A little background is in order I think. Since junior college I have had a fascination with the deaf due to first hand experiences that left me otherwise befuddled. I couldn't speak. Now I am able to carry basic conversations although I am still learning more. The one big thing that struck me was Deaf culture and there actually being such a thing. Completely intrigued I began to dig deeper and found a wealth of knowledge.

I began to wonder about Deaf culture and transgender culture and how it intermingles. I figured this would be one of the best places to ask. I would love to hear any experiences you have had in the deaf community, stories, or friends, etc.

I know there are other sites that have information but I would like something more person to person I guess.
Thanks =)

One of my friends and his wife are deaf. Their three children can hear. My deaf friend and his wife never learned sign language; they communicate via lip reading. Yes, they both have very pronounced speech impediments - but it just takes some patience to become familiar with their speech patterns and you're good to go.

I was surprised to discover that they were disappointed that their children could hear. They felt that their kids were missing out on an important part of their own identities. I guess there is a deaf subculture and (some) people identify with it quite strongly, whereas other deaf people just try to live as 'normal' a life as they can.

Likewise, there are trans people who identify quite strongly with a trans identity, and others who want to live stealth. I can see some parallels, that's for sure. There is definitely a kind of 'deaf pride'.

My deaf friend has the most random life. Like the time he got lost in Amsterdam. He spent hours wandering round Amsterdam trying to find the hotel after taking a wrong turn. He finally managed to flag down a taxi driver but due to his speech impediment it took him ages to be able to convince the taxi driver that he wasn't drunk or stoned and to get him to understand where he needed to go. When the taxi driver finally understood where he wanted to go he hopped into the cab and they sped off. The driver took him 100 yards down the road, turned left, and said "Here's your hotel, sir!". Yup, he'd been just round the corner from the hotel the whole time.

His life is random like that.

I got very involved in the deaf culture when I was younger. I took a few sign courses at the community college and the woman who taught them had a deaf husband (rather unusual for a hearing woman to marry a deaf man but I can't recall her history-- such as if she had deaf parents). Anyway, I had a really good time with it all. I went to quite a number of events. Really am not that proficient but these were mostly older people and they were quite helpful and tolerant.

Yeah I feel there are some similarities (also I have been involved in disabilities activism and am autistic-- I think there are similarities there too). Deaf people do not want to be fixed and many of them are very opposed to being "implanted" which refers to cochlear implants which allow deaf people to hear. (Hey guys I am not making value judgements, just reporting). Many autistic people call normal people "neurotypicals" and don't wish to be cured either.

I have met deaf and autistic people who are not like this at all, they want to live more or less a "normal" life as they see it.


--Jay

Thank you for replying. I'm sure it's a different topic than typical but I got the itch to ask =)

There is definitely a deaf pride in a lot of deaf families. I never knew this for the longest while until I heard of the same situation with hearing children but deaf parents. They love their children all the same though.
A good friend of mine has a wife who is deaf and all their children are hearing. She did not mind that her children were hearing. All her children are also autistic and one with cerebral palsy. My friend and his wife are the most awesome people I have ever met and never take any crap from anyone. They even yell at doctors . But anyway, I came out to them and they both told me they really couldn't care less. I was their friend and if anyone ever gave me crap, to do away with them because I am me and no one can define that.

I don't intend to compare. I am just curious how the deaf respond to the transgender community, and vice versa. I have met a couple of transgender deaf people but I was never able to speak with them about it.

  One of my sisters taught High School ASL.  I did ask her about deaf culture and she said that they do have a different culture than others.  This is due to the more modern methods since the early 19th century that they could communicate with each other.  Before that they were stuck with a relative or friend to navigate through life and these people were immersed in with other people or on the bridge asking for alms.  There were very little of the hearing envy with her students as mentioned above because her students were well immersed into their school with the other students.

  I noticed one night in a restaurant that there was a group of about a dozen deaf people at another table next to ours with about the same number.  They were talking just like us but with ASL.  They were engaged in the same kind of lively conversations as us with one trying to interject with the attention signal the same as someone trying to get a word in edgewise between the dominate speakers that was going on our table. 

  Joelene
 

I dont know any deaf transpeople, one a blind one.
it been abit difficult because alot of plans and the comunety of transfolks are over the internet so I feel its hard to invold him.
-
one of my old schoolmates where ex-deaf.. like she could hear almost nothing and had learned sign languarge and went to deaf school, but now she got this machine thing so she was able to hear and speak.
I am pretty sure she knows im trans because her roomate knows and I talked alot to her, without any issues.
I dont know much about there culture beside that I heard that they tend to get filled with exitement for seen each other as they dont get to do it that often. I could imaginate the deaf culture being simular to other minoritys cultures like trans in ways. theres some simularitys in many small cultures I see that like: usunally your know the same places, your having words, or a way to comunicate which you have in common and dont need to explain,
everyone knows everyone(which also can means drama), and personally i feel people try harder to be friendy than when there not a minority.

Quote from: Natkat on March 06, 2013, 06:21:28 AM
I dont know any deaf transpeople, one a blind one.

That's interesting; I remember someone asked a while back whether blind transpeople have any differences in their experiences of dysphoria (because they don't see the usual gender cues that we see). Someone even queried whether it's possible to be both blind and trans for that very reason... but obviously it is possible because there is a lot more to gender than just what we can see.

I'd be interested to hear how your friend's dysphoria manifests, if you don't mind my asking.

I've heard that no one can be stealth around deaf people as they have become so adept to picking up non-verbal cues. Don't know if that is true--- but do know deaf people are very adept at picking up non-verbal cues.

--Jay

Quote from: aleon515 on March 06, 2013, 10:41:24 PM
I've heard that no one can be stealth around deaf people as they have become so adept to picking up non-verbal cues. Don't know if that is true--- but do know deaf people are very adept at picking up non-verbal cues.

My deaf buddy had no idea about me... but then again, he had no idea that he was just around the corner from his own hotel, either.

I'm actually Deaf in both ears and I am trans. (Well, severely Hard of Hearing to be technically correct but it's still considered deaf) Even though I went to mainstream oral/hearing public schools and I have been wearing hearing aids since I was 5, I never got involved with the Deaf community until many years later. So I got by reading lips and learning asl/reading body languages and what not. I learned how to read people really well lol.

There's definitely a pride culture in the Deaf community, they are very proud of their culture. Some Deaf people I have met are totally cool with trans people, and there is a few that are not. Just like Cis people. But most I know have been really supportive. I know many Deaf people that are LGB as well. There are definitely deaf trans people out there, but we are a rare and small unique group. 

The benefits of being Deaf and trans, is that if someone is talking about me behind my back, I don't hear them. ;-)

The downside, Voice training is extremely difficult since I can't hear well. And years of speech training is required on top of that.

Hi ho,

Deaf Transman coming through!

I am very proudly Deaf, and Trans*. I will address a few things that you all mentioned so bear with me!

Quote from: aleon515 on March 06, 2013, 10:41:24 PM
I've heard that no one can be stealth around deaf people as they have become so adept to picking up non-verbal cues. Don't know if that is true--- but do know deaf people are very adept at picking up non-verbal cues.

--Jay

It's very true that Deaf people pick up on non-verbal cues really well. One of my Deaf friends was sitting behind me at Church, never even saw my face and she signed to the interpreter at the front that I had a raging headache. I did have a raging headache that day, brought on my the vibrating hearing aid that I wear! What is more common than being outed in the Deaf community is that Deaf people generall KNOW if you are lying because of mannerisms. So don't lie to a Deafy, we'll usually catch you out! 

I will say this, everyone is different and Deaf people usually don't worry about your mannerisms in the same way. It's often "Pah, Pah, Pah." In other words, that's just that person's way. Until recently I thought I was cis-female, because that's what I saw. I got called Tomboy quite openly by my Deaf friends, and I hope they will accept me as Trans Guy Lorenz instead of Tomboy Girl Lori. I say hope because I have been homebound for pain reasons for a while, so haven't had the opportunity to be with my Deafy friends - or Hearing friends either - for quite some time.

One more thing about Deaf culture and physicality. As a general rule (there are, as with any culture, varying shades) Deaf people are highly physical. As an example, you could be in the hospital and have stitches. Hearing people will simply ask how you are and you might "brag" about how many stitches you have. Deafies, we'll come and ask how you are and count up the stitches ourselves!

Deaf Culture/Pride

It's a real thing and VERY big. There's Deaf Olypmics, Deaf only events and a very deep pride in who we are as Deaf people. I was raised in a Hearing family, my Deafness is a genetic fluke that is not hereditary, so I'm the only member of my family who is Deaf. My Deaf friends know this and a couple from my Deaf Church "adopted" me as their Deaf child, since they cannot have kids themselves and they knew I needed Deaf Family. Deaf culture is not as much about where you are from (My background is German) but about your experience and, yes, your diagnosis. I am one of the rare ones who can slip in and out between Deaf and hearing worlds and still am identified by other Deaf people as Deaf.

Implants

It's a really tough subject to even broach with most Deaf people. I have a minor implant, just a metal stud to attach a vibrating hearing aid to. Even though I made the choice to have it done, It's still commonly discussed as the hearing world who forced it on me since I got it done before I really entered Deaf world and I was opperating under the false assumption that I was broken and needed fixing. Given the choice today I am vehement that I will NOT go and get another, and had I the choice to go back in time and make the same decision? I would not have had it done even though it is a good thing and helps me hear better so I can manage in the real world.

I learned ASL in my teens and joined into the Deaf community actively in college. At 32, I have Deaf friends who will come to my help and defense if I ask, at the drop of a hat. My biological family doesn't understand my Deaf world, and I keep hinting they should learn to sign, since my hearing continues to deteriorate (as a kid my hearing loss was a moderate to moderately severe loss, now it's a moderately severe to severe loss and going down).

I've worn aids since the age of two. My family understands me being trans better than they understand me being Deaf and I've only been openly trans less than 6 months. Deaf culture is more foreign than being trans. That's sad.

One thing about Deaf X Trans is that since Trans is rare enough and Deaf is rare enough there are very few Deaf AND Trans people. Here I am though.

Weird, was just thinking about making a post similar to this.. though I likely would have never gotten around to it out of the fear of offending people(turns out that I offend a lot of people without realizing it, which has now become one of my many fears)..

I haven't had any direct experiences with the Deaf culture, mostly just a ton of research on my own about it since I had a huge interest in the culture back in 2013(mostly related to the fact that my mom made me and my brothers learn ASL when we were young, and my youngest brother's first language was ASL due to speech problems). But one of my questions was about Deaf and blind trans people, I was guessing that deaf trans people had to exist since they could see the gender differences, but I wasn't able to see how a blind person could be trans.. Ended up finding my answer within 10mins of searching on Google.

Anyways, got distracted with music and forgot why I was posting...

Deaf and trans can make it hard to figure out voice cues. For instance it is hard for me to tell if my inflection in my voice is moving around. Also I tend to put the accents in weird places of words.

However, I'm not involved in the deaf community as I don't know sign language apart from a few words. I feel like I wouldn't be deaf enough as my hearing loss is conductive. I can hear without aids in small one on one face to face interactions, but I have difficulty in large environments.   

Oh yes, the physicality startled me once. I was working in a group home and one of the other employees was Deaf. She grabbed me, almost a tackle, when I almost walked on a freshly washed floor. As an autistic person that was completely weird of course.
Obviously it makes sense.

At Philly trans health there is going to be a presentation on Deaf trans folks, but I can't go as I think it is the same time as my own presentation. I did meet Deaf trans folks two years ago in Philly. BTW, there was the most amazing trans woman interpreter I have ever seen in my life. I've never seen anyone so expressive.

One thing I was going to ask you, LoriLorenz, do you think the Deaf community is rather conservative? It was my impression anyway. But it has been years ago.

--Jay

Quote from: LoriLorenz on March 24, 2015, 10:30:47 PM
Hi ho,

Deaf Transman coming through!

I am very proudly Deaf, and Trans*. I will address a few things that you all mentioned so bear with me!
It's very true that Deaf people pick up on non-verbal cues really well. One of my Deaf friends was sitting behind me at Church, never even saw my face and she signed to the interpreter at the front that I had a raging headache. I did have a raging headache that day, brought on my the vibrating hearing aid that I wear! What is more common than being outed in the Deaf community is that Deaf people generall KNOW if you are lying because of mannerisms. So don't lie to a Deafy, we'll usually catch you out! 

I will say this, everyone is different and Deaf people usually don't worry about your mannerisms in the same way. It's often "Pah, Pah, Pah." In other words, that's just that person's way. Until recently I thought I was cis-female, because that's what I saw. I got called Tomboy quite openly by my Deaf friends, and I hope they will accept me as Trans Guy Lorenz instead of Tomboy Girl Lori. I say hope because I have been homebound for pain reasons for a while, so haven't had the opportunity to be with my Deafy friends - or Hearing friends either - for quite some time.

One more thing about Deaf culture and physicality. As a general rule (there are, as with any culture, varying shades) Deaf people are highly physical. As an example, you could be in the hospital and have stitches. Hearing people will simply ask how you are and you might "brag" about how many stitches you have. Deafies, we'll come and ask how you are and count up the stitches ourselves!

Deaf Culture/Pride

It's a real thing and VERY big. There's Deaf Olypmics, Deaf only events and a very deep pride in who we are as Deaf people. I was raised in a Hearing family, my Deafness is a genetic fluke that is not hereditary, so I'm the only member of my family who is Deaf. My Deaf friends know this and a couple from my Deaf Church "adopted" me as their Deaf child, since they cannot have kids themselves and they knew I needed Deaf Family. Deaf culture is not as much about where you are from (My background is German) but about your experience and, yes, your diagnosis. I am one of the rare ones who can slip in and out between Deaf and hearing worlds and still am identified by other Deaf people as Deaf.

Implants

It's a really tough subject to even broach with most Deaf people. I have a minor implant, just a metal stud to attach a vibrating hearing aid to. Even though I made the choice to have it done, It's still commonly discussed as the hearing world who forced it on me since I got it done before I really entered Deaf world and I was opperating under the false assumption that I was broken and needed fixing. Given the choice today I am vehement that I will NOT go and get another, and had I the choice to go back in time and make the same decision? I would not have had it done even though it is a good thing and helps me hear better so I can manage in the real world.


One thing about Deaf X Trans is that since Trans is rare enough and Deaf is rare enough there are very few Deaf AND Trans people. Here I am though.

Quote from: aleon515 on March 27, 2015, 03:09:43 PM

One thing I was going to ask you, LoriLorenz, do you think the Deaf community is rather conservative? It was my impression anyway. But it has been years ago.

--Jay

Ah, well, that's a question of community. As with any culture, there are people all along the spectrum. Deaf culture is no different. There are hardcore Deaf people who shun you the moment they know you even SPEAK, there are others who welcome you if you're even attempting to sign. Same for gender issues, there's gonna be a spectrum of who accepts what. Since it's a relatively smaller community compared to the general population there is often a more pronounced view one way or another in different areas. My community has always been very accepting of me as a late commer to my deaf heritage, but as trans? I've yet to find out.