I guess. I just didn't think the definition fit since I have been around abuse, but, alas, it doesn't matter.

I know it isn't as simple as just talking. and I don't believe all situations, particularly when the person is abusive, can be solved by talking. Actually, if someone is not listening to you when you are expressing your concerns and feelings, it's a good sign the relationship needs to end. I was more talking from the perspective of someone who is afraid to be abusive - how to be a good partner and not engage in behaviours that are going to cause emotional trauma to your partner.

This is coming from my own experiences with abuse...I was sexually abused by a woman for about three years during my teenage years, but I always thought "it's not abuse because she said she loved me." "It's not abuse because I've let it go on, a part of myself must care for her." I've also experienced emotional abuse from various people. But again, there was the "it's not abuse, they just don't understand." "It's not abuse, they didn't hit me." In order for me to truly comprehend what happened to me, I had to drop trying to decide if it was abuse or not. I had people tell me flat out I was abused, and I tried to label it as abuse, but that didn't help me. What helped was stepping away from that and thinking about how it made me feel, and how the dynamics played out.

In any case, I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like it was just something that needed to be talked through. I think talking can help in some cases, where someone may not be aware they are engaging in bad behaviour, but I definitely think that if someone is not listening and taking your concerns seriously it is time to step out.

Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 03:50:16 PM
@ Brooke777:  Oh, okay.   I think Not-so Fat Admin feeling bad and wanting to change is a good sign. (-snugs to him-)  It takes courage, in my opinion, to admit that.

Thanks you two. 

Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 03:50:16 PM
There's also emotional abuse, physical abuse, and both that can occur in a relationship.  Sometimes it truly is abuse and other times it's just a destructive relationship that's unhealthy.  Either way, emotional trauma is occurring regardless of the form it takes.  There are also varying degrees of abuse and it can be classified differently depending on the person at hand. 

Oddly, it's the more 'verbal' stuff and humiliation caused which I have a hard time forgiving myself of. The physical stuff scared me more at the time it was happening. Because I didn't know my own strength and was terrified I wouldn't be able to stop myself. Plus the fear I saw shamed me horribly.

The other stuff didn't bother me till later when I realized it still 'hung in the air' and nothing I could say or do would fix it.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 04:34:04 PM
Oddly, it's the more 'verbal' stuff and humiliation caused which I have a hard time forgiving myself of. The physical stuff scared me more at the time it was happening. Because I didn't know my own strength and was terrified I wouldn't be able to stop myself. Plus the fear I saw shamed me horribly.

The other stuff didn't bother me till later when I realized it still 'hung in the air' and nothing I could say or do would fix it.

Verbal stuff is hard to get over for many people -- words have always hurt me more than being physically touched.  Words just dig in and fester in my experience.  (This may not be true for others, though.)  Anyway, I understand the points and why physical problems would have scared you more at the time it was happening.

From what I've been told by people who work with abused people, only 3% of abusers ever recover. To put it into perspective, that's about the same as rapists.
Emotional abuse is the most prevalent form of abuse and it is always present when there are other forms of abuse. Emotional abuse is also not any less serious than other forms.
There is no way of knowing how fast or when it will escalate (and it will). For example, a woman was "just" emotionally abused by her husband. He shot her and her mother when they came home one day.
There is often a cycle: the honeymoon phase, the tense phase, and the explosion. The honeymoon phase disappears over time and it does not make any of it ok.
The stigma surrounding the word "abuse" needs to be eradicated and people need to be educated on what it really is. Not saying "oh, well, it was just ___" or "abuse is extreme." Yes, it gets to be, but it doesn't start out extreme. That's how they trap people.
I once asked my mom where the line was with dad, aka when would she have stepped in. She replied that she would have if he hit any of us. I have a personality disorder, nightmares, flashbacks, an inability to trust people, and other effects of both emotional abuse and knowing that she just stood back and watched... because he didn't outright hit me. (The physical stuff he did do is either healed or didn't leave a mark.)

Quote from: Edge on February 19, 2013, 04:56:55 PM
From what I've been told by people who work with abused people, only 3% of abusers ever recover. To put it into perspective, that's about the same as rapists.

That's what I'm afraid of. 
I haven't had many relationships, but the ones I did have I was abusive. Probably not as bad as many, I didn't land them in the hospital or anything. But then again, the physical part was never as bad as the rest.

I've had lovers and not abused them (though I still hurt them in non deliberate ways and broke their hearts). But anyone I was serious about got abused. I'm afraid this has something to do with why I've been so hesitant to date. 

The first (and probably hardest) step is admitting it, so you've got that part. Also, not dating until you feel confident is another good step. Learning what behaviour is abusive and what constitutes a healthy relationship is also good.
I've found that a lot of abusers are struggling with emotional stuff themselves, so I strongly feel that building self esteem would help a lot (aka making oneself strong rather than making other weaker). There are a lot of tips out there for how to do that, but I've found that the best is to learn about oneself (in other words, the self to be esteemed about) and ones values.

Quote from: Edge on February 19, 2013, 05:25:59 PM
The first (and probably hardest) step is admitting it, so you've got that part. Also, not dating until you feel confident is another good step. Learning what behaviour is abusive and what constitutes a healthy relationship is also good.
I've found that a lot of abusers are struggling with emotional stuff themselves, so I strongly feel that building self esteem would help a lot (aka making oneself strong rather than making other weaker). There are a lot of tips out there for how to do that, but I've found that the best is to learn about oneself (in other words, the self to be esteemed about) and ones values.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. 
Do you think males who are abused suffer as much as females? Seems they're less likely to identify the relationship as abusive.

Yes, but it's less likely to be reported due to differences in how people are taught to deal with emotion and probably shame. Also, there are less resources for abused men. One could argue that men suffer more due to the lack of resources and because women are more likely to talk about it and therefore deal with it, but I don't believe anyone suffers more or less in general in these situations. I think it's best to focus on the fact that all abuse is bad, there need to be more resources for everyone, and people of any gender need to talk about it.

Quote from: Edge on February 19, 2013, 05:39:00 PM
Yes, but it's less likely to be reported due to differences in how people are taught to deal with emotion and probably shame. Also, there are less resources for abused men. One could argue that men suffer more due to the lack of resources and because women are more likely to talk about it and therefore deal with it, but I don't believe anyone suffers more or less in general in these situations. I think it's best to focus on the fact that all abuse is bad, there need to be more resources for everyone, and people of any gender need to talk about it.

That's a good point. Wow, you seem really well-versed in this kind of stuff.

Thanks. It's from a combination of years of experience and determination for those years to end.

Quote from: Caleb. on February 19, 2013, 04:29:36 PM
I know it isn't as simple as just talking. and I don't believe all situations, particularly when the person is abusive, can be solved by talking. Actually, if someone is not listening to you when you are expressing your concerns and feelings, it's a good sign the relationship needs to end. I was more talking from the perspective of someone who is afraid to be abusive - how to be a good partner and not engage in behaviours that are going to cause emotional trauma to your partner.

This is coming from my own experiences with abuse...I was sexually abused by a woman for about three years during my teenage years, but I always thought "it's not abuse because she said she loved me." "It's not abuse because I've let it go on, a part of myself must care for her." I've also experienced emotional abuse from various people. But again, there was the "it's not abuse, they just don't understand." "It's not abuse, they didn't hit me." In order for me to truly comprehend what happened to me, I had to drop trying to decide if it was abuse or not. I had people tell me flat out I was abused, and I tried to label it as abuse, but that didn't help me. What helped was stepping away from that and thinking about how it made me feel, and how the dynamics played out.

In any case, I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like it was just something that needed to be talked through. I think talking can help in some cases, where someone may not be aware they are engaging in bad behaviour, but I definitely think that if someone is not listening and taking your concerns seriously it is time to step out.

Interesting points. May I ask to get a better understanding of this - what exactly is emotional trauma? Other than like grief over a loss or some other big occurrence like sexual assault or something.
What does emotional trauma entail? Can you cause emotional trauma to someone and not know it?

Quote from: Edge on February 19, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Thanks. It's from a combination of years of experience and determination for those years to end.

May I ask (it's ok if you don't feel comfortable answering) have you been in an abusive romantic relationship?

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 06:02:10 PMMay I ask (it's ok if you don't feel comfortable answering) have you been in an abusive romantic relationship?

I have been in at least three.

Quote from: Edge on February 19, 2013, 06:09:09 PM

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 06:02:10 PMMay I ask (it's ok if you don't feel comfortable answering) have you been in an abusive romantic relationship?

I have been in at least three.

So, you can tell me from the perspective of someone with an abusive partner? That's awesome. Especially from a male. They would tell me I'm hurting them but usually in a quiet, gentle way that unfortunately I did not take seriously. I guess I expected them to hit me over the head with it. 
And the few times they got angry and tried to defend themeslves, just escalated things.

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 06:02:10 PM
Interesting points. May I ask to get a better understanding of this - what exactly is emotional trauma? Other than like grief over a loss or some other big occurrence like sexual assault or something.
What does emotional trauma entail? Can you cause emotional trauma to someone and not know it?

Emotional trauma varies, but some of the symptoms are:

Quote
Emotional and psychological symptoms of trauma:

   

• Shock, denial, or disbelief
      Anger, irritability, mood swings
      Guilt, shame, self-blame
      Feeling sad or hopeless
      Confusion, difficulty concentrating
      Anxiety and fear
      Withdrawing from others
      Feeling disconnected or numb

Physical symptoms of trauma:

•     Insomnia or nightmares
      Being startled easily
      Racing heartbeat
      Aches and pains
      Fatigue
      Difficulty concentrating
      Edginess and agitation
      Muscle tension

Items in bold:  What I currently experience from the relationship with my ex.
Items in italic: What I currently experience from almost dying as a kid due to paralysis from the chin down caused by GBS.
Items in bold and italic:  What I currently experience from both experiences.

The items pertaining to my ex are slowly slipping away from hard work and coming to terms with myself and understanding that just because he was a prick doesn't mean it was my fault and doesn't mean I won't find someone to spend my life with.  My fear centers on relationships and sexual situations.  After repeatedly being coerced into sex [he guilted me into it] that I never wanted, I'm very nervous about entering relationships.  I'm scared the same thing will happen.  This, however, is slowly changing and I'm starting to realize that maybe I can find myself a good man and that just maybe I might be comfortable in sexual situations again.

The items pertaining to my paralysis...I don't know if I'll ever get over it.  My personality changed in the span of a couple of weeks at that point in time.  My dad likens it to a light switch being flipped because I went from happy to no longer happy.  I withdrew from nearly everyone, including family.  I still don't bond well emotionally because of this event.

Anyway...

I'm sure someone can cause emotional trauma and not know it.  My ex probably doesn't realize how much he affected my ability to be in a relationship and my ability to interact with others on that level...and he probably doesn't realize that he's the reason I can't stand sex [particularly 'straight' sex].  Oh well, though. 

Thanks for the detailed response Aaron Gabriel. Do you know if emotional trauma can be caused by one event/conversation, say if it was humiliating/hurtful?

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 06:50:38 PM
Thanks for the detailed response Aaron Gabriel. Do you know if emotional trauma can be caused by one event/conversation, say if it was humiliating/hurtful?

It possibly could be.  I suppose it depends on the person in question.  If it was a harsh enough event then I don't see why it couldn't cause it. =/ 

Also, there could be other things going on in a person's life that affects their resiliency.

Quote from: Aaron Gabriel on February 19, 2013, 06:56:39 PM

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 06:50:38 PM
Thanks for the detailed response Aaron Gabriel. Do you know if emotional trauma can be caused by one event/conversation, say if it was humiliating/hurtful?

It possibly could be.  I suppose it depends on the person in question.  If it was a harsh enough event then I don't see why it couldn't cause it. =/

Hmm. If so how long would it last do you think?

Quote from: Not-so Fat Admin on February 19, 2013, 07:07:22 PM
Hmm. If so how long would it last do you think?

I'd say it depends on the person and their "resiliency" as Edge put it.  I wish I could give a more concrete example, but people heal at different speeds.