Would you ever consider a girl like me? That is, voted the ugliest girl in Estonia by guys who've been around me. I get bullied, worse than you from what I've observed. I have a black eye right now, that I did nothing to deserve. And I cannot defend myself, even though I lift weights and eat lots of grilled chicken I'm still a tiny little thing with no muscle tissue to be found.
Attracted to men, but also butch lesbians, very butch ones that is. Would love to be treated like a woman, romance wise, think 60s.

Except I'm the opposite of the girl in those romantic movies I find crucial to my whole existence, looks wise.

My face is my biggest flaw, and probably my only flaw at this point, at least that's what my only honest girl friend has told me. She's very frank, so she wasn't trying to build me up because she doesn't do that, not like the other girls I like less because I know their speaking comes from pity, not from real thought. I've been told I'm brave, and gay guys have an affinity to trying to make me feel better when I go to their bars, so I know I'm good at social interaction. Sometimes they even buy me a drink Not that cash and presents are important to me at all.

Money is the last thing on my mind, I would love to make my own but I have trouble with education in the adult's high school here because I cannot go to classes cause of the bullying. The only thing I have left is maths, though, every other class I passed studying at home on my own and going to school only to do tests. It's tough to do that with maths, though. It needs some explaining and the textbook sucks.

Still, I'm doing my exams now and with physics, if the exam goes well and I'm as good as it as I like to think, and pass 12th grade maths I am good to go to university and get a job and live on my own. All alone

I also love writing novels and poems. The poems suck, but I think the novels are publishable(the literature teacher loves me ). The poems are just self-expression, and maybe someone awesome could pick them up and fit them into grunge songs. If there are any plain-looking grunge girls out there who have had experiences like mine. Not like I want money for them.

Enough rambling, I just want to see if anyone would consider me as a romantic partner. Please be honest. This isn't an ad, I'm not looking for internet romance, just honest opinions. And by honest I mean honest. I can handle it if everyone says no. My whole life has been everyone saying no, and it's not like foreigners are a different species, so...Go ahead and say what you think, please.....??

Quote from: Paige H on March 10, 2013, 09:57:50 AM
Would you ever consider a girl like me? That is, voted the ugliest girl in Estonia by guys who've been around me.

All women are beautiful.

The only people I wouldn't consider dating are those that are nasty to themselves or those around them.

Quote from: Paige H on March 10, 2013, 09:57:50 AM
I have a black eye right now, that I did nothing to deserve. And I cannot defend myself, even though I lift weights and eat lots of grilled chicken I'm still a tiny little thing with no muscle tissue to be found.

Can you report attacks like these to the authorities? I know police diligence and effectiveness varies from place to place but you DESERVE to be protected.

Quote from: Paige H on March 10, 2013, 09:57:50 AM
I just want to see if anyone would consider me as a romantic partner. Please be honest.

OK, Paige, here is honesty.

Every woman has beauty. You are a beautiful woman inside and out, though perhaps along the way you've lost sight of your beauty.

Every time you look into a mirror, say to yourself "anyone would be LUCKY to date me."

That's true, you know. As a human being, you have a lot to offer and anyone who cannot see that, DOES NOT DESERVE YOU!!!

Every time you get rejected or not noticed, remind yourself that it is THEIR LOSS. They are missing out on knowing a wonderful and beautiful human being. You wouldn't have wanted to spend anytime with someone who had such poor taste, anyway.

Then never give them a second thought.

And, Paige, don't let anyone physically abuse you. Report them. Every time it happens. It is a crime everywhere, and anyone who lays a hand on you deserves to be punished.

Good luck sweetie. Go show the world how much you have to offer.

This is kind of an awkward thing to answer since I don't actually know you, but hypothetically?
In my opinion, it would depend more on personality than looks. I don't know enough about your personality to say. Plus there's the age thing, whether or not we'd actually like each other, whether we would have mutual respect for each other, etc. I would be concerned about the bullying thing until I know how you handle it and how it has affected your self esteem. I don't mind being a support, but I want to be in a relationship because I'm wanted, not because one thinks I'm needed.

I hope one day you meet someone who respects and loves you who you are and I hope you respect and love yourself no matter what those dickwads say.
I agree with suzifrommd. Report the attacks if you can.

suzi, thank you for the positive reply

The police here in Estonia is very much different from the USA. The police car was right there, and trust me, it was reported. The men who gave me the papers to fill thought it was funny, in fact. I was called by a prosecutor who called up and as soon as I answered hung up. My call back was not answered. Maybe the guy hitting me has connections. With Russians, connections go far. Not that all of them are like that. But it's just not taken seriously.

Which stings, because one of the girls I know and went clubbing with was sexually harassed at a club and not only did she have the police to comfort her, but every guy around, everyone stopped when she cried.

When I cry, security guards laugh at me, as I'm groped and pushed around by guys. It's very prominent here, the different behaviour of conventionally attractive women vs those who are not. I don't have a habit of crying in public, but when I do, no man has ever cared to comfort me. The taxi drivers find it funny. Once someone THREW a napkin at me and yelled, what is your problem. What's wrong with your face? I wish I knew what was wrong with it, though maybe it cannot be fixed.

Edge,

this is not an ad, so you can just imagine I'm your age etc, and all the other stuff and go on the info I gave. Just imagine I'm someone who you met. And the needed vs wanted thing is kind of weird for me because... There is no difference in that for me. Not like I'm looking for a free nurse or someone to provide or something like that... In a relationship of equals, you need someone because you want them, because you find them extraordinary I'm an independent person with high self-esteem.

Ugly is THEIR word for me. Not mine.

kkut, I don't see her as harsh because I know her, I see her as honest with her thoughts. Which might be harsh, but she acts like a sweetheart despite them

I guess I should move, then.

With zero cash, but what have I got to lose?

The men here only treat you nice if they find you attractive... Then they cuddle you.

And I'm a very affectionate, cuddly person who longs for touch.

When my friend was cuddled by her boyfriend etc, while waiting to file a police report with cops who didn't laugh at her, I had to look away because I was so upset because noone has ever cuddled me like that. Except my mom but I'm not 6 anymore, so

I think that there's a knight in shining armor type waiting for you. Not to sound cliche and I know how everyone on this board hates gender stereotypes, but men are attracted to someone they can rescue. I'm more likely to want the less attractive girl who's crying and vulnerable than the hot bombshell over there who doesn't need me.

I suspect (don't say your age if you're not a legal adult) that the bullying is due to the youth of people you're around. I think when you're older, people won't act this way. Just hold on sweetie. It will get better.

Quote from: Paige H on March 10, 2013, 12:45:22 PM
I guess I should move, then.

With zero cash, but what have I got to lose?

The men here only treat you nice if they find you attractive... Then they cuddle you.

And I'm a very affectionate, cuddly person who longs for touch.

When my friend was cuddled by her boyfriend etc, while waiting to file a police report with cops who didn't laugh at her, I had to look away because I was so upset because noone has ever cuddled me like that. Except my mom but I'm not 6 anymore, so

Do you really want these kind of men in your life? There is so much better ones out there.

I'm 21.

And Heather, I want a man in my life, yes, or a butch or a transman. You see, I have met many more people of all different types here. And none of them have shown any interest in me that I would consider for a romantic relationship (anyone except feminine presenting people).

I've interacted with the geeky as well as the nightclubby. The gender-normative and the not-so.

So, you're basically asking me if I want someone who is a normal nice guy to anyone but me in my life. Yes I do. Because if I don't, I'm basically giving up on romance altogether by confining myself to only the feminine people who seem to be the only ones willing to look past my looks.

Noone else does, no matter how hard I try.

I mean, I spoke that I get bullied by the homeless. I've had beer bottles thrown at me in broad daylight on the street in front of a crowded mall. Plenty of all kinds of men around. Who rescued or comforted me? Nobody.

Conventional attractiveness is way low on my priorities. I want someone with a good sense of humor, smarts, someone I can converse with, and someone to share things with.

--Jay

Quote from: Paige H on March 10, 2013, 02:05:48 PM
I'm 21.

And Heather, I want a man in my life, yes, or a butch or a transman. You see, I have met many more people of all different types here. And none of them have shown any interest in me that I would consider for a romantic relationship (anyone except feminine presenting people).

I've interacted with the geeky as well as the nightclubby. The gender-normative and the not-so.

So, you're basically asking me if I want someone who is a normal nice guy to anyone but me in my life. Yes I do. Because if I don't, I'm basically giving up on romance altogether by confining myself to only the feminine people who seem to be the only ones willing to look past my looks.

Noone else does, no matter how hard I try.

I mean, I spoke that I get bullied by the homeless. I've had beer bottles thrown at me in broad daylight on the street in front of a crowded mall. Plenty of all kinds of men around. Who rescued or comforted me? Nobody.

I was saying don't settle for jerks who treat you less than how you deserve to be treated. I want a man in my life too but I don't want one who will treat me like crap! Its a big world full of men who are a lot better than the ones your running into.

Paige, I think it has more to do with the culture you live in than your actual physical appearance. I have become friends with a woman that works at a store near my house. She is from Estonia as well. When I first met her she was rather depressed and down about herself. We talked quite a bit, and she informed me of some similar treatment to what you are having while she was still living in Estonia. Now, she is happily married to a man she thinks is just wonderful. So, I really do believe it has a lot more to do with your country.

I'm femme, so I won't bother providing my input on if you are datable or not.

Oh, that would never happen Heather. I'm rather streetsmart, and bad treatment is something I'm thoroughly exhausted of.

That's probably why I'm so desperate for a relationship, but my desperation goes into lowering my "requirements" for a partner rather than lowering my boundaries. Those are firmly in place. Noone that would treat me badly would ever be able to be the person I cuddle with in bed. How could I even stand their arms around me after that kind of thing?

Brooke, it's a combination. When all types of men, online and off, laugh about your face, and people tell you you're ugly and you never get compliments, not even from your own family, it has to have something to do with it, as awful as that is to admit to oneself. I mean, I try harder than anyone.

But yes, it seems like men and lesbians abroad are not as caught up on that kind of thing, not all of them anyway. And the lawlessness doesn't abound the way it does here.

But I am hesitant to make a move, since I don't want to end up in a dangerous situation and I have next to no money by the standards here, and foreign living is a lot more expensive, even on the poorest level.

Quote from: Paige H on March 12, 2013, 08:10:33 AM
When all types of men, online and off, laugh about your face,

Do you have a birthmark or something? Or are 'disfigured' in some way? I'm just asking to better understand your situation.

I have something that requires extensive orthognatic surgery to fix, a procedure more severe than the usual repositioning of the jaw. I would need facial feminization for my brows as well, for the protrusion of my forehead and it pressing down on my eyes. My midface is sunken in and my jawline is too prominent. That's how much I can understand, anyway.

Insurance won't cover any surgical procedures for me, because it would be strictly cosmetic. My jaw locks sometimes, but that isn't enough to call it a disease. It doesn't even hurt, so I'd have to agree, it isn't a disease. I fell on my face when I was a child, too, off a tree, so that didn't help of course.

Paige, if I like you as a person, then yes, it's a possibility.

My current partner is a 41 year old woman who has had 2 children, she is not a 'classical beauty' by any stretch of the imagination. But she is beautiful to me, I love her for who she is..

Paige, you are a beautiful person....I can tell this by the compassion you seem to have for others.  I completely agree with Heather, the guys there that are treating you so badly are NOT ones you'd want to consider for a boyfriend. Don't ever lowerYOURSELF by dating someone that will treat you as less than you deserve.  You said you're 'desperate for a relationship'...I understand the need for that connection and contact with another person, really I do.  But maybe try to occupy yourself with other things; continue to work on YOU so that you'll be happy in your life whether you're in a relationship or not.  Being in a relationship doesn't always mean you get cuddled and they treat you well. I've become a much stronger independent individual without a relationship than I ever would have when I was married.  Continue your education, find a job that you enjoy and work toward your goals a little each day. My grandma always said you have to like yourself before someone else will like you. It sounds like you're an amazing person, paige, with a lot of qualities to like. I'm wishing you well.

What to say, my sister is the cliche gorgeous blond, and she's managed to live 50 years and only encounter losers, or inadequates or just didn't work out types. She's healthy beyond healthy, and it hasn't mattered.

My friend Dar just had a baby, she's been with her man a bit more than a year and just this summer married him. To be frank, she's a short large girl, unlikely to go to the beach expecting to turn heads. Her husband is a great guy though, and I think Dar proves your appearance doesn't get you a man.

We all end up ugly past a point in our lives, so if mr right expects to grow old with you, he better like you for more than the reflection in the mirror.

I am not at all pretty, my wife is no better than me, and I have had the pleasure of her company through 29 years (including time prior to 27 years of married). It hasn't been an easy life at all and if anyone called her ugly in my company, they'd be picking up the offender's remains with a sponge.

Paige you are only 21, let life give you a bit of time to get past the shallower years when most guys have idiotic expectations.
Use the next few years to find a way out of where you is and search in a better gene pool