable facial hair, is three and a half years on T and still gets misread regularly enough for it to be frustrating. He does have some obvious "feminine" mannerisms, but I think his height and his body proportions are the deciding factors.

Quote from: Arch on February 17, 2013, 07:19:33 PM
I think that height is a much more important factor than most people realize; if you're under five feet, you might just need more time to acquire masculine features and characteristics that will balance out the height disadvantage. I'm about 5' 7", and I also think that my height helps to sort of stretch out my slightly prominent hips and make them seem narrower--an optical illusion.

I agree with Arch and I witnessed it first hand. I used to work in a Panera Bread and an older transguy would come in often with his wife. There wasn't much that really pointed him out except the sparse peach fuzz looking long facial hair (it looked strange on a man with a head full of grey/white hair) and his butt. He had a boo-tay. He was a shorter fella and it was just unfortunate that his rump was where it seemed 80% of his fat went to.

Not saying your height/weight proportion is comparable, just saying that there are other factors that people single out besides voice, facial hair, male hairline, etc.