Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 12:24:20 PM

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 12:19:30 PM
Oh that is a good distinction. Maybe we're on the same page after all. I also was thinking of someone like Buttercup from Princess Bride when I mentioned 'strong in a feminine way'. Love Bella though! 

Yeah, that's more what I was talking about. I prefer this kind of femininity in a partner (male or female), so I'm kind of biased I guess. 

I don't get how you can like Bella.   She was /so/ whiny.  I can't stand whiners like that, male or female.  It's fine to whine on occasion, but all of the time?...And she fell for an emotionally abusive twat.    No, don't fall for the guy that's always there and willing to help you no matter what.  Instead fall for the guy who's constantly leaving and the creeper who watched you while you slept.  [My other big thing is that she led the good guy (Jacob) on...ugh...]

Yeah Jacob was hotter (literally lol) and had more personality. I kept hoping throughout the books she would see what was right in front of her.

The whiny part I never noticed. I just loved how gone she was over love, ready to give up everything and stuff.
Don't remember Edward being emotionally abusive (but it's been awhile since I read the books). How so?

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 12:34:33 PM

Yeah Jacob was hotter (literally lol) and had more personality. I kept hoping throughout the books she would see what was right in front of her.

The whiny part I never noticed. I just loved how gone she was over love, ready to give up everything and stuff.
Don't remember Edward being emotionally abusive (but it's been awhile since I read the books). How so?

Hahah, Jacob was definitely better looking though I'll admit I like Robert in Harry Potter.  He played a cute Cedric Diggory.

He was always threatening to leave her and constantly saying she shouldn't be with him.  I understand the reasons, but if she shouldn't be with him then he should have ended the relationship right away before she got to the point where she was trying to jump off a cliff to get him to notice her [this was manipulative on her part].  He left a couple of times and, to me, he was always putting her down over her feelings for him.  It's not healthy to hear that the person you love thinks you should leave him.  [And it's also a form of manipulation.]  Overall, the relationship was unhealthy for both of them and, in my opinion, both of them needed to leave the other. 

Here is a good article detailing how both of them are in an unhealthy relationship and how their behaviors qualify their relationship to be called an abusive one.  The relationship also meets several of the criteria for an abusive relationship given out by the National Domestic Violence hotline, most notably the questions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 9. 

On Mary Sue:  It's a character that can do no wrong/is heavily idealized/has faults, but these are always overlooked/too perfect/etc. 

Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 01:23:13 PM
The relationship also meets several of the criteria for an abusive relationship given out by the National Domestic Violence hotline, most notably the questions: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 9. 

Wow according to that criteria, I was a worse partner than I thought.  Never threatened to kill anyone's pets though. That's just evil.

I don't know. Are you sure that list isn't being a bit 'picky'? I mean, don't most relationships have a bunch of that stuff?

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 02:25:39 PM
Wow according to that criteria, I was a worse partner than I thought.  Never threatened to kill anyone's pets though. That's just evil.

I don't know. Are you sure that list isn't being a bit 'picky'? I mean, don't most relationships have a bunch of that stuff?

I've only been in one relationship where it fit any of that criteria.  I dropped him fairly quick upon him moving in with me.  My other relationships were fairly good and emotionally healthy.  We just sort of fell apart in those relationships and there was no real dislike among us, except for one and that was because I told him we couldn't be friends at the current point in time. 

My parents' relationship doesn't fit any of the criteria (they'll be married 25 years in April), either, and neither does the relationship my sister's currently in. 

I'm not saying that there aren't relationships out there that meet that criteria in some sense, just that I've never known anyone be in a successful relationship that meets those criteria.

This is from the 'Disney Movies' thread but I didn't want to derail it, so split it.

The topic is rather timely for me so...

Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 02:33:13 PM
My other relationships were fairly good and emotionally healthy. 

What does a good and emotionally healthy relationship look like?

If anyone wants to chime in on abusive vs non abusive relationships, please do. I have a history of not treating partners very well, so I need all the help I can get if god forbid I start dating again.

If it's something you look back on and feel bad for doing, then it is probably a form of abuse.

Just don't be an a$$. 

-If you don't want to give him/her money, calmly explain why not, such as you not seeing a $50 hairstyling as being worthwhile, and reach a compromise.
-Occasionally, do something nice and spontaneous just for the sake of doing it and nothing in return, such as waking up early to surprise your SO with breakfast in bed. Spoil him/her every once in awhile.
-Make sure you respect both of your needs.
-Go out and do something fun.
-Communicate.

Quote from: Brooke777 on February 19, 2013, 02:55:50 PM
If it's something you look back on and feel bad for doing, then it is probably a form of abuse.

Not necessarily. If you didn't want to watch a particular movie with your SO and he/she gave you those puppy dog eyes, you may feel bad, but aren't abusive.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 02:43:28 PM
This is from the 'Disney Movies' thread but I didn't want to derail it, so split it.

The topic is rather timely for me so...

What does a good and emotionally healthy relationship look like?

If anyone wants to chime in on abusive vs non abusive relationships, please do. I have a history of not treating partners very well, so I need all the help I can get if god forbid I start dating again.

I was wondering where the posts went. xD I was like "o.o...did I say something bad? T.T"

Anyway, I'll detail my first relationship:

I met her at Otakon.  Yes, we were both young and still high school.  It was also long distance, but it was still enjoyable and it only ended because my parents' didn't like her and forced me to never talk to her again.  We would probably still be together otherwise.  Anyway, the relationship was emotionally fulfilling.  We both cared for each other a lot and we always talked through any problems that arise.  It was a mutual friendship first and a romantic relationship next.  We could get pissy with each other (who doesn't?), but we talked through it and everything came out better in the end.   

It was just overall rather nice and it was a lot of giving between the two of us.  It was very much a mutual relationship built on trust and love.

My second relationship failed because the guy was a creeper.

My third relationship was fairly emotionally healthy at first and only became unhealthy when I didn't break it off soon enough and kept my feelings inside.  At first there was a lot of caring for another and being friends along with partners.  It only failed later on because I wasn't going to wait around forever to be something more than a gf (at the time I wasn't out to anyone).  It was nowhere as good as my first relationship, however. 

My fourth was unhealthy.  He was controlling and manipulative.  He refused to let me go to a friend's bacholerette party and everything had to be his way.  He wouldn't let me be a separate person and he kept emotionally blackmailing me into being with him (physically and emotionally).  He also completely rejected my being trans* and refused to acknowledge the side completely.  It was unhealthy to an extreme.  I recognized this, though, and left him.

Quote from: DianaP on February 19, 2013, 02:56:27 PM
Just don't be an a$$. 

-If you don't want to give him/her money, calmly explain why not, such as you not seeing a $50 hairstyling as being worthwhile, and reach a compromise.
-Occasionally, do something nice and spontaneous just for the sake of doing it and nothing in return, such as waking up early to surprise your SO with breakfast in bed. Spoil him/her every once in awhile.
-Make sure you respect both of your needs.
-Go out and do something fun.
-Communicate.

Not necessarily. If you didn't want to watch a particular movie with your SO and he/she gave you those puppy dog eyes, you may feel bad, but aren't abusive.

Life is not always that simple. I was the one who earned the money, but I could not spend any of it.  If I tried to do something nice for her I was always told what I did wrong. Do I even have needs? Not according to her. Something fun for her was to have me run all the errands and then clean the house while she hung out with friends. Communicate. I got yelled at plenty, so communication is over rated.

As for looking back on something. I have never felt bad about not wanting to watch a certain movie. I was more referring to if you look back and see that yelling at the person to the point where they were cowering in the corner, and you feel bad. You shouldn't do that anymore. Most people don't feel bad about small things like movies or music. It's about the bigger things.

Quote from: Brooke777 on February 19, 2013, 03:02:45 PM
Life is not always that simple. I was the one who earned the money, but I could not spend any of it.  If I tried to do something nice for her I was always told what I did wrong. Do I even have needs? Not according to her. Something fun for her was to have me run all the errands and then clean the house while she hung out with friends. Communicate. I got yelled at plenty, so communication is over rated.

As for looking back on something. I have never felt bad about not wanting to watch a certain movie. I was more referring to if you look back and see that yelling at the person to the point where they were cowering in the corner, and you feel bad. You shouldn't do that anymore. Most people don't feel bad about small things like movies or music. It's about the bigger things.

What if they don't feel bad for any of that?  They should stop regardless of if they feel bad or not.  Those behaviors are unhealthy and the person who has to deal with them has my sympathies.  But not every person is going to feel bad for yelling at someone or controlling a person's life; they might even enjoy it.  It still makes it unhealthy and the relationship needs to end however hard it would be to do so.

Abused spouses often feel emotionally trapped and tied to the person so it's hard for them to break away even if they know the relationship is unhealthy.  It takes the support of loved ones and sometimes professionals to get away though often the person still feels bad for trying to break off the relationship especially if they loved the abuser.

But the relationship still needs to end.

Well, I was just providing an admittedly silly example to address the point that feeling bad about something isn't grounds for it being abuse.

Allow me to make an amendment: HEALTHY communication.

Not to mention that everything I said was meant as a two-way street. Your relationship sounded like a one-way street, which doesn't work.

I find the word abuse to be very limiting. because sometimes, things in a relationship can be unhealthy, destructive, and hurtful, but labelling at as "abuse" seems extreme. And actually, a friend of mine who works at a women's shelter says that because of the stigma of words like "abuse", "victim", so and on so forth, almost every person thinks to themselves "I wasn't abused...abuse is X." "At least s/he didn't hit me." "At least s/he didn't hit the kids." "At least s/he didn't rape the kids." So on and so forth, there's always a higher level that is "abuse" when theirs is not.

I'd say if either party feels controlled, undervalued, or afraid, it could constitute as an unhealthy relationship. Sometimes, both partners feel that way. I think instead of fearing the "abuse" label, it's important to simply be open and understand the gravity of your partner's concerns. Take them seriously, talk them through with as much honesty and as little defensiveness as possible. Say what you mean, and let your actions reflect what you want to say (for example, sometimes people engage in bad/controlling behaviour to send a message to their partner - rather, it is better to simply express honestly and respectfully and have enough trust to work through the issues).

Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 03:09:06 PM
What if they don't feel bad for any of that?  They should stop regardless of if they feel bad or not.  Those behaviors are unhealthy and the person who has to deal with them has my sympathies.  But not every person is going to feel bad for yelling at someone or controlling a person's life; they might even enjoy it.  It still makes it unhealthy and the relationship needs to end however hard it would be to do so.

Abused spouses often feel emotionally trapped and tied to the person so it's hard for them to break away even if they know the relationship is unhealthy.  It takes the support of loved ones and sometimes professionals to get away though often the person still feels bad for trying to break off the relationship especially if they loved the abuser.

But the relationship still needs to end.

That's true, not everyone will feel bad for that type of stuff. I was mainly speaking to the OP who I know feels bad. But, yes there are abusers out there who see nothing wrong with how they treat those that they abuse.

Quote from: DianaP on February 19, 2013, 03:11:16 PM
Well, I was just providing an admittedly silly example to address the point that feeling bad about something isn't grounds for it being abuse.

I have seen some truly horrendous relationships, so I don't take this topic too light. I may have taken your example a bit serious.

Quote from: Caleb. on February 19, 2013, 03:18:15 PM
II'd say if either party feels controlled, undervalued, or afraid, it could constitute as an unhealthy relationship. Sometimes, both partners feel that way. I think instead of fearing the "abuse" label, it's important to simply be open and understand the gravity of your partner's concerns. Take them seriously, talk them through with as much honesty and as little defensiveness as possible. Say what you mean, and let your actions reflect what you want to say (for example, sometimes people engage in bad/controlling behaviour to send a message to their partner - rather, it is better to simply express honestly and respectfully and have enough trust to work through the issues).

I wish it were simple. I have learned that expressing your concerns, fears, and emotions is a good way to get yelled at. It's often better to just keep quite and make yourself as small as possible. Eventually, a way out will present itself.

Quote from: Brooke777 on February 19, 2013, 03:36:16 PM
I have seen some truly horrendous relationships, so I don't take this topic too light. I may have taken your example a bit serious.

Alright, if you want a better example: My dad left his glass on the floor while we were watching a movie. The phone rang, and I went to answer it. I stepped on the glass and it shattered, splitting my foot. My dad felt bad, but I knew it was an accident.

Quote from: DianaP on February 19, 2013, 03:40:36 PM
Alright, if you want a better example: My dad left his glass on the floor while we were watching a movie. The phone rang, and I went to answer it. I stepped on the glass and it shattered, splitting my foot. My dad felt bad, but I knew it was an accident.

There was no action on his part. He did not do anything to hurt you. You stepped on something and hurt yourself. Way different than abuse.

Quote from: Brooke777 on February 19, 2013, 02:55:50 PM
If it's something you look back on and feel bad for doing, then it is probably a form of abuse.

He left the glass on the floor instead of on the table next to him. He felt bad for doing that. It wasn't abuse.

Quote from: Caleb. on February 19, 2013, 03:18:15 PM
I find the word abuse to be very limiting. because sometimes, things in a relationship can be unhealthy, destructive, and hurtful, but labelling at as "abuse" seems extreme. And actually, a friend of mine who works at a women's shelter says that because of the stigma of words like "abuse", "victim", so and on so forth, almost every person thinks to themselves "I wasn't abused...abuse is X." "At least s/he didn't hit me." "At least s/he didn't hit the kids." "At least s/he didn't rape the kids." So on and so forth, there's always a higher level that is "abuse" when theirs is not.

I'd say if either party feels controlled, undervalued, or afraid, it could constitute as an unhealthy relationship. Sometimes, both partners feel that way. I think instead of fearing the "abuse" label, it's important to simply be open and understand the gravity of your partner's concerns. Take them seriously, talk them through with as much honesty and as little defensiveness as possible. Say what you mean, and let your actions reflect what you want to say (for example, sometimes people engage in bad/controlling behaviour to send a message to their partner - rather, it is better to simply express honestly and respectfully and have enough trust to work through the issues).

There's also emotional abuse, physical abuse, and both that can occur in a relationship.  Sometimes it truly is abuse and other times it's just a destructive relationship that's unhealthy.  Either way, emotional trauma is occurring regardless of the form it takes.  There are also varying degrees of abuse and it can be classified differently depending on the person at hand. 

As for talking...it doesn't always work.  I talked with my ex-fiancé about the problems and he didn't give a damn.  He heard the words, but he didn't listen to them and take into the idea that they were meant.  He admitted this when I finally broke it off with him ("I would have changed if I had known it would come to this, but I didn't think it would." -- it was an excuse not to change and work on the relationship).  I was willing to listen and work on things that bothered him, but I never got the same courtesy.  Overall, the relationship was emotionally trying and I'm still a wreck in certain ways [such as I'm extremely hesitant to enter a sexual relationship now because I was repeatedly coerced into having sex against my will with my ex].   

Anyway...just sometimes talking doesn't work.  As stated earlier by DianaP, relationships are a two way street (or should be). 

@ Brooke777:  Oh, okay.   I think Not-so Fat Admin feeling bad and wanting to change is a good sign. (-snugs to him-)  It takes courage, in my opinion, to admit that.

Quote from: DianaP on February 19, 2013, 03:47:14 PM
He left the glass on the floor instead of on the table next to him. He felt bad for doing that. It wasn't abuse.

Sorry hon, I think you and I are thinking on completely different levels on this one. You are playing with semantics. I'm not. You can tear my statement apart but I'm pretty sure that anyone who has been around abuse knows what I mean by this. Please, move on to another post. Thanks.