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Back to gym?

Started by PHXGiRL, March 09, 2013, 12:46:34 PM

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Shantel

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 10, 2013, 12:37:47 PM
No what I meant was let's say you work out and build a lot of muscles, then stop and the muscles atrophy. When you start working out again, the muscles come back a lot quicker because they are always there under the surface just waiting to be worked out. See this: http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics/muscles-memory-strength.htm

I've been on female HRT close to 18 years and work out at least five days a week on the average and haven't built up any significant muscle other than get some rather stellar definition in my abs and lats from doing excessive crunches. I always used wuss weights with a lot of reps. Finally quit the gym and bought a water rowing machine for a ful body and cardio workout at home and am getting even better definition at the waist line than I had from three years gym membership. http://www.waterrower.com/
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PHXGiRL

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 10, 2013, 12:37:47 PM
No what I meant was let's say you work out and build a lot of muscles, then stop and the muscles atrophy. When you start working out again, the muscles come back a lot quicker because they are always there under the surface just waiting to be worked out. See this: http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics/muscles-memory-strength.htm

^^
This is what scares me.

I have been loading up on carbs trying to get layers of fat. I can tell its working because I have put on ten pounds in a month and a half. Its not on my belly but everywhere else. If I start running again like I was when I first started HRT or hit the gym I'm worried my boy muscles will come back. I

This was me prior to HRT. I don't wanna be a girl and look anything close to this :(

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tomthom

boy muscles and girl muscles are pretty much the same. just work on intense cardio to eat through the muscle itself and create a lean and toned look.
"You must see with eyes unclouded by hate. See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good. Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two."
― Hayao Miyazaki
Practicality dominates me. I can be a bit harsh, but I mean well.
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Joanna Dark

Quote from: Serena Lynn on March 10, 2013, 12:54:29 PM
^^
This is what scares me.

I have been loading up on carbs trying to get layers of fat. I can tell its working because I have put on ten pounds in a month and a half. Its not on my belly but everywhere else. If I start running again like I was when I first started HRT or hit the gym I'm worried my boy muscles will come back.

I don't think running or cardio or even light training with like 5 lbs weights would do it. I would be careful with strength training though with heavy weights. That's the key, heavy weights. I know I will be. But again the estrogen is a factor, but is it really worth the risk?
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PHXGiRL

Quote from: tomthom on March 10, 2013, 12:56:42 PM
boy muscles and girl muscles are pretty much the same. just work on intense cardio to eat through the muscle itself and create a lean and toned look.

Here is my other problem. I so want to but I'm vascular. My arm veins pop up like garden hoses. This is so frustrating. I want her curves but scared to get lean. 
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Nicolette

Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 10, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
You haven't seen any decrease in strength on E. It just seems strange but...what do i know.

I wouldn't know. I started HRT in '94. I only started heavy squats last year. 150lbs? That would break my back. But I don't think 150lbs is needed for some nice glutes. Weights don't touch any other part of my body for paranoia of gaining unfeminine muscle. But unfeminine muscle is sometimes overstated with T so low. I'm not sure it's possible to gain much. I reached a plateau. Lifting any heavier was causing joint pain.
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AusBelle

Once your T levels are at normal female levels you should not build any muscle other than lean muscle.  You will not build muscle like a normal male would, it's just not possible.  I've been lifting now for a few months and the only thing I'm doing is toning up.  That's a lot different than putting on boy muscles. I've been on HRT since 93/94 too.

This is an extract from an email a friend of mine passed on from Bodyspace.bodybuilding.com

"The primary concern women have when it comes to weight training is, "I don't want to get big or bulky." We are here to tell you that you won't! The hormone testosterone is responsible for the large increases in muscle mass seen when men lift weights. Women's testosterone levels are a fraction of men's testosterone levels. Normal testosterone levels in men are 200-1200 ng/dl while 15-70 ng/dl are normal in women. As you can see, men's testosterone levels are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than women's. Even if a man is at the LOW end of the men's normal testosterone range (200 ng/dl), he still has more than twice the amount of testosterone as a woman at the HIGH end of the women's normal testosterone range (70 ng/dl). If we look at the median or mid-range testosterone levels in men and women, men = 700 and women = 42.5. So on an average, men have 16.47 times more testosterone than women! It is clear that women do not have the hormonal support (testosterone) to gain muscle mass like men. Therefore, the fear of becoming big and bulky and looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger with a ponytail is unwarranted."

and...

" Now you may be saying, "I have seen some women bodybuilders who are very muscular and look similar to men in their build." The real reason they look like that is they are most-likely using exogenous testosterone injections and/or other anabolic steroids. When women use exogenous testosterone/steroids they may show signs of hair growth on the face and chest, increased muscle mass, a redistribution of body fat from a female pattern of storage to a male pattern of storage, deepening of the voice, and other effects. The point of saying this is that unless you are on exogenous testosterone or other anabolic steroids, you will not become big and bulky from lifting weights. This is not to say that you will not gain any muscle, you will, but you will not gain muscle like a man. Instead, you will become toned and shapely."

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Nicolette

Quote from: AusBelle on March 10, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
Once your T levels are at normal female levels you should not build any muscle other than lean muscle.  You will not build muscle like a normal male would, it's just not possible.  I've been lifting now for a few months and the only thing I'm doing is toning up.  That's a lot different than putting on boy muscles. I've been on HRT since 93/94 too.

That's my experience too. Actually, I was worried about my T levels being boosted from doing squats, so I had my T levels tested. T was 11.5ng/dL. I was a bit shocked. But I'm guessing there may instead be a very temporary boost of T that floods that system immediately after doing a set of squats. Still, if that's true, it's going to be miniscule compared to males.

I did manage to fill out my jeans just by doing squats and my butt did jut out far more than before. But it didn't do too much in regards to butt or hip width. A little though. My theory is that if you get your glutes large enough in the rear, fat is going to eventually have to be displaced to the sides. I still have hope for this, and a little help from some further fat shifting surgery.

Agreed, a muscle butt is far nicer than no butt at all.
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AusBelle

Quote from: Tesla on March 10, 2013, 05:34:20 PM
That's my experience too. Actually, I was worried about my T levels being boosted from doing squats, so I had my T levels tested. T was 11.5ng/dL. I was a bit shocked. But I'm guessing there may instead be a very temporary boost of T that floods that system immediately after doing a set of squats. Still, if that's true, it's going to be miniscule compared to males.

I did manage to fill out my jeans just by doing squats and my butt did jut out far more than before. But it didn't do too much in regards to butt or hip width. A little though. My theory is that if you get your glutes large enough in the rear, fat is going to eventually have to be displaced to the sides. I still have hope for this, and a little help from some further fat shifting surgery.

Agreed, a muscle butt is far nicer than no butt at all.

There is a small boost to T when doing squats according to this:  http://scoobysworkshop.com/squat-myths/

but it will be short lived and wouldn't affect us like it would with a normal male.

Since starting losing weight and toning up I've found I'm a lot bigger in the bum area than the top (boobs aside).  Up top I'm now wearing size 14 (Australian) and down below I'm still size 16/18.  My hips are standing out a lot more than they used to.  Have still got a fair bit of fat to lose, but it's working out very nicely.
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Nicolette

Quote from: AusBelle on March 10, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
I've been on HRT since 93/94 too.

It's always nice to meet someone of the same vintage in regards to HRT. Back then we only had USENET to help us make our discoveries, that's if you had a PC even. Feels like yesterday.

Quote from: AusBelle on March 10, 2013, 05:44:13 PM
My hips are standing out a lot more than they used to.  Have still got a fair bit of fat to lose, but it's working out very nicely.

I'm pleased to hear it.
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Shantel

Quote from: Tesla on March 10, 2013, 06:08:09 PM
It's always nice to meet someone of the same vintage in regards to HRT. Back then we only had USENET to help us make our discoveries, that's if you had a PC even. Feels like yesterday.

I'm pleased to hear it.

Been on HRT for 18 years myself, I work out and don't have big muscles because of it. Besides that a little T isn't the boogyman that trans woman make it out to be, a body needs a little if there is to be any libido at all.
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AusBelle

Quote from: Tesla on March 10, 2013, 06:08:09 PM
It's always nice to meet someone of the same vintage in regards to HRT. Back then we only had USENET to help us make our discoveries, that's if you had a PC even. Feels like yesterday.

Yes, it is  :)

I never got internet until 96, when I was booked in for SRS.  So my contacts on the web came from the old chatrooms.  Nothing at all like the forums of today, and full of ->-bleeped-<- ->-bleeped-<-s.   Kind of makes you feel old, but wise  >:-)
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AusBelle

Quote from: Shantel on March 10, 2013, 06:13:31 PM
Been on HRT for 18 years myself, I work out and don't have big muscles because of it. Besides that a little T isn't the boogyman that trans woman make it out to be, a body needs a little if there is to be any libido at all.

It's really good to hear others saying this. 
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PHXGiRL

My t-level last time I had blood work on Jan. 31st was 143 so it was a still a little high should I wait till it drops more? My E count was in the 500's. My endo cut my dose down because she said she would like to see my E lower
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Shantel

Quote from: Serena Lynn on March 10, 2013, 06:32:30 PM
My t-level last time I had blood work on Jan. 31st was 143 so it was a still a little high should I wait till it drops more? My E count was in the 500's. My endo cut my dose down because she said she would like to see my E lower

I'm assuming then that you are pre-op? If that's the case then you're on Spironolactone or some T blocker. It should eventually drop to the female range or below. To be honest, I'm not sure what that number is. Either way, I wouldn't let the numbers hold me back from working out, the muscles are going to atrophy anyway. Do you get leg cramps, like an occasional charlie horse? That's the atrophy in progress if you do, I had awful cramps for a time as I recall.
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PHXGiRL

Quote from: Shantel on March 10, 2013, 06:42:12 PM
I'm assuming then that you are pre-op? If that's the case then you're on Spironolactone or some T blocker. It should eventually drop to the female range or below. To be honest, I'm not sure what that number is. Either way, I wouldn't let the numbers hold me back from working out, the muscles are going to atrophy anyway. Do you get leg cramps, like an occasional charlie horse? That's the atrophy in progress if you do, I had awful cramps for a time as I recall.

Yes I'm pre-op. End of 2014 is my goal for removal. I don't get cramps. My neck as been sore lately though like super tight the other week I couldn't move my head left or right. That could be just from sleeping wrong? It was so sore.
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Nicolette

Quote from: Shantel on March 10, 2013, 06:13:31 PM
Been on HRT for 18 years myself, I work out and don't have big muscles because of it. Besides that a little T isn't the boogyman that trans woman make it out to be, a body needs a little if there is to be any libido at all.

18 years?  8) This gives me even more confidence. I think I'll push a bit harder and workout a little more often. I loved what it was doing to my thighs too. The feminine layer of fat hides any definition created. I do like a chunkier thigh personally.
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Shantel

Quote from: Serena Lynn on March 10, 2013, 07:06:21 PM
Yes I'm pre-op. End of 2014 is my goal for removal. I don't get cramps. My neck as been sore lately though like super tight the other week I couldn't move my head left or right. That could be just from sleeping wrong? It was so sore.

No doubt you had a cold draft on your neck when you were sleeping, that's happened to me a time or two. It will pass.
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AusBelle

Quote from: Tesla on March 10, 2013, 07:08:29 PM
18 years?  8) This gives me even more confidence. I think I'll push a bit harder and workout a little more often. I loved what it was doing to my thighs too. The feminine layer of fat hides any definition created. I do like a chunkier thigh personally.

Try The New Rules of Lifting for Women, or something similar.  Doing a world of good for me  :)
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JLT1

I just ran through a number of articles in Google Scholar on testosterone levels and weight lifting.  Most of the talk of exercise raising T levels goes back to a 1993 article where the subjects were youg men who had been lifting weights on a program for more than two years.  Yep, their testosterone levels went up after lifting.  However, in older men (25+) or in young men that were not extremely physically fit (and there were multiple articles on this), there was little, if any change.  Still, I wanted to know how long the elevation would persist.

I pulled this out of one article - "Anabolic hormones such as testosterone and the superfamily of growth hormones (GH) have been shown to be elevated during 15–30 minutes of post-resistance exercise providing an adequate stimulus is present. Protocols high in volume, moderate to high in intensity, using short rest intervals and stressing a large muscle mass, tend to produce the greatest acute hormonal elevations (e.g. testosterone, GH and the catabolic hormone cortisol) compared with low-volume, high-intensity protocols using long rest intervals."  I'm guessing that "adequate stimulus" would go along with fitness level and possibly age. 

It's 15-30 minutes of elevated hormones under conditions that favor elevation.  That probably isn't a problem.   
To move forward is to leave behind that which has become dear. It is a call into the wild, into becoming someone currently unknown to us. For most, it is a call too frightening and too challenging to heed. For some, it is a call to be more than we were capable of being, both now and in the future.
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