Within the realm of what's actually, realistically attainable for you, what would be "perfect" in terms of your own body and how people interact with you?

Now bear with me as I try to sort through some things (this may get TL:DR for some of you ... feel free to just answer the question your own way as I'm always curious what other people feel would make them happy) ...

It seems that a lot (probably the majority) of trans stories, when it comes to being FAAB and identifying as male, include transition. I'm assuming because what is NOT "perfect" is being seen as female in society. But there seems to be a range as far as how one feels about one's own physical body. My perspective is that this directly correlates with wanting to make changes to align the body with the mind. In other words, if you experience a lot of dysphoria about areas of your body, you're willing to do whatever is available to help change your body. In the case of what's available, I see pretty much 3 options: diet/exercise (not drastic, but can definitely help modify your body to an extent), hormones, and finally surgery. So when I say realistically attainable, those are the top things that come to my mind. And given that the later two can drastically change your physical appearance to male, you'd pretty much have to at least complete transition to the point of living as male (change name, gender market, etc.) or face some awkward consequences or be cool with being seen as androgynous, non-binary, genderqueer, butch or a myriad of other things that aren't 100% female. 

But what if there were other variables? This is basically where I'm stuck and struggling at the moment. I've given a lot of thought in the last week to why exactly I do not want to transition (mostly because I'm going to try therapy one more time for some of my issues relating to gender and I want to be prepared for that inevitable question, "If you're male, why don't you want to transition?"). Here's what I've come up with so far:

1) I don't want to have to drastically change my life so that other people can acknowledge what I already know I am.
2) I wouldn't want it to effect my career negatively. Also wouldn't want it to effect my long term friends or my family.
3) I wouldn't want it to effect my marriage (my spouse knows, I'm talking about legal issues).
4) I'm not put off by my name, so changing my name and going through all that would be a major pain when it's not one of my "triggers".
5) I don't want to look drastically different.

I know a lot of times people use that technique of asking you, "If you could just be the way you want to be and not have it effect career/life/family/friends, would you?" as a way of pinpointing what's holding you back form transition, but for me I feel that doesn't really work. The rest of my life I'm fairly happy with. My gender doesn't come up a heck of a lot in my career and it doesn't matter to my spouse. I have a small circle of friends who know my true gender and fully accept that. But there's still things that bother me (or I wouldn't be posting this or considering going back to therapy) ...

1) I do not like being referred to as female by people who don't know me. Sometimes I can let it slide and not have it get to me, but more and more it's just one of those triggers. Someone calls me "ma'am" and I just want to punch a wall.
2) I do not like having moobs. If I had $8k and no fear of surgery I would get rid of them.
3) I've come to the realization that if I had a bit more downstairs growth it might actually help my self-image (not that I'm all about size, it's just if I had a tad bit more it would really not be that far off from slightly below average MAAB).
4) I really don't want to age like a female. So far it hasn't happened, but I want to work towards keeping the muscle tone and all that. I know supplemental T could probably help a lot with that.

#1 on that list is kind of what has thrown me for a loop the last couple years (it's gotten worse over the last 2 yrs). Before I used to shrug it off a lot more because it's people I didn't know. I didn't have to interact with those people on a regular basis so what should it matter? And oddly enough, people I DO know (that don't know the big secrets that I'm trans and have some physical quirks) it doesn't bother me that they call me by my birth name and think "female" when they associate with me. I'm not sure if it's because my gender rarely comes up (and granted, in certain situations, like if I'm stuck in a group of women who know me and THINK I'm a women, it can make me feel way awkward) or if it's because I'm genuinely being myself and those people accept that self.

So I've come to think that my personal answer to, "What would be 'perfect' for you" would go something like this:
1) Just don't bring up gender, period. (how I can get the rest of the world of people who don't know me to do this and NOT transition I don't know)
2) Don't ever call me ma'am ... whether you don't know me or you do! (I guess the only approach to this would be to just tell people, "I'm not a ma'am" when they do it).
3) Go on a very low dose of compounded T cream (could potentially get additional downstairs growth over time, any changes would be very gradual so people around me probably wouldn't notice anything drastic, I would probably avoid the complications I had with injectable T, it will probably keep me from aging more in a female way).
4) Contemplate whether or not I could truly face chest surgery and how I'd go about it (I already schemed up that I'd tell my family, "oh yeah they found some lump or something and they have to come off!" but other than that the thought still terrifies me).
5) Continue on living my life as I have and see if these few changes are enough to make me more comfortable and happy.

I may just print out this post and take it to the therapy session

Quote from: insideontheoutside on March 10, 2013, 12:40:39 AM
So I've come to think that my personal answer to, "What would be 'perfect' for you" would go something like this:
1) Just don't bring up gender, period. (how I can get the rest of the world of people who don't know me to do this and NOT transition I don't know)
2) Don't ever call me ma'am ... whether you don't know me or you do! (I guess the only approach to this would be to just tell people, "I'm not a ma'am" when they do it).
3) Go on a very low dose of compounded T cream (could potentially get additional downstairs growth over time, any changes would be very gradual so people around me probably wouldn't notice anything drastic, I would probably avoid the complications I had with injectable T, it will probably keep me from aging more in a female way).
4) Contemplate whether or not I could truly face chest surgery and how I'd go about it (I already schemed up that I'd tell my family, "oh yeah they found some lump or something and they have to come off!" but other than that the thought still terrifies me).
5) Continue on living my life as I have and see if these few changes are enough to make me more comfortable and happy.

I think I say this every time I see you post, but it always makes me happy to see you posting. I see a lot of myself in your story (despite the fact that I'm definitively not male).

As to what would be perfect for me, it's very similar to what you've said.

• Not bringing up gender/not using female/feminine words to refer to me, whether I'm out to them or not. This isn't really feasible, though. The whole 'not being out' thing gets in the way. My coworker called me a good girl the other day (she's sweet and as old as my mom, so it's not as weird as it may sound), and it just grated on me.
• Go on T for awhile? Maybe. I've been on the fence about it for years. There are a few very specific slight changes I'd like to see; what I'm not sure about is if it would be worth the other, less desirable changes. I've gone into what those are on other threads.
• Having full erotic nipple sensation back. This isn't really feasible either, but hey, you asked what would be perfect.
• Either get my name changed or simply experience more widespread usage of my chosen name. My birthname doesn't really bother me, but my chosen name is so close to it and a lot more comfortable to hear.
• Have more people (remember to) use my preferred pronouns. I have a friend who was told I prefer 'they' before she even met me, and twice now she's asked me about my pronouns. It makes me happy when people think to ask, but when they have to ask more than once I get a little annoyed.

Quote from: Cain on March 10, 2013, 12:31:49 PM
I think I say this every time I see you post, but it always makes me happy to see you posting. I see a lot of myself in your story (despite the fact that I'm definitively not male).

As to what would be perfect for me, it's very similar to what you've said.

• Not bringing up gender/not using female/feminine words to refer to me, whether I'm out to them or not. This isn't really feasible, though. The whole 'not being out' thing gets in the way. My coworker called me a good girl the other day (she's sweet and as old as my mom, so it's not as weird as it may sound), and it just grated on me.
• Go on T for awhile? Maybe. I've been on the fence about it for years. There are a few very specific slight changes I'd like to see; what I'm not sure about is if it would be worth the other, less desirable changes. I've gone into what those are on other threads.
• Having full erotic nipple sensation back. This isn't really feasible either, but hey, you asked what would be perfect.
• Either get my name changed or simply experience more widespread usage of my chosen name. My birthname doesn't really bother me, but my chosen name is so close to it and a lot more comfortable to hear.
• Have more people (remember to) use my preferred pronouns. I have a friend who was told I prefer 'they' before she even met me, and twice now she's asked me about my pronouns. It makes me happy when people think to ask, but when they have to ask more than once I get a little annoyed.

Thanks, Cain. I think I have something valuable to say only because I don't have the typical trans narrative. Not everyone does but I rarely see people posting or talking about not fitting the typical mold.

I realized that making gender an issue or pointing it out (even in what seems to other people innocuous ways like saying "ma'am" or "good girl") really does grate on me. And it's done so my whole life. If no one makes an comment or issue about it, I feel like I'm just free to be myself. I felt that way as a child a lot because my parents generally didn't make an issue out of it. It's unfortunate that male or female (and no other options) are so ingrained in our society. I wonder how many other trans people would be helped just by not making gender a big issue? If you were able to just tell someone you're male (or female, or neither, or anywhere in between) and they could just go, "oh, okay" and roll with it that would be great, but I don't see that happening any time soon. There's been rare cases (Stu Rasmussen comes to mind) but even in those instances not everyone is 100% on board, but at least there's been some positive acceptance.

I think all we can do, is be pro-active when it does bother us. It's not an easy task, however. I may try to experiment with that more – just saying different things when I'm addressed in a way I don't want to be ("Please don't call me ma'am .... I'm not a ma'am ... I know you're just trying to be polite, but lot's of people don't like to be called ma'am ... etc. etc.)

I agree with a lot of what you say, as well.  Sometimes I think I lean towards the more androgynous side of ftm as in some situation, I don't mind being treated like a female (like when my male friends allow me to flirt with them.  I like flirting with guys sometimes and if I were to go completely male, that'd be awkward...). 

I do like when people just don't mention my gender.  I always try my best to use gender-neutral descriptors for myself (not a good girl/good boy, but a good kid, not a man/woman of many talents, but a person of many talents, etc).  When I do have to use gendered descriptors, I go with male ones (I'm king of the world!).

And I just hate pronouns, period.  I wish they didn't exist.  I would prefer to be called by male pronouns and, like you, I fully expect them from strangers and get annoyed by female pronouns, but I don't like awkward and asking people to use male pronouns creates a whole lot of awkward.  And gender neutral pronouns are about as awkward as you can get, so for me that's a definite no.

If I had the money for top surgery, I'd get it in a second.  And like you, I think I'd be happy with more of a low dose of T-- enough to drop my voice (a huge problem for me) and maybe get some growth down there.  As for body changes-- I'm pretty hairy and muscular already.

I also wish I could dress like a man at work without it affecting my job.  I wear male clothes everywhere else, but when I walk through Kohl's and see all those awesome shirt and tie combinations and sweater vests that I could be wearing to work every day...  That's where I get dysphoria like woah.

Perfect for me?
* have chest surgery
* be address as male and by my male name. My female name doesn't bother me much, but it's not even one of those names that could go either way, it's solidly female (while ironically my male name, Henry, could actually be both ways because people may think I say "Henri" as in short for Henrietta), so it wouldn't allow me to pass at all once people hear my female name, and my male names just fits so well and feels so right.
* I'd love to be  hairy beast, even down to butt and back hair, but I wouldn't care all that much if I wasn't hairy, it wouldn't feel "perfect" to not be hairy but I'd live with it (like I am now)
*to have a deeper voice
* it'd be perfect to have transition not screw up my career and scare away clients

Quote from: insideontheoutside on March 10, 2013, 12:40:39 AM
3) Go on a very low dose of compounded T cream (could potentially get additional downstairs growth over time, any changes would be very gradual so people around me probably wouldn't notice anything drastic, I would probably avoid the complications I had with injectable T, it will probably keep me from aging more in a female way).

I was thinking about what you were saying a few weeks ago about getting on a low dose of T cream/gel. It's more realistic for me I think, because of where I work and the economy right now. I just right now couldn't justify leaving my job where I am so sure (knock on wood) I am going to get hired FT upon graduation just because I want to transition when I know it wouldn't go over well before getting hired FT or shortly after being hired. Doing a low dose of T and just allowing the changes to come on very subtly over time I think will do enough changes to please me while not being all that noticeable, and it probably wouldn't then come as such a huge shock for everyone if a somewhat butch looking women comes out as trans instead of cute little tiny girly me as I am now would. And depending when I come out, that should give me enough time to get some actual work expericence as an attorney so I could move elsewhere or start my own place if I feel better leaving after coming out. Also, if it's even 1 year as an attorney, I'd already have my own cases at the firm I am at now, so the partners who I know it won't go over too well with def won't want to get rid of me or scare me off because they'd def wouldn't want to take on my work load or loose out on the money I'd bring in.

Quote from: Devin87 on March 10, 2013, 02:48:46 PM
I also wish I could dress like a man at work without it affecting my job.  I wear male clothes everywhere else, but when I walk through Kohl's and see all those awesome shirt and tie combinations and sweater vests that I could be wearing to work every day...  That's where I get dysphoria like woah.

I totally agree with that, I am dreading working FT again this summer because I'll be back to 5 days a week in heels, ladies dress suits and skirts.     

Phalloplasty right now and for everyone who knows to forget that im a transsexual.
everything else has been taken care of.

Perfect for me right now? I'm fine with my body. Wouldn't change it besides building my arms up a bit more, maybe losing a bit more of the gut. But that's not really transition related. I suppose I'd do with a bit more downstairs growth. Wouldn't we all? 
But that's really it. No bottom surgery desired or anything.

Social wise - I have this odd desire that everyone I meet would just automatically know I have a pussy and think nothing of it. Course I don't know whether I'd really like it or not. It's just a fantasy I have. I feel awkward being stealth and having everyone assume all these things about me. And I hate coming out to people and talking about trans related stuff. If everyone just 'knew', I could ask anyone out or have sex with anyone without having to have the 'talk'. They'd already know what they're in for and so they can decide in an instant whether they want it or not. No awkwardness.

Outside of sexual stuff, I just feel kinda odd. I don't think I have the right personality for stealth.

For me, absolute perfection would have less to do with myself and more with the world and society a whole.

For most people gender and sexuality seem to be black and white: a person is either male or female, gay or straight. As all of us here know, that's not the way it works though since these things aren't just black and white, they're on a spectrum. It would be nice if society could also realize this and progress to the point where gender and sexuality no longer defined a person.

That being said, I also have my own idea of personal perfection for myself which has nothing to do with how society views me. I want to inhabit a body I can be completely comfortable in and for me, that would be a male body because that's what I identify with and view myself as physically.

Up until really recently, my goal was to be 100% stealth. Now? I don't see my past as a big issue, and my eyes only look towards the future. I'd like to be stealth, sure, but as long as the past doesn't impede my future, it's okay if a couple of people know I wasn't born with the parts of a boy. Perfect for me is going on T and catching up to my peers, and having people look at me and see a definitive male no matter what I decide to throw on that morning.

Seriously, I want to wear clothes that aren't huge on me without freaking out over layering. Oh, and I also want to go shirtless when I feel like it. Bottom dysphoria would likely only cease if someone were to find a way to give me a biologically functioning penis, so I'll just leave that and focus on the upper half for now- though I'm most likely doing the best possible thing I can surgerywise downstairs when I'm older. Who knows? My goal might be reality given enough time.