Hey hey.

I wanted to know what you think about how I should handle this.  Clearly I do not pass very well. My avatar is evidence of this as is the event that I am about to describe...

Today I went to the mall. I had my three children with me. Some boys (around 13-14 years) started laughing at me. I could hear them snickering as I walked past and though they were speaking in a foreign tongue, it was clear to me what they were saying. They proceeded to follow us through the mall, laughing, pointing, walking up to me and staring.

I was not upset for me about this, though I was worried about putting the children through that and if I am honest, that is the one thing that makes me doubt whether I should allow myself to be me.

I was however, very disappointed that there were children who though that it was ok to treat people like this, so I decided to go and have a frank conversation with them about how they would upset people by doing what they were doing and I got up and approached them. They scattered and ran, so I returned to my family. They came back and started doing the same again, so again I got up and approached them. As they ran I continued after them. I walked for a couple of minutes but they would not stop and talk to me. I was deliberately being as non-threatening as possible as I genuinely wanted them to talk to me, so that they didn't do that again to anyone else.

This is the second time that something like this has happened to me and the second incident that has 'spooked' my children.

I don't know what I should be doing or if it is fair of me to put my children through this. I am just quite aware that I would be signing a life sentence for myself, that may not last too long, if I can't be me. I am trying to remain rational about that, but it is true that it has been bothering me recently.

I love the person I am seeing in the mirror recently. Sure, sometime I hate looking in the mirror and there is always a lot that I think sux, but it me, warts and all, rather than someone else and love that. (I don't have warts btw - it's an expression).

I suppose I really want someone to make me feel better about being out to my kids and in front of my kids (who have said they have no problem and actually really like it) and give me some advice on how to handle the looks stares and laughing, for the kids as they are my everything, and I am a big girl, I can take it (though I don't like it).

Steph
x

I would have done pretty much the same thing if I were in your shoes. Besides ignoring them all I can say is maybe you could talk to the mall security and see what they can do? I'm sure they wouldn't allow harassment.

I'm sorry that happened to you though. Kids can be nasty...

I know how you feel. Have you started hormones yet? Before hormones I didn't pass well at all. And people would stare at some would laugh but what's funny I actually started to get used to it. But now I know I don't pass but people don't really pay me any attention. Actually I think I get more people staring at me in guy mode than girl these days. But the funny thing is I wonder were they really looking at me as much as I thought? Or have I stopped caring if people stare at me so I don't notice as much? It does get better the more you go out and get used to being out and gain more confidence in yourself.

As long as there are uneducated adults, there will be their wretched spawn. 

Take solace in the fact that in 5 years, you will look stunning, and in 5 years, they will be ringing your sale in that same mall.

Consider smiling at them. I find that helps, when someone is staring. I smile back and try to show them the human inside.

Can you talk to your children about this? Ask them how they felt. How they might have dealt with it. Their opinions on why the boys were uncomfortable with you. On what they would do if they were in a similar situation.

This doesn't have to be something you are "putting them through".It can be something you use to help your children learn and grow and feel closer to you.

Kids like that have their own problems that they're insecure about and for whatever reason they feel like they need to take it out on others

Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 03, 2013, 07:46:23 PM
As long as there are uneducated adults, there will be their wretched spawn. 

I almost inhaled my Dr. Pepper when I read this.

You could always ignore them, or do something to embarrass them, such as asking loudly, "Why are you kids following me?" 

Quote from: Arch on March 03, 2013, 08:26:46 PM
I almost inhaled my Dr. Pepper when I read this.

"As long as there are uneducated adults, there will be their wretched spawn." - Hideyoshi

Right! I was thinking - Quick! Someone grab me some marble and a chisel!

I just smile and wish a horrible death upon them. 

Never had that happen to me but  I would try to ingore them but knowing me id probaly say say something to embarse them

I stare at them, with that look Moms have.  Disapproving.  If they start something, I will be finishing it.  Especially if there is a mall security.

Quote from: Ms. OBrien VT on March 03, 2013, 08:54:56 PM
I stare at them, with that look Moms have.  Disapproving.

Hey Steph, I personally think you handled the situation in the right way. We should not be expected to take harassment from ignorant people, regardless of their age. Plus to have harassed you while you were out with your children is a really low blow. Have you discussed things with your kids and heard their concerns not only about transitioning but also the harassment that they may be subject to as a result? There's a blog I follow written by a woman raising a gender non-conforming child that may be relevant, though not analogous, to your experiences today:

http://anotherdayanothermom.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/first-encounters/

Quote from: DrillQuip on March 03, 2013, 05:43:47 PM
I would have done pretty much the same thing if I were in your shoes. Besides ignoring them all I can say is maybe you could talk to the mall security and see what they can do?

Thanks. I can't really call security every time something like that happens though. Besides, they would all have gone as soon as they saw me approaching a security guard. :-S

Quote from: Heather on March 03, 2013, 06:38:13 PM
Have you started hormones yet? Before hormones I didn't pass well at all.

It does get better the more you go out and get used to being out and gain more confidence in yourself.

I am not on hormones yet. I think I will be OK to start in a couple of months. I am pretty darn confident though. I know I don't pass, but it only bothers me if it draws unwanted attention for the children.

Quote from: Hideyoshi on March 03, 2013, 07:46:23 PM
As long as there are uneducated adults, there will be their wretched spawn. Take solace in the fact that in 5 years, you will look stunning, and in 5 years, they will be ringing your sale in that same mall.

This is possibly true, but in those 5 years will I have indirectly subjected the children to 5 years of this?

Quote from: agfrommd on March 03, 2013, 07:54:54 PM
Consider smiling at them. I find that helps, when someone is staring. I smile back and try to show them the human inside.

Oh I do, I smile pretty much constantly and I smile at everyone who looks at me and there are quite a few! lol It's hard when there are, like, 10 teenagers stalking you.

Quote from: agfrommd on March 03, 2013, 07:54:54 PM
Can you talk to your children about this? Ask them how they felt. How they might have dealt with it. Their opinions on why the boys were uncomfortable with you. On what they would do if they were in a similar situation.

This is a good idea. I did talk to the children about it, but I didn't ask them what they would do. I asked them if they would ever stare are other people if they were different.  The boys were not at all uncomfortable with me, if anything they were massively confident to come up and mock me.

Quote from: agfrommd on March 03, 2013, 07:54:54 PM
This doesn't have to be something you are "putting them through".It can be something you use to help your children learn and grow and feel closer to you.

Well, that's a nice way of looking at it and that could work for the first couple of times, but as an ongoing thing, it will not teach them anything other than what it is like to be mocked and intimidated. In this case we were in a mall and I felt quite safe, but if we have been, say on the street and there were less people around, having been attacked by a group of lads some years ago, it would have been more intimidating.

Quote from: Anna Michele on March 03, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
Kids like that have their own problems that they're insecure about and for whatever reason they feel like they need to take it out on others

I don't think that they thought there was anything wrong in what they were doing. That is why I wanted to explain to them, but I couldn't. I would have felt a lot more positive about the whole thing if I could have talked to them and get them to understand their actions.

Quote from: Snickerdoodle on March 03, 2013, 08:41:56 PM
I just smile and wish a horrible death upon them. 

I know you don't mean that, but still, hmmm, I imagine some of them will think about it and regret it later, maybe not. Maybe that is wishful thinking. I find it hard to blame someone for being poorly educated though, or raised with no manners. They needed someone to tell them how it is.

Quote from: AnarchoChloe on March 03, 2013, 08:59:50 PM
Hey Steph, I personally think you handled the situation in the right way.

http://anotherdayanothermom.wordpress.com/2012/10/07/first-encounters/

Thanks Chloe and thanks for the link. It was a good read and I will go back there again :-)

Thanks everyone,

Steph :-)
x

Quote from: Steph21 on March 03, 2013, 05:30:50 PM
I was however, very disappointed that there were children who though that it was ok to treat people like this, so I decided to go and have a frank conversation with them about how they would upset people by doing what they were doing and I got up and approached them. They scattered and ran, so I returned to my family. They came back and started doing the same again, so again I got up and approached them. As they ran I continued after them. I walked for a couple of minutes but they would not stop and talk to me. I was deliberately being as non-threatening as possible as I genuinely wanted them to talk to me, so that they didn't do that again to anyone else.

Sadly, the experience my wife had as a juror says you took one BIG chance. Apparentl in this day and age of PC and how innocent and sweet children are, In NJ, if you as an adult simply "scared" a minor, you broke the law.

Gone are the days of kids being scared of grups. The tables are turned. THe kids rule and many know it far far better than the adults.

Geez Steph, I'm so sorry you had to go through that, especially with your kids. Teenagers are the worst. Stay strong girl.

Quote from: JoanneB on March 03, 2013, 09:49:18 PM
In NJ, if you as an adult simply "scared" a minor, you broke the law.

So really, In NJ, I would have broken the law even though I only wanted to talk to them, I was being non-threatening and in no way tried to scare them? Wow, that's nuts. Luckily then I am in the UK! Though recently over here a load of eye witnesses reported an incident where police physically and verbally abused a mtf in the street, so I wouldn't really count on much support. It didn't even attract any media attention as far as I am aware.

Here is a link in case you are interested.
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/london-police-accussed-mocking-sick-trans-brutal-arrest210213

There are many ways I handle situations like this but as you have kids you have to take them into account.
Sometimes I merely smile, sometimes I just ignore them.

If I was in that position I would have probably walked into the nearest store & asked them to call mall security as you were clearly being harassed, the youths would not have been any wiser about this unless they were close enough to overhear you, I would have then told security that you were being harassed & requested that the offending youths be removed from the mall, you have as much right to shop in peace as every other customer.
Mall security could have dealt with this without your kids being any the wiser

I have had offensive comments shouted at me by kids & have indeed walked up to them & asked if they have a problem they'd like to discuss.
One group had a young lad shout out "any chance of oral relief?" (he didn't phrase it that politely), my response was "only if you learn yoga", his friends fell about laughing & he didn't know what to do or say, he was more embarrassed by my response than I was by his rude question

Every situation has to be dealt with on a case by case basis & only the person dealing with it can decide what response if any is suitable, as you have to think of your own safety & the safety & security of your kids.

Kia Ora Steph21,

How were you dressed when in the mall? I mean were you wearing a skirt or dress ?

Even though you are confident and out going, perhaps all you need to do to reduce this kind of thing happening, is [for the time being] to dress "androgynously" ...
There are three reason for this
1) It's a breaking in period- getting others/strangers used to the gradual metamorphosis you have begun...
2) Once on HRT and the hormonal cross gendering process starts, you can gradually introduce more and more feminine attire...
3) This will reduce any embarrassing moments that your children have to endure [ They also will gradually get use to the change] 

Personally this was the route I took over an 18 month period...When out shopping with my children[I have four] my androgynous appearance would attract "questioning" stares but no hostile comments nor ridicule, [just confusion as to what sex/gender I was and how they should address me] and as time went on I was being 'femaled' more often than not... People naturally presumed I was the children's mother[this was back in the late 1990s/early 2000]

I know that when one has made up their mind and adopts a "This is who I am-Stuff the world !" attitude, it can be quite hard to keep the Genie in the bottle, but at times it pays to drip feed the general public...

Now you might think "well stuff this, no way am I going back into the closet" , but for your children's sake it might be a possible solution to your problem... Besides it not really going backwards it's just putting the brakes on and dropping to a lower gear...For the time being ...

Just a thought...

Metta Zenda